You know I wonder if Icefrog coming to Valve made the cabal situation worse. Don't know how the culture of China would fit into Valve's style (note I don't really know chinese culture besides from that polidicks thread about china saying it's them or the united states, that they have a pragmatic view on life and death, and their more collectivist view and such edit2: oh and that thing where they wont help injured people out of fear that they would take legal action against them)
edit: so yeah, things that get done at valve are chosen by a group of backbiting gossiping infighting cabal bosses, guess the only thing they can agree on is their minimal communication policy
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;53087873]No Gabe absolutely could but why the fuck would he want to when he pretty much has 4 money printers going off in their offices for him to even entertain that idea of making another game albeit HL3.
There are people, right now who are trying to make a game from Marc Laidlaws Epistle 3 post, so don't tell me he can't smash together a solid team[/QUOTE]
Honestly it confuses me as to why he [I]doesn't[/I] want to make the game. Clearly funding the development wouldn't be an issue, he can poach the best developers and artists in the world to make it for him if he really wanted to. I can only imagine he's just afraid of it ruining his legacy or something by putting out a stinker Episode 3.
[QUOTE=srobins;53088000]Honestly it confuses me as to why he [I]doesn't[/I] want to make the game. Clearly funding the development wouldn't be an issue, he can poach the best developers and artists in the world to make it for him if he really wanted to. I can only imagine he's just afraid of it ruining his legacy or something by putting out a stinker Episode 3.[/QUOTE]
Like I said I believe he wants HL3 out, it's just most of the old Valve people have left and the rest of the people really, really, don't want to, especially the cabal leaders who get huge bonuses. (you get a bonus at Valve based on how much money your project makes apparently)
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53088003]Like I said I believe he wants HL3 out, it's just most of the old Valve people have left and the rest of the people really, really, don't want to, especially the cabal leaders who get huge bonuses. (you get a bonus at Valve based on how much money your project makes apparently)[/QUOTE]
Yeah but still, I would have to imagine [I]somebody[/I] working at Valve wants HL3 to be made, right? I mean put yourself in the shoes of someone that just landed a gig at Valve. It's probably pretty close to a dream job for them, Valve is pretty much touted as the holy grail of gamedev employers, you would think that everybody working there is thinking about the possibility of being "the guy that got HL3 made" or involved in it in some way. The idea that nobody at Valve is even remotely interested in working on HL3 just seems crazy to me.
[QUOTE=srobins;53088007]Yeah but still, I would have to imagine [I]somebody[/I] working at Valve wants HL3 to be made, right? I mean put yourself in the shoes of someone that just landed a gig at Valve. It's probably pretty close to a dream job for them, Valve is pretty much touted as the holy grail of gamedev employers, you would think that everybody working there is thinking about the possibility of being "the guy that got HL3 made" or involved in it in some way. The idea that nobody at Valve is even remotely interested in working on HL3 just seems crazy to me.[/QUOTE]
You're right, actually what I said was probably wrong and most Valve devs want to make HL3. But there's some major roadblocks.
-The cabal leaders don't want to have to give up control of their teams and work on HL3
-I don't think the cabals communicate with each other internally, devs in one cabal could have a completely different workflow than another, would be hard to make them all work in harmony
-VR is the big thing, the cabal leaders and probably average devs as well are passionate about it
-The absurd amount of pressure the devs would feel making it
-Grey's "they don't know anything" anecdote, giving duties to other employess, who then do the same seems like an enormous issue, whether they make HL3 or not
[QUOTE=residualgrub;53087882]I'm gonna be honest I didn't even know he had kids[/QUOTE]
I thought that's just what he called his knife collection
[QUOTE=Lambeth;53088042]I thought that's just what he called his knife collection[/QUOTE]
Fun fact, Gabe has a knife made from a whale baculum (Google it)
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;53087887]Your acting like Valve is run by mafia crime gangs and has cliques set up throughout the office that some areas are so volatile to go through, you need body armour[/QUOTE]
That's how workplaces end up becoming lmao. Have you ever worked retail?
[QUOTE=srobins;53088007]Valve is pretty much touted as the holy grail of gamedev employers[/QUOTE]
Maybe a decade ago, but complacency and laziness has conquered any sort of pioneering spirit that once existed at Valve and replaced it with stagnancy and a greater recession from the public eye in regards to actual game development.
They were done in by the very structure that propelled them to success because despite their mantra of always delaying to make things perfect,
they never once looked inward to see the inherent imperfections in the flat management style who's benefits started to be outweighed by it's flaws,
which was around the time that their monopoly became even more lucrative and microtransactions became an absurdly large source of income compared to effort involved.
[QUOTE=usaokay;53087791](hopefully Fury is [B]singleplayer[/B])[/QUOTE]
Somewhat ironically there was a game in 2007 called Fury. It was a PvP-only MMORPG :v:
[sp]Trivia time: it flopped hard because the studio only had experience with an RTS in the 90s, and train simulators inferior to most of the other titles on the market. Also it's based in my city, which may or may not be related[/sp]
I thought Cyborgmatt was Gabe's son
It's apparently really shitty to work in their open environment. There are no walls, it's just open space in their whole office which means that you can never have a "private" conversation to talk quietly with somebody about an idea without hearing others or getting heard by others.
There is no form of privacy in their offices due to these missing walls. They have a voting system where enough people need to vote to get somebody out of the company. Apparently it happened to people at Valve that worked harder than others and the ones in power didn't like that and wanted to have a more laid back atmosphere. So they used their influence to get people to vote them out of the company.
[QUOTE=Antimuffin;53088340]It's apparently really shitty to work in their open environment. There are no walls, it's just open space in their whole office which means that you can never have a "private" conversation to talk quietly with somebody about an idea without hearing others or getting heard by others.
There is no form of privacy in their offices due to these missing walls. They have a voting system where enough people need to vote to get somebody out of the company. Apparently it happened to people at Valve that worked harder than others and the ones in power didn't like that and wanted to have a more laid back atmosphere. So they used their influence to get people to vote them out of the company.[/QUOTE]
Source?
Played dota with Grey a few times, but always avoided asking the Valve related questions. Kinda interesting to see how he views Valve in its current state.
[QUOTE=Antimuffin;53088340]It's apparently really shitty to work in their open environment. There are no walls, it's just open space in their whole office which means that you can never have a "private" conversation to talk quietly with somebody about an idea without hearing others or getting heard by others.
There is no form of privacy in their offices due to these missing walls. They have a voting system where enough people need to vote to get somebody out of the company. Apparently it happened to people at Valve that worked harder than others and the ones in power didn't like that and wanted to have a more laid back atmosphere. So they used their influence to get people to vote them out of the company.[/QUOTE]
You're telling me that people that run a company decided to fire some employees for being [I]too productive.[/I]
I feel like information is missing or skewed, that makes no sense at all.
[QUOTE=phygon;53088383]You're telling me that people that run a company decided to fire some employees for being [I]too productive.[/I]
I feel like information is missing or skewed, that makes no sense at all.[/QUOTE]
What's so hard to understand, a new employee starts working hard, making all the "old guard" who are comfortable where they are look bad, so the "old guard" use their influence to make things difficult for the new employees. It's not unfeasible by any means.
[QUOTE=phygon;53088383]You're telling me that people that run a company decided to fire some employees for being [I]too productive.[/I]
I feel like information is missing or skewed, that makes no sense at all.[/QUOTE]
You need to not think of Valve as a company since it's not run like a company.
Lack of a power structure and not assigning responsibilites only works with a small team. A company the size of Valve has no future being run how it is.
They don't even need a traditional power structure. Assigning project leads to promising ideas and assigning people to a project to get it off the ground and make a proof of concept could probably work wonders. What they have now is cliques and cliques don't like people better than them.
That, and Steam needs to be split off into a separate, more traditionally run company, like I imagine it already is. You can't have network administrators for one of the largest content delivery networks on the planet doing whatever the hell they feel like doing. And I think it would need some sort of internal consumer protection oversight committee so they don't turn into comcast and end up with a horrible fall from grace where only the customers end up getting screwed over.
[QUOTE=phygon;53088383]You're telling me that people that run a company decided to fire some employees for being [I]too productive.[/I]
I feel like information is missing or skewed, that makes no sense at all.[/QUOTE]
Iunno, considering modern Valve's productivity, this looks quite believable.
[QUOTE=Teddi Orange;53088382]Played dota with Grey a few times, but always avoided asking the Valve related questions. Kinda interesting to see how he views Valve in its current state.[/QUOTE]
What's his MMR?
[QUOTE=Xyrec;53088378]Source?[/QUOTE]
One I found: [URL]https://www.geekwire.com/2013/valves-company-structure-felt-lot-high-school-employee/[/URL]
[QUOTE]But one ex-Valve developer says that the unique structure certainly has some glaring downsides.
In an interview on The Grey Area podcast, Jeri Ellsworth said that Valve’s company structure actually involves a “hidden layer of powerful management” that “felt a lot like high school.”
“There are popular kids that have acquired power, then there’s the trouble makers, and then everyone in between,” she said. “Everyone in between is O.K., but the trouble makers are the ones trying to make a difference.”[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=phygon;53088383]You're telling me that people that run a company decided to fire some employees for being [I]too productive.[/I]
I feel like information is missing or skewed, that makes no sense at all.[/QUOTE]
Have a look here:
[URL]https://www.neogaf.com/threads/former-valve-dev-talks-about-firings-productivity-cliques-bad-management-office.964018/[/URL]
even loose groups of friends have a network like structure of soft power that sometimes becomes apparent. there's a contradiction between the civil servant like work ethic of productivity and hard qualifications and the fact that you will also be required to manage your position in the social network to succeed.
in more hierarchic organisations there's just less strings to pull because some people have the explicit power to make decisions.
obviously if you don't manage to fit in and find your place in the system it will feel awful. just like high school.
edit: the behavior is basically human nature and it's not inherently bad unless there are some clearly abusive people involved. sometimes even the underdog just isn't able or willing to mediate interests with the other parties (especially when were not talking about high school but adult professionals).
[QUOTE=J!NX;53087812]Greyben[/QUOTE]
Greyn
[QUOTE=Davoc;53088423]What's his MMR?[/QUOTE]
I wouldn't have any idea, this was around the time Terrorblade was released. Though one thing I do remember is he would always play Terrorblade every chance he got.
[QUOTE=TheBorealis;53087752]-Grey uses the Steam Metro skin, thinks the default is awful and has tried to get Valve to improve it for two years[/QUOTE]
Fighting the good fight. God bless this man. :class:
[QUOTE=Cmx;53087846]What kind of psychopath eats chicken noodle soup for breakfast?[/QUOTE]
Good stock from chicken soup helps with various ailments. I think it's just Gabe looking after his health.
so this is the time you should take seriously the 'stfu my dad owns steam and he will ban you'
[QUOTE=sitoncio.dev;53088656]so this is the time you should take seriously the 'stfu my dad owns steam and he will ban you'[/QUOTE]
tbh he probably could do it himself
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