Marine drill instructor sentenced to 10 years in prison for targeting Muslim recruits - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Jim_Riley;52882520]It’s possible but my understanding was that a surprisingly high amount of Marines actually do want to become DI’s or Instructors themselves (shooting/range instructors being the most coveted as well as SOI instructors). It could be a combination of factors but from what my experience in the Corps taught me, “Peace Corps” or the peace time Marine Corps is suffering from hard chargers getting bored or monotonous routine. I went in 2012-2016, I was an 0341 Mortarman (81s Platoon specifically) and my unit had just come back from their combat deployment to Afghanistan (they were on the 6 month rest and refit before starting the next deployment workup when I arrived). So many came back with a massive chip on their shoulders for that one combat deployment and as it would turn out, the next 4 years of my service were met with training to deploy, train and patrol overseas on 2 MEUs only to come back and train some more and then repeat the same deployment routine again until my contract was up. Marines that are trained to see combat get bored. They get complacent and there’s a lot of “admin time” in the rear when you’re not out dropping rounds in the field (hey, everything costs money). I wouldn’t be surprised if this Gunny, POG or Grunt, suffered from that monotonous routine and acceptance that “kids these days” won’t see Afghanistan or Iraq like in 2003+. So they just go around with this power trip and ego and just make a fool of themselves. It’s fucked up that a kid had to die because of this disgrace and it kills me to see the kid’s picture before shipping to boot because you could tell he was excited to be a part of something special. Like I said, I’m so disappointed because despite some of the head types I met during my time, I am still proud of my service and what the Marine Corps is.[/QUOTE] Peacetime right after a conflict is usually the worst time for any military organization. Just ask the guys who were in back in the mid-to-late '70s. Or, going further back, the guys who stayed in back in the mid-to-late '40s or mid-to-late '50s. Right now, from what I'm seeing, we have a glut of officers and NCOs who joined when acceptance standards were low as hell (to keep up with the demands of the troop surge, though that also happened in previous wars due to casualty and attrition rates), and, however well or poorly they might do downrange, they aren't always up to the higher standard expected in peacetime. So now you've got an institution that's loaded down with deadwood leadership, is an absolute mess in terms of training, organization and equipment (because war is messy, and 10+ years of asymmetrical war puts different demands on an army than conventional war with a near-peer force), and is undergoing a serious loss of talent as the hard chargers get sick of the peacetime bullshit and don't re-up. Not the best time to be in right now. I expect it'll clear up in the next ten years or so however, provided we don't get sent to fight any wars in that time.

[QUOTE=Kommodore;52882007]We gotchu fam, that shit sounds insane. thanks for sharing. people should be aware of that stuff before joining.[/QUOTE] Thank you to you and everyone for the understanding response. I don't want to make my experiences out as universal, a lot of people I've spoken to went to BC and didn't get hazed until they died. Everyone gets hazed a bit, bleach games are common (though nowhere near as much bleach as was used on us) and you're going to hate your life no matter what, but most people I spoke to liked their DI's and got the experience of the break down and build up. Even in 3rd Battalion there's companies that get treated decently. We had a DI get attached to my group during the Crucible, the final three day training exercise, because you do small groups with 1 DI and my platoon didn't have enough instructors. He was a piece of shit, one of the most abusive ones I ever met, but I know a guy who was in the company after me who had him as a regular. He choked out a recruit and another DI tackled him and restrained him and he was later fired, so there is definitely [I]some[/I] accountability, but 3rd Battalion in general is always the source of these allegations and it's definitely still going on.

[QUOTE=WrathOfCat;52880948]So whos the other guy?[/QUOTE] Sgt. Michael Eldridge. Also being charged. There's a total of three being investigated (and more for hazing reports at PI in general): The guy who was just sentenced, another DI who distanced himself from the first one by spilling the beans as part of a deal for lesser sentencing, and then I think the guy responsible for these two is in shit for letting it happen. Eldridge is just taking most of the media attention because he's on the losing end of the prisoner's dilemma and getting charged first

[QUOTE=Bazsil;52883072][B]Sgt. Michael Eldridge[/B]. Also being charged. There's a total of three being investigated (and more for hazing reports at PI in general): The guy who was just sentenced, another DI who distanced himself from the first one by spilling the beans as part of a deal for lesser sentencing, and then I think the guy responsible for these two is in shit for letting it happen. Eldridge is just taking most of the media attention because he's on the losing end of the prisoner's dilemma and getting charged first[/QUOTE] Wait Holy fuck That was my senior DI that I thought had been fired. I guess I was wrong. Holy shit that hit me like a truck.

The military is pretty rough here in Denmark. While I was there, one of the DIs took me aside to tell me that I shouldn't follow him on Instagram and that he had blocked me. They're brutal like that.

Elridge might've gotten away last time, but this time his crimes have been made too public. They'll crucify him.

there will never be a shortage of ncos who get hard while power tripping because they know they won't get called out for their shit like they would in real life. funnily enough most of them are pussies and never saw combat, not to mention shitty leaders of Marines

[QUOTE=Bo!;52883436]The military is pretty rough here in Denmark. While I was there, one of the DIs took me aside to tell me that I shouldn't follow him on Instagram and that he had blocked me. They're brutal like that.[/QUOTE] Holy shit, man. I think I'd need to go to Behavioral Health after something like that, I don't know how you guys can stand it.

muslims should die we should skin them alive and throw them in a giant tub of salt [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Alt/Gimmick" - UncleJimmema))[/highlight]

Drill Instructor fucking Shmuckatelli.

-snip-

Why hasn't jimemma said anything? [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Callout post" - Asaratha))[/highlight]

Jesus Christ, I thought you guys signed up for military camps not labor camps

[QUOTE=Amplar;52884287]Why hasn't jimemma said anything?[/QUOTE] Anyone who read the link and all it's proceeding posts know my position.

[QUOTE=JeSuisIkea;52883311]Wait Holy fuck That was my senior DI that I thought had been fired. I guess I was wrong. Holy shit that hit me like a truck.[/QUOTE] Wonder if he still doesn't give a shit because he "did his time" Now he'll be doing the time he deserves

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;52884421]Anyone who read the link and all it's proceeding posts know my position.[/QUOTE] Not trying to be hostile here though, but what's your position on this particular case. This isnt run of the mill hazing

[QUOTE=da space core;52884653]Not trying to be hostile here though, but what's your position on this particular case. This isnt run of the mill hazing[/QUOTE] The original conversation was on this situation, to which I said: [QUOTE=UncleJimmema;51191347]I'm defending most of it. There's a point where blatant risk of serious injury is an issue, such as tumble drying a recruit. But chugging water until you puke? Taking a kick to your Kevlar? Getting made fun of for your race or religion? Throughout of bootcamp I got fucked with all the time because I looked like I was stoned. I got to be "towlie the pot smoking towel" the whole time and had to say "wanna get high" on command. When the DI's found out I was an Atheist I got ripped into and forced to go to church on two occasions. I didn't give a fuck, be cause it's all mind games. All of it. Thats the real test. The physical part of boot is easy, it's the mind games that either break you or give you the mindset you need to be a Marine. [/QUOTE] Boot camp is designed to try to break you. If there's something that sticks out the DI's are going to pick at it whether its your race, religion, ethnicity, height, you name it. As I previously stated there's a point where things have gone too far if it can lead to serious physical harm.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;52884708]The original conversation was on this situation, to which I said: Boot camp is designed to try to break you. If there's something that sticks out the DI's are going to pick at it whether its your race, religion, ethnicity, height, you name it. As I previously stated there's a point where things have gone too far if it can lead to serious physical harm.[/QUOTE] Sounds like justification of blatant and crule abuse to me. Not exactly the hill I'd want to die on defending tbh.

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;52884720]Sounds like justification of blatant and crule abuse to me. Not exactly the hill I'd want to die on defending tbh.[/QUOTE] And that's just fine. I'm assuming you didn't experience that, I did. We all take from our bootcamp experiences differently, and I'm entitled to my opinion how it should be. Bootcamp was exactly what I expected, and it did for me what I wanted it to. If you don't like that that's fine by me.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;52884727]And that's just fine. I'm assuming you didn't experience that, I did. We all take from our bootcamp experiences differently, and I'm entitled to my opinion how it should be. Bootcamp was exactly what I expected, and it did for me what I wanted it to. If you don't like that that's fine by me.[/QUOTE] Never been in the military, but as a civilian this whole event is astonishing and heinous to say the very least.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;52884708]The original conversation was on this situation, to which I said: Boot camp is designed to try to break you. If there's something that sticks out the DI's are going to pick at it whether its your race, religion, ethnicity, height, you name it. As I previously stated there's a point where things have gone too far if it can lead to serious physical harm.[/QUOTE] I don't give a fuck how decorated you can be as a Marine. But it's pretty fucking disgusting to be a grown as man beating up on kids who are barely out of high school or into their 20s when you yourself are around your mid 30's having been on multiple deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan. This easily was the best lesson I learned in bootcamp because it at the basic level taught me that even if they don't rate, they don't deserve to be fucked over. I can't even remotely compared my experience to JeSuisIkea's despite him graduating after my platoon and actually know him. My DIs were literally hardass but they sure as fuck didn't give us this type of treatment save for just the a-typical bootcamp stories of the DIs messing with them. Hell From Jes' own company there was another DI I know of that ran around poured bleach in everyone's shit including his other DIs.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;52884708]The original conversation was on this situation, to which I said: Boot camp is designed to try to break you. If there's something that sticks out the DI's are going to pick at it whether its your race, religion, ethnicity, height, you name it. As I previously stated there's a point where things have gone too far if it can lead to serious physical harm.[/QUOTE] I'm glad you're posting this here, alongside all the horrible shit that this attitude causes, so that it's clear to everyone just how detached from reality you are

I am still against the behaviors described in this article, but I completely get why basic training for Marines is so extraordinary and needed for conditioning. Fighting in wars and doing tasks under pressure as a skill is simply not going to be achieved without pushing them to their absolute limits, and it is not for everyone, clearly. I wouldn't know what is the balance between breaking someone or building them into a Marine, but I do understand that wanting to be a frontline soldier shouldn't be a place to apply social norms. I just think people shouldn't knock off UJ so easily and see him detached. He clearly is able to discuss on a forum often critical on the military quite well as a moderator, and his insight/others is invaluable to extreme situations only a few experience. And it seems quite clear that boot camp for marines varies from person to person on if the treatment was warranted. Also seems like the specific DI plays a huge role.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52884828]I'm glad you're posting this here, alongside all the horrible shit that this attitude causes, so that it's clear to everyone just how detached from reality you are[/QUOTE] You know, [URL="http://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/feb/15/camp-pendleton-marine-gets-life-sentence-killing-f/"]when your friend dies [/URL] at the hands of someone who never should have made it through boot camp in the first place but skated through on a hazing card it's hard to be sympathetic. When your [URL="http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/military/sdut-osprey-crash-at-sea-command-investigation-2015jun30-story.html"]old bunk mate dies due to negligence[/URL], not unlike falling asleep on your post in bootcamp, its hard to be sympathetic.

[QUOTE=Zukriuchen;52884828]I'm glad you're posting this here, alongside all the horrible shit that this attitude causes, so that it's clear to everyone just how detached from reality you are[/QUOTE] He's made clear he understands when shit like this goes too far vs run of the mill dumbass name-calling and chugging water and stuff. I'd hardly call him detached from reality, I think you're being a bit hyperbolic and misreading his post.

As someone who's from a foreign military (Swedish Armed Forces, Homeguard) I will never understand the boot camp behaviour some militaries enforce. To me breaking down recruits in order to toughen them don't yield the optimal results wanted. Sure, you'll be tough mentally. But at what cost? You will always be in a Fight or Flight-mode, the system encourages you to be an aggressive drone, a warmachine. Citizens of the country you protect don't need hyperlethal terminators, they need people with the right knowledge and motivation to protect them. Citizens of other countries regularly abused by terrorists and/or dictators don't need redneck racist assholes, they need people that can shield and protect them, people that value democracy. The only time I heard an officer yell angrily during bootcamp was when one of the guys had left his weapon unattended. What happened afterwards? We had a talk, the entire unit just sat down and talked about the importance of always watching our pals. To me the real strength is found when you realize that you're riding this train all the way to the station. Not because you survived forced bullying. I got my strength during my medic training. After tending to a wounded for two and a half hours while under enemy fire I realized that I could actually do this. I wanted to do this. Officers and DIs should be mentors, not boogeymen. They should be like your parents and teach you everything you need to know plus a little more. When you reach the end and take the soldier's oath you should feel proud, not exhausted because you went through hell.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;52884934]You know, [URL="http://www.kpbs.org/news/2013/feb/15/camp-pendleton-marine-gets-life-sentence-killing-f/"]when your friend dies [/URL] at the hands of someone who never should have made it through boot camp in the first place but skated through on a hazing card it's hard to be sympathetic. When your [URL="http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/military/sdut-osprey-crash-at-sea-command-investigation-2015jun30-story.html"]old bunk mate dies due to negligence[/URL], not unlike falling asleep on your post in bootcamp, its hard to be sympathetic.[/QUOTE] You're putting me in an awkward position, man. Anything I say against this makes me feel like I'm denying the importance that these events had in your life. I don't see how this is relevant to our criticisms of the system (and now I have to clear up that I'm not disregarding the memory of your friends just because I'm disregarding this as an argument). I can see how this would lead you to conflating a hatred of negligent people with faith in the system (and now I have to clear up that no, I don't know how your life experiences shaped you better than you do). There's just too much emotional baggage here for me to maneuver around, and I can't really tackle this without sounding like a massive asshole

Not justifying what these shitbags did, but I have to agree with Uncle J, to a point. I draw the line at physical contact and mocking a person's religion. Beyond that? As far as I'm concerned, as long as they're not breaking you or fucking up your training, they can go crazy. Physical punishment until the walls sweat and the floor looks like it's been rained on. Getting in your face and screaming at you like they're ready to tear your arms out of their sockets. Waking you up at 3AM and making you PT until wakeup because the dipshit on fireguard fucked up. You know, standard Basic stuff. Don't want to put up with it? No problem, the military isn't for everyone. Fact of the matter is, the job of basic training is to prepare you for combat. From FM 3-21.8: [QUOTE]Characterized by extreme violence and physiological shock, close combat is callous and unforgiving. Its dimensions are measured in minutes and meters, and its consequences are final. Close combat stresses every aspect of the physical, mental, and spiritual features of the human dimension.[/QUOTE] Training is brutal for a reason, this is real shit. It's an extremely competitive job, and your rival is the guy on the other side of the fight. You have to do everything humanly possible to be better than him. You need to be tougher, faster, stronger and smarter than him. Otherwise, [i]he will fucking kill you.[/i]

Is there any evidence that things need to be this way to toughen up the recruits or is it just ""common sense""?

I dunno man I'm not a military psychologist but it seems to me that these tactics are not only ineffective but actively harmful. Extreme physical training and mental conditioning is necessary for soldiers but fraternity-level hazing is flat out abuse that shatters people's faith in their superior's competence, isolates them and doesn't build the camaraderie you need in a unit. The last thing you should be doing is sowing division among your own men. DI's can't be a Machiavellian "better to be feared than loved" balls to the wall all the time. There has to be a form of respect as well. That doesn't mean they have to like you or be your friend, but they do have to believe what you're doing is ultimately good for them.