Sex to boost film career is 'not rape': Weinstein lawyer

[Big D Duchovny]

[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war;53183410]I never said I didn't trust black people, I said I don't trust many. Not all black people are bad, but I never said I didn't trust all of em. I said I didn't trust MANY, key word MANY. Could've worded it better, but I was in a hurry.[/QUOTE]

I usually don't wanna go there buuuuut... yeah I'm going there. The vast majority of men are normal, happy, nice people. You not trusting "many" men is the same as saying the (vast) majority of men are (that is, not "many" aren't) untrustworthy or have nefarious motivations. That's simply not the case. Your inherent distrust towards men whether it's "most" or "none" is irrational.

[normanlamont]

[QUOTE=Daddy-of-war;53183410]

Asking me if I'm a rapist? Go fuck yourself dude. I mean how the fuck are you gonna go there dude? I get what I said might of not been smart, but you're a real fuckhead for that.[/QUOTE]

I don't trust men, soo many of them are rapists. Wait did you say I'M a rapist??? Go fuck yourself you piece of shit

[Egevened]

say, you are enthusiastic of receiving something, be it anything - an object, a job, a film role - and someone offers you have sex with them to obtain said something. even if it is your only avenue of receiving it, you have the option to decline. you do not have a human right to the wonder woman film role, you have the right to decline sex. if someone offers a hundred dollars for sex, and you accept, you can not call it rape after the hundred dollars are spent. the problem here serms to be people in general so entrenched in the idea of advancing their carreer that they do not realize they are being used and abused until after the fact. would you commit a crime just because your boss says yoi have to? why should giving your consent be any different? i’m not saying weinstein did not do anything wrong, or did not actively force himself on the victim, that is for the courts to decide - but the broad general sweeping statement here by the lawyer is correct.

[Big D Duchovny]

[QUOTE=Egevened;53183625]say, you are enthusiastic of receiving something, be it anything - an object, a job, a film role - and someone offers you have sex with them to obtain said something. even if it is your only avenue of receiving it, you have the option to decline. you do not have a human right to the wonder woman film role, you have the right to decline sex. if someone offers a hundred dollars for sex, and you accept, you can not call it rape after the hundred dollars are spent. the problem here serms to be people in general so entrenched in the idea of advancing their carreer that they do not realize they are being used and abused until after the fact. would you commit a crime just because your boss says yoi have to? why should giving your consent be any different? i’m not saying weinstein did not do anything wrong, or did not actively force himself on the victim, that is for the courts to decide - but the broad general sweeping statement here by the lawyer is correct.[/QUOTE]

I'm with the general argument that someone could potentially decide to have sex with someone else to advance their career and have it all be consensual and fine with everyone.

[B]But[/B] Weinstein has [I]a lot[/I] of heft in the industry, and while I'm principally "okay" with the above example (as in, I don't think it should be illegal), it is entirely possible that refusing Weinstein could ruin your career completely. As in, you're not having sex with him to get in Wonder Woman, you're having sex with him to not have your livelihood taken away from you. Basically, "Fuck me or you can never work again". That's entirely different and could definitely qualify as rape - if not in legal terms (IANAL, after all), then at the very least colloquially.

I'm gonna say how this turns out will depend on how explicit Weinstein was about it. Was it just a general knowledge that refusing him would ruin your career, or was he ever explicit about it (i.e., blackmail)?

[Egevened]

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;53183647]I'm with the general argument that someone could potentially decide to have sex with someone else to advance their career and have it all be consensual and fine with everyone.

[B]But[/B] Weinstein has [I]a lot[/I] of heft in the industry, and while I'm principally "okay" with the above example (as in, I don't think it should be illegal), it is entirely possible that refusing Weinstein could ruin your career completely. As in, you're not having sex with him to get in Wonder Woman, you're having sex with him to not have your livelihood taken away from you. Basically, "Fuck me or you can never work again". That's entirely different and could definitely qualify as rape - if not in legal terms (IANAL, after all), then at the very least colloquially.

I'm gonna say how this turns out will depend on how explicit Weinstein was about it. Was it just a general knowledge that refusing him would ruin your career, or was he ever explicit about it (i.e., blackmail)?[/QUOTE]

weinstein has a lot of pull in the industry, but he can not blacklist you out of life - you do not [I]have[/I] to work in hollywood. it’s the sad reality of things, and it IS blackmail, but you do not have to give up your dignity, you can refuse. if your carreer runs into a roadblock where your only way forward is agreeing to sex with someone who you do not want to have sex with, then maybe reconsider your avenue.

what i was getting at was that we need to educate people about this behavior itself. rape is a very serious issue but there are many places where other ppwer dynamics are in place before the raping occours, and i feel as if the majority of people are uneducated about how to handle those situations. it’s a sad thing that some industries have people like weinstein as roadblocks for many people aspiring to climb the ladder, and there are many things that can be done about it, but first and foremost people need to know they can refuse.

[editline]7th March 2018[/editline]

of course i think people attempting said blackmail need to be punished according to the law, before anyone gets the wrong message

[Big D Duchovny]

[QUOTE=Egevened;53183668]weinstein has a lot of pull in the industry, but he can not blacklist you out of life - you do not [I]have[/I] to work in hollywood. it’s the sad reality of things, and it IS blackmail, but you do not have to give up your dignity, you can refuse. if your carreer runs into a roadblock where your only way forward is agreeing to sex with someone who you do not want to have sex with, then maybe reconsider your avenue.

what i was getting at was that we need to educate people about this behavior itself. rape is a very serious issue but there are many places where other ppwer dynamics are in place before the raping occours, and i feel as if the majority of people are uneducated about how to handle those situations. it’s a sad thing that some industries have people like weinstein as roadblocks for many people aspiring to climb the ladder, and there are many things that can be done about it, but first and foremost people need to know they can refuse.

[editline]7th March 2018[/editline]

of course i think people attempting said blackmail need to be punished according to the law, before anyone gets the wrong message[/QUOTE]

Honestly, what are you trying to accomplish with this post? Yeah, these people didn't say no, and they wouldn't die if they did, but trying to blackmail someone into having sex with you is still either A: Blackmail if they say no or B: Blackmail and rape.

I guess I "get" what you're trying to say, but for many of those who have said "no", chances are it's just been 30 years of not having a career with no vindication until the Weinstein story broke. I just don't really see what's so important about letting people know they can say "no", because that in itself doesn't fix the issue (and chances are they know, but don't want to throw away a career they've worked hard for). Others will still say yes. The real issue that needs to be fixed is people like Weinstein existing.

[zukriuchen]

[QUOTE=Egevened;53183625]say, you are enthusiastic of receiving something, be it anything - an object, a job, a film role - and someone offers you have sex with them to obtain said something. even if it is your only avenue of receiving it, you have the option to decline. you do not have a human right to the wonder woman film role, you have the right to decline sex. if someone offers a hundred dollars for sex, and you accept, you can not call it rape after the hundred dollars are spent. the problem here serms to be people in general so entrenched in the idea of advancing their carreer that they do not realize they are being used and abused until after the fact. would you commit a crime just because your boss says yoi have to? why should giving your consent be any different? i’m not saying weinstein did not do anything wrong, or did not actively force himself on the victim, that is for the courts to decide - but the broad general sweeping statement here by the lawyer is correct.[/QUOTE]

These things aren't laid out like in carefully written internet posts when they're presented to women in the entertainment industry. There isn't an explicit guarantee that you are doing this to get the part. There isn't an explicit guarantee that you [I]can[/I] refuse without having your career destroyed. What there is, is a clearly unbalanced power dynamic where the proponent of the offer is the one with the most authority, the most money, the most contacts and influence. They have the final say on whether your entire livelihood floats or sinks. I can see the logic you're going for, but you are [I]only[/I] looking at the logic (with a heavy case of hindsight bias) and failing to recognize the emotional context. These propositions are entirely characterized by how terrifying, emotionally manipulative and scarring they can be (if they even come in the form of a proposition in the first place!!). Indeed, this dream scenario of a perfectly trusting, open and forgiving agreement doesn't sound that bad. It's also totally unrealistic