Internet outrage at HBO's next series "Confederate" - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Zaravan;52525353]The only Alternate History paperback book on the Civil War i've read was Guns of the South. And I'm not sure that counts since it consists of a bunch of Racist Afrikaner from the future using a time machine to give General Lee AK-47's. I like that book. Wait, the article mentions the 'Third American Civil War', what about the Second? Are we just going to skip that?[/QUOTE] That's the beauty of Civil War 3. It's so intense, it jumps right over Civil War 2.

[QUOTE=Zaravan;52525353]The only Alternate History paperback book on the Civil War i've read was Guns of the South. And I'm not sure that counts since it consists of a bunch of Racist Afrikaner from the future using a time machine to give General Lee AK-47's. I like that book. Wait, the article mentions the 'Third American Civil War', what about the Second? Are we just going to skip that?[/QUOTE] The pretext, I'm guessing, is a second civil war happened and ended with the successful succession of the CSA, and the show covers the events leading up to the [I]third[/I] civil war.

As long as the show doesn't empower racist hicks, it should be fine

[QUOTE=LegndNikko;52525180]IMO the difference is (to invoke Godwin's) that compared to Nazis (the Holocaust happened, that's the reality, etc), where you can't just say "I'm a Nazi," wave a Nazi flag, and fit in with society, while there are people out there who [I]still[/I] openly wave the Confederate flag, say things "I honestly think they should have won," and don't have these beliefs challenged as much. Sure, there's the "that's their opinion" clause, but we're talking about people who still openly support American [b]traitors[/b].[/quote] With all the genuine criticism one could make towards the confederates, being traitors always seemed like a weird one to me considering the United States are the result of rebellion against a bigger government in the first place.

is there a more meaningless duo of words than "internet outrage" in the history of the english language?

[QUOTE=Untouch;52525822]is there a more meaningless duo of words than "internet outrage" in the history of the english language?[/QUOTE] it's the one time in life where ignoring the 'problem' actually solves it

If you're going to get outraged about a work of fiction maybe you need to spend your time on something more constructive. Like going out and actually doing something for somebody instead of getting outraged for them, maybe. God, this is just like Polygon talking about CDPR being misogynistic.

This sounds like an awesome tv series I'd watch it.

[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;52525859]If you're going to get outraged about a work of fiction maybe you need to spend your time on something more constructive. Like going out and actually doing something for somebody instead of getting outraged for them, maybe. God, this is just like Polygon talking about CDPR being misogynistic.[/QUOTE] Take a few steps back. While I think criticism of this show is premature there have definitely bern works of fiction in the past that were blatantly sexist racist etc anf they deserve to be called out for that.

[QUOTE=LegndNikko;52525180]IMO the difference is (to invoke Godwin's) that compared to Nazis (the Holocaust happened, that's the reality, etc), where you can't just say "I'm a Nazi," wave a Nazi flag, and fit in with society, while there are people out there who [I]still[/I] openly wave the Confederate flag, say things "I honestly think they should have won," and don't have these beliefs challenged as much. Sure, there's the "that's their opinion" clause, but we're talking about people who still openly support American traitors. [B]These people still exist, in large numbers today[/B], and feel much more socially accepted than other topics. There's still a sizable amount of people who identify with the flag, and it wasn't until [I]recently[/I] that official U.S. entities stopped waving it along with the American flag. [I]However,[/I] I'm also all for alt history. I liked seeing Wolfenstein's "What if the Nazis won" imagery, and this could be cool, too. In fact, it could actually help to hurt people who still support it because it seems like it'd just portray it as if "if they won, things would be pretty fucked up."[/QUOTE] That's an understatement. Some US military guidebooks regarding domestic terrorism, have stated that on average, each state has about 20% of the population which would willingly wish to secede. These numbers increase drastically in California, Texas, Maine, ect. I would actually love to see a Wolfenstein-tier game which shows the South winning the American Civil War, but fast forwarding to the 1st World War, and having an American front.

We can barely even talk about slavery because everyone is afraid blacks will be offended. If you're that sensitive that you can't live with the existence of a tv show about historically accurate events, you're too sensitive to be on any kind of social media in the first place. That being said, remember when people tried to sue the RE5 devs because of racism because there were *GASP* black zombies in africa? lol

[QUOTE=Kylel999;52525973]We can barely even talk about slavery because everyone is afraid blacks will be offended. If you're that sensitive that you can't live with the existence of a tv show about historically accurate events, you're too sensitive to be on any kind of social media in the first place. That being said, remember when people tried to sue the RE5 devs because of racism because there were *GASP* black zombies in africa? lol[/QUOTE] This is just as much of a retarded oversimplification as what the people outraged by this show are doing

[QUOTE=Kylel999;52525973]We can barely even talk about slavery because everyone is afraid blacks will be offended. If you're that sensitive that you can't live with the existence of a tv show about historically accurate events, you're too sensitive to be on any kind of social media in the first place. That being said, remember when people tried to sue the RE5 devs because of racism because there were *GASP* black zombies in africa? lol[/QUOTE] Nobody is mad about this. It's the say way Lucifer, a show in which the Devil himself is a likeable detective in procedural crime drama, pissed off like 5 Christian mums and everyone else was like "eh". You can find people getting mad about Confederate the same way you can find people getting mad about Lucifer, by looking it up. Because the internet has so many people with so many diverse opinions you can literally find any opinion anything about anything if you look hard enough. That's a tl;dr of my earlier post. But I'm really replying to this: [QUOTE]That being said, remember when people tried to sue the RE5 devs because of racism because there were *GASP* black zombies in africa? lol[/QUOTE] I'm not saying I think RE5 is racist, but black zombies in Africa is a slight oversimplification, it was more about the stereotype of Africans themselves. Iirc, black zombies were effectively treated as their own class of zombies separate from white zombies, they all had spears and played up into cartoonish tribal stereotypes that didn't make a ton of sense.

[QUOTE]Iirc, black zombies were effectively treated as their own class of zombies separate from white zombies, they all had spears and played up into cartoonish tribal stereotypes that didn't make a ton of sense.[/QUOTE] I find it hilarious rather than racist and even more funnier with your explanation.

[QUOTE=Rossy167;52526242] I'm not saying I think RE5 is racist, but black zombies in Africa is a slight oversimplification, it was more about the stereotype of Africans themselves. Iirc, black zombies were effectively treated as their own class of zombies separate from white zombies, they all had spears and played up into cartoonish tribal stereotypes that didn't make a ton of sense.[/QUOTE] I'm not defending that in any way because holy shit but werent those (literally spear chucking jesus [i]christ[/i]) tribal zombies some kind of weird later game offshoot zombie? Like it begins with the RE4 style Ganados but they're in Africa and called Majini or something. I havent actually played RE5.

That whole "black tribal zombie" thing in RE5 was absolutely racist because it just played on stereotypes of black people. This show just sounds stupid. It could potentially be alright (Wolfenstein being a good example of how to do it right.), but the problem people have with the show is that it could potentially just be a jerk-off fest for white pride. Which is fucking bad.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;52526674]I'm not defending that in any way because holy shit but werent those (literally spear chucking jesus [i]christ[/i]) tribal zombies some kind of weird later game offshoot zombie? Like it begins with the RE4 style Ganados but they're in Africa and called Majini or something. I havent actually played RE5.[/QUOTE] You bump into the witchdoctor wannabes somewhere around half way through the game. After working your way through a village of Nike-hand-me-down-wearing "zombies" who love a bit of public execution of white folk (I vaguely recall a guy warning Chris that he both sticks out like a sore thumb, and the villagers even before plauge-virus mind control aren't big fans of outsiders). The "tribal" ones are in some weird ass floodplain area living in wooden stilted huts for extra "hey these guys are SUPER BACKWARDS". Basically just the Ganandos with a different name and more "tribal" behaviours. The game wasn't too bad about it but they could have toned down the witchdoctor dial a bit with those guys.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;52526674]I'm not defending that in any way because holy shit but werent those (literally spear chucking jesus [i]christ[/i]) tribal zombies some kind of weird later game offshoot zombie? Like it begins with the RE4 style Ganados but they're in Africa and called Majini or something. I havent actually played RE5.[/QUOTE] So I briefly played the game and watched some friends play it while just hanging out one day. There were definitely tribal zombies with spears. I just did a bit of reading and from what I can tell: They planned to have all/mostly black zombies because the game was set in Africa. They made an unintentionally racist trailer which caused controversy about racism. After the controversy they made many of the regular zombies white so they had a mix, this led to a larger proportion of the zombies that were black being the tribal zombie class. Naturally they didn't make them white because that wouldn't make any sense. Basically, I think they accidentally looked racist doing something that wasn't racist, then ended up actually looking racist again because of poor damage control. Oh and also their representation of African culture in general was very 80s moviesque, with all witch doctors, charity clothes and all sorts of weird backwards culture stuff that didn't make sense. It's pretty hilarious tbh.

[QUOTE=Mentlegen;52526688]That whole "black tribal zombie" thing in RE5 was absolutely racist because it just played on stereotypes of black people. [/QUOTE] Perhaps I was too stupid playing the game, but what was racist? The opening scene?

[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52526837]Perhaps I was too stupid playing the game, but what was racist? The opening scene?[/QUOTE] Mate, there are multiple posts above you detailing different reasons why people felt the games were racist.

[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52526837]Perhaps I was too stupid playing the game, but what was racist? The opening scene?[/QUOTE] Entire mid to late game sections are based around "tribal" stereotyped zombies. So literally just half-naked spear-chucking tribal black people. The early game ganados were perfectly fine.

Yes, lets censor people creatively and suppress their freedom of expression because of peoples feelings. Get a grip people.

[QUOTE=MR-X;52530036]censor[/QUOTE] I really dislike when people use this word to describe the free expression of personal offense. If someone's trying to get the show legally banned then that might be censorship, but it's not censoring the creators to express personal disapproval of their subject matter. Randoms on Twitter aren't censoring the TV show by complaining about it any more than you're censoring them with your complaints. Censorship isn't a word you can just throw around whenever you don't like criticism.

[QUOTE=catbarf;52530087]I really dislike when people use this word to describe the free expression of personal offense. If someone's trying to get the show legally banned then that might be censorship, but it's not censoring the creators to express personal disapproval of their subject matter. Randoms on Twitter aren't censoring the TV show by complaining about it any more than you're censoring them with your complaints. Censorship isn't a word you can just throw around whenever you don't like criticism.[/QUOTE] [quote]But some people are worried that the show will exploit the historical wounds of African-Americans, and they want HBO to put a stop to it before it goes any further.[/quote] Wanting to stop it is an attempt to censor someone or suppress them. Huge different in between saying "hey i don't like that and don't think it is a good idea" and "Hey you need stop and not air that because of feelings"

[QUOTE=MR-X;52530102]Wanting to stop it is an attempt to censor someone or suppress them.[/QUOTE] A definition of 'censorship' so loose and weak that it would put a letter-writing campaign in the same category as a government ban is utterly worthless. Telling a company they're being insensitive and asking them to stop isn't censorship by any common definition.

Can't make a show or movie or documentary anymore. Tear down the monuments and statues, even rip the flag out of museums. Pull your historically accurate civil war game off the apple store, stop selling Dukes of Hazard model cars, which by the way isn't even technically the confederate flag Fuck off you snowflakes god damn, it's history, and a modern day geographical symbol, not glorification

[QUOTE=MedicWine;52525310]I mean that's basically the US education system already. They were still doing the whole 'pretend the native american genocide didn't happen' thing and the 'civil war was about states rights, slavery was a background issue and totally not even a big deal by that point' spiel when I was in grade school.[/QUOTE] Which state were you educated in? In Massachusetts we were taught about the native american genocide and that the civil war was primarily about slavery

I love alternative history flicks, I'm pretty pumped for this. More importantly depicting slavery and other crimes against humanity in media can serve as an important lesson as to not repeat history by reminding us of those horrors. Those who would seek to censor unsavory elements in media because of some weird self-censorship complex risk depicting our history and society/culture as perfect, which is extremely dangerous. HBO also doesn't give two fucks what vocal minorities think, soccer moms and the church of Scientology couldn't stop them, this won't either.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52530600]Which state were you educated in? In Massachusetts we were taught about the native american genocide and that the civil war was primarily about slavery[/QUOTE] In Russian history books said that your North win because of blacks,industry and support from France and Russian Empire.I also believe that slavery was important but it was more about economy,territory and it was obvious that British will help South and use it against Napoleon and Russia later.

[QUOTE=Saxon;52530617]HBO also doesn't give two fucks what vocal minorities think, soccer moms and the church of Scientology couldn't stop them, this won't either.[/QUOTE] They are in the unique position that they aren't worried about hitting the maximum amount of viewers to sell ad space. They will literally do anything, as long as it creates and retains subscribers. Probably why so much of their content is more risky, the lowest common denominator isn't an issue. Also love alternate history. This has a lot of promise. [editline]1st August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=RichyZ;52530686]in texas we were taught that the civil was was mostly about states rights its somethin[/QUOTE] This is what I learned in SD. Slavery was just a side effect of a bigger issue.