Universtity of Ontario IT Posts Privilege Awareness Checklist Around Campus - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53186918]But saying "privilege" as a blanket statement is disregarding of every individual experience a person goes through.[/QUOTE] It's really not, though. If the aforementioned trust fund baby says 'Hey, I didn't have it all easy, I had medical issues and couldn't work for six months, but I worked hard after to make up for it and pulled through' does that immediately invalidate the fact that being wealthy is a huge advantage? Obviously not. Someone with the same medical issues but without the wealthy background would have faced greater difficulty and might not have been able to recover financially. The fact that a wealthy person has experienced personal hardship doesn't mean they have a realistic idea of what it's like for people who don't have the same advantages as them. You broke your back, I feel for you. I'm not just saying that rhetorically, like dude, that sucks. But it would objectively be worse to break your back when you're already disabled. Or to break your back when you're a persecuted minority. Or to break your back while you're a non-citizen. Regardless of what's happened to you, you at least don't have to worry about certain things [I]on top of[/I] the day-to-day struggles you face. Those things you don't have to worry about constitute privilege. It's not about individual experience and it's never 'you're privileged so you've had an easy life'. It's literally just about recognizing benefits you may have, irrespective of anything else that has happened in your life.

Just sounds like original sin under a different mask.

[QUOTE=gazzy_GUI;53187167]Just sounds like original sin under a different mask.[/QUOTE] It's not a sin, it's just understanding helping influences

[QUOTE=catbarf;53187034]It's really not, though. If the aforementioned trust fund baby says 'Hey, I didn't have it all easy, I had medical issues and couldn't work for six months, but I worked hard after to make up for it and pulled through' does that immediately invalidate the fact that being wealthy is a huge advantage? Obviously not. Someone with the same medical issues but without the wealthy background would have faced greater difficulty and might not have been able to recover financially. The fact that a wealthy person has experienced personal hardship doesn't mean they have a realistic idea of what it's like for people who don't have the same advantages as them. You broke your back, I feel for you. I'm not just saying that rhetorically, like dude, that sucks. But it would objectively be worse to break your back when you're already disabled. Or to break your back when you're a persecuted minority. Or to break your back while you're a non-citizen. Regardless of what's happened to you, you at least don't have to worry about certain things [I]on top of[/I] the day-to-day struggles you face. Those things you don't have to worry about constitute privilege. It's not about individual experience and it's never 'you're privileged so you've had an easy life'. It's literally just about recognizing benefits you may have, irrespective of anything else that has happened in your life.[/QUOTE] Well I get that the "trust fund baby" wouldn't understand the concept of what it's like to suffer with nothing. I'm not saying he would get that in this hypothetical. But it does sound like "well it sucks that you were injured/sick but it's not that bad for you". Just because things could be worse, doesn't mean it's going to play well with that person to trivialize it. Does the guy who's poor, black, and has cancer deserve more sympathy and help than the mildly well off white guy who also has cancer? Who's privilege is more important? I personally count my blessings on a daily basis. I have things pretty good. I've also had to work hard for that, and struggle for that. I get that my struggle COULD have been worse, but this whole talk of privilege basically says "What you struggled through is nothing, it's so much worse for other people, you're not relevant". I get people have it worse than me, and I don't like that. But when I hear that what I went through, what I have, and who I am is just down to privilege I'm not really sure how to feel other than "Can you not speak for me?" I'm not against the idea of recognizing where you come from, what you have, and why that's an essential part of who we are. I'm against using it as a tool to race to the bottom to see who has it worse, which as far as I can tell, is the primary use of it in pop culture and in mainstream culture. I'm sure that's not what "privilege" was meant for, but that's where it is now in the popular zeitgeist.

[QUOTE=gazzy_GUI;53187167]Just sounds like original sin under a different mask.[/QUOTE] that makes this unoriginal sin

[QUOTE=Lambeth;53184576]Isn't the Toronto Sun a tabloid?[/QUOTE] It's the shittiest newspaper in Canada, so yes.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;53187300]Well I get that the "trust fund baby" wouldn't understand the concept of what it's like to suffer with nothing. I'm not saying he would get that in this hypothetical. But it does sound like "well it sucks that you were injured/sick but it's not that bad for you". Just because things could be worse, doesn't mean it's going to play well with that person to trivialize it. Does the guy who's poor, black, and has cancer deserve more sympathy and help than the mildly well off white guy who also has cancer? Who's privilege is more important? I personally count my blessings on a daily basis. I have things pretty good. I've also had to work hard for that, and struggle for that. I get that my struggle COULD have been worse, but this whole talk of privilege basically says "What you struggled through is nothing, it's so much worse for other people, you're not relevant". I get people have it worse than me, and I don't like that. But when I hear that what I went through, what I have, and who I am is just down to privilege I'm not really sure how to feel other than "Can you not speak for me?" I'm not against the idea of recognizing where you come from, what you have, and why that's an essential part of who we are. I'm against using it as a tool to race to the bottom to see who has it worse, which as far as I can tell, is the primary use of it in pop culture and in mainstream culture. I'm sure that's not what "privilege" was meant for, but that's where it is now in the popular zeitgeist.[/QUOTE] It does sometimes feel like when someone comes home from a long day at work and is like "Man was my day at work long and hard" and someone they live with is like "Oh yeah? Well my day was longer and harder so shut up!" Like just cus one person had it worse doesn't mean that another person didn't have it bad, badness in the world is not a dick measuring contest, there is no "winner of having the worst day"

[QUOTE=Extronic;53189223]I always find it funny when students at some of the richest schools in the US or Canada bitch about privelege. these are people who dont actually understand what struggle is, however they just want people to feel sympathy for them because.... who knows. a bunch of losers if you ask me.[/QUOTE] Do people have to literally have the worst lot in life before they suggest society can be a little fucked up?

[QUOTE=Lambeth;53189368]Do people have to literally have the worst lot in life before they suggest society can be a little fucked up?[/QUOTE] I don't know, do they? This has been marketed as a binary issue from the get-go. You either have privilege or you don't.

[QUOTE=Talishmar;53189474]I don't know, do they? This has been marketed as a binary issue from the get-go. You either have privilege or you don't.[/QUOTE] I would think that the 8 options in this pamphlet would suggest that there are varying levels of privilege and the situation isn't absolute at all?

[QUOTE=Talishmar;53186854]Privilege is an important concept on a scale of entire societies. You can't apply it to inviduals as gospel because individual variance overshadows demographical variance.[/QUOTE] The issue is demographical variance [I]exists[/I] and not enough people are willing to actively recognize it. The idea is that if you were a straight/white guy living your life, and magically you became a gay/black guy, your life would very well likely get a good bit more troublesome. You'll face a few more issues than you would have if you were straight/white, and that needs to be acknowledged and handled. More often than not people will say "you don't actually deal with racism/etc, you're just whiney." This dismisses the issue and solves nothing. I'm not exactly cis, but I still live my life and appear as such. I may not ideally want to be seen a cis-guy, but I do realize that I get the privilege on not "looking trans." I'm not a worse person for it, but I do realize that someone who "looks trans" is going to have a harder time than me for it. [editline]9th March 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Talishmar;53189474]I don't know, do they? This has been marketed as a binary issue from the get-go. You either have privilege or you don't.[/QUOTE] No, they don't. What point are you trying to make?

I think that privilege is less about how better off a person is compared to someone else, and more so about recognizing the kinds of stigma/hardships someone has to deal with, to what degree is to be decided by how much less a person is able to fit in to these "privilege categories." I don't know much about privilege and its intricacies, that's just my takeaway on the matter. However I've learned a lot more by reading the replies on this thread.

One of the weirder ones is the "Speak english as a first language". I mean yes, that does give you a significant advantage, but of most privilege things it seems incredibly arbitrary. Am I underprivileged if I go to Japan, and do not speak Japanese as my first language? There are some arguments to be made in either direction for other stuff on that list, but the language one seems off.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53189675]Am I underprivileged if I go to Japan, and do not speak Japanese as my first language?[/QUOTE] Yes. Absolutely. Being a foreigner in Japan is, by all accounts, a pretty massive non-privilege due to cultural bias against foreigners. If a Japanese person told you you just need to work hard to be successful in Japan, while you've been busting your ass every day but struggling with the language barrier and rampant xenophobia, wouldn't you be a little annoyed? It's all contextual and I think people mistake it for something it isn't. Part of that is the awful way it's often presented, but part of it is, I think, a very reactionary and defensive response to the concept.

Why do these things ALWAYS skip the absolute most important factor of privilege, wealth? (This is coming from somebody with a fairly wealthy family) [editline]11th March 2018[/editline] It's such a giant factor that everything but being able bodies vs disabled totally pales in comparison

Privilege (and lets face it, its white privilege we are talking about here) is nothing more than a racist twisting of the idea of original sin packed up in the new social justice orthodoxy. Its use is simply to point to a group and tell them to shut up, don't voice your opinion you cant have one, it really is as disgusting as it gets. Anyone who is born in a western country or is lucky enough to immigrate to one should count their lucky stars yes, but denigrating anyone who literally won the lottery of places to live because they were simply born is unbelievable in this day and age too.

[QUOTE=phygon;53194371]Why do these things ALWAYS skip the absolute most important factor of privilege, wealth? (This is coming from somebody with a fairly wealthy family) [editline]11th March 2018[/editline] It's such a giant factor that everything but being able bodies vs disabled totally pales in comparison[/QUOTE] Because theres a lot more awareness and acknowledgment of that. People actually debate whether or not their life is easier if they're white or straight, but it's 99% accepted that life is easier wealthy. [editline]11th March 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Extronic;53194713]no but playing the victim card all the time and making a checklist to see if you're privileged is stupid. everybody has problems, you know.[/QUOTE] And some people have more problems than others soley due to their race, sexual orientation, et cetera. [editline]11th March 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Proj3ct_ZeRo;53194797]Privilege (and lets face it, its white privilege we are talking about here) is nothing more than a racist twisting of the idea of original sin packed up in the new social justice orthodoxy. Its use is simply to point to a group and tell them to shut up, don't voice your opinion you cant have one, it really is as disgusting as it gets. Anyone who is born in a western country or is lucky enough to immigrate to one should count their lucky stars yes, but denigrating anyone who literally won the lottery of places to live because they were simply born is unbelievable in this day and age too.[/QUOTE] So are you saying that life is not harder for black people, queer people, Muslim people, etc, and that they do not face discrimination for such? Because the idea of privilege is that you don't face that discrimination. To call privilege bullshit is to call complaints of bigotry bullshit.

Is it really original sin religious racism to say "life kinda sucks for certain people and it's not their fault". Also a lot of people in this thread treating the poster like it has 10 pages. They condensed and simplified a lot of stuff to make it fit a little paper, deal with it.

[QUOTE=01271;53195038]Is it really original sin religious racism to say "life kinda sucks for certain people and it's not their fault". Also a lot of people in this thread treating the poster like it has 10 pages. They condensed and simplified a lot of stuff to make it fit a little paper, deal with it.[/QUOTE] I am dealing with it. I'm calling out people who like to stereotype large groups of people for things they can't change.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;53184863]Residential schools, which I guess it's fair you would have no idea, you're not Canadian.[/QUOTE] If you're referring to the "forceably reeducate native americans into acting like white people schools" then the US did that as well. [editline]11th March 2018[/editline] Also I'm a gay transgender mixed race ndividual born to a refugee mother and a 3rd generation Asian father, and yet according to this poster Im privileged. Something tells me these morons didn't think this list through. [editline]11th March 2018[/editline] Come to think of it people in Guyana and Belize speak engish natively so I guess they're also privileged Honestly this poster is a shitty social brownie point generator for bargain bin activists. Privilege and the lack thereof do not separate purely along racial boundaries. There are plenty of "privileged" black people and plenty of "underprivileged" white people. English is also one of the largest languages on the planet, and as a result plenty of poor and destitute third world countries have English as a primary language, if anything this poster alienates foreign exchange students from aforementioned countries. This is an insult to both disadvantaged people and social activism.

[QUOTE=LegndNikko;53194978]Because theres a lot more awareness and acknowledgment of that. People actually debate whether or not their life is easier if they're white or straight, but it's 99% accepted that life is easier wealthy. [editline]11th March 2018[/editline] And some people have more problems than others soley due to their race, sexual orientation, et cetera. [editline]11th March 2018[/editline] So are you saying that life is not harder for black people, queer people, Muslim people, etc, and that they do not face discrimination for such? Because the idea of privilege is that you don't face that discrimination. To call privilege bullshit is to call complaints of bigotry bullshit.[/QUOTE] Are you saying that white people don't face discrimination? I think its pretty clear that it all depends on what region of the world your in and as mentioned earlier in the thread the most open and inclusive countries are the ones that give a shit about including people from other places at all! to be fair stuff like this make a clear case that multiculturalism simply doesn't work, if its always going to be "so bad" for certain groups why the hell should they bother?, I know why they should, because our countries have fought the hardest to make everyone feel as welcome as we can and anyone that comes to them has a chance to make a life for themselves which is right and just no matter your skin colour. And some perspective less university student children squawking about some perceived injustice whilst being some of the most "privileged" individuals in the best countries by their own definition is going to do a damn thing to improve any relations between any "groups".

[QUOTE=Amber902;53195122] Come to think of it people in Guyana and Belize speak engish natively so I guess they're also privileged Honestly this poster is a shitty social brownie point generator for bargain bin activists. Privilege and the lack thereof do not separate purely along racial boundaries. There are plenty of "privileged" black people and plenty of "underprivileged" white people. English is also one of the largest languages on the planet, and as a result plenty of poor and destitute third world countries have English as a primary language, if anything this poster alienates foreign exchange students from aforementioned countries. This is an insult to both disadvantaged people and social activism.[/QUOTE] It's a contextual thing. I'm american anglophone who currently lives in montreal. I barely speak any french, where a great amount of my classmates and peers are bilingual. I think they'll have better odds when it comes to getting a job just because of that. and anyway I don't think the concept of privilege needs to be absolute, it can be a spectrum.