Students’ gun protest turns violent in Stockton, California and leads to arrests - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53164366]Well first off, mag sizes would slow shooters a whole lot. Ammo types could stop hollow points and that kind of thing[/QUOTE] Even the most unskilled people can easily change out a magazine. Hollowpoints are only deadlier when striking a soft target at center mass, but are in fact safer when being used in a home defense situation as they tend not to pass through walls. Those bans are unnecessary and emotionally charged. [editline]27th February 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=proboardslol;53164368]Hollow points I think, and teflon coated bullets I think are meant to pierce bodyarmor so they're a threat to police but that may be a myth[/QUOTE] The armor piercing bullet is largely a myth. To my knowledge officers are killed in ambushes or when receiving shots to unarmored areas such as the legs or head.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53164374]Even the most unskilled people can easily change out a magazine. Hollowpoints are only deadlier when striking a soft target at center mass, but are in fact safer when being used in a home defense situation as they tend not to pass through walls. Those bans are unnecessary and emotionally charged. [editline]27th February 2018[/editline] The armor piercing bullet is largely a myth. To my knowledge officers are killed in ambushes or when receiving shots to unarmored areas such as the legs or head.[/QUOTE] Change out?

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53164388]Change out?[/QUOTE] Reload. Take one magazine out and insert another. The only time that is difficult is using something that requires a clip or belt. Otherwise it’s incredibly simple and has been since the invention of self loading firearms

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53164366]Well first off, mag sizes would slow shooters a whole lot. Ammo types could stop hollow points and that kind of thing[/QUOTE] The Virginia Tech shooter used 10 and 15 round magazines, and is one of the most deadly school shootings in the USA.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53164392]Reload. Take one magazine out and insert another. The only time that is difficult is using something that requires a clip or belt. Otherwise it’s incredibly simple and has been since the invention of self loading firearms[/QUOTE] And yet when you're doing a shooting and likely freaking the fuck or, it causes the shooter to stop and reload, as well as force then to have to carry more. Also stop using the 'emotionally charged' buzzword [editline]27th February 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=DuCT;53164394]The Virginia Tech shooter used 10 and 15 round magazines, and is one of the most deadly school shootings in the USA.[/QUOTE] And if it was 30, more may have died. Maybe reduce the sizes more, idk

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53164398]And yet when you're doing a shooting and likely freaking the fuck or, it causes the shooter to stop and reload, as well as force then to have to carry more. Also stop using the 'emotionally charged' buzzword[/QUOTE] Please look at Virginia Tech. The shooter simply carried more magazines as he was systematically executing his victims. He did not need an extended magazine. The Aurora shooter was stopped due to a jam in his drum magazine which slowed his attack.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53164398]And yet when you're doing a shooting and likely freaking the fuck or, it causes the shooter to stop and reload, as well as force then to have to carry more. Also stop using the 'emotionally charged' buzzword[/QUOTE] It literally takes around 2 seconds to change your magazine. It's an extremely easy skill to practice and master.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53164403]Please look at Virginia Tech. The shooter simply carried more magazines as he was systematically executing his victims. He did not need an extended magazine. The Aurora shooter was stopped due to a jam in his drum magazine which slowed his attack.[/QUOTE] And I'm sure if he didn't have to reload, more would've died, same with aurora if his drum didn't jam

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53164410]And I'm sure if he didn't have to reload, more would've died, same with aurora if his drum didn't jam[/QUOTE] That is pure speculation. It doesn’t change the fact that having to reload does not make it harder for someone to shoot a cornered and unarmed target.

[QUOTE=DuCT;53164406]It literally takes around 2 seconds to change your magazine. It's an extremely easy skill to practice and master.[/QUOTE] The smaller the mag, the more reloads and the more they have to carry

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53164413]The smaller the mag, the more reloads and the more they have to carry[/QUOTE] And yet that still doesn’t change anything.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53164414]And yet that still doesn’t change anything.[/QUOTE] Based on??

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53164416]Based on??[/QUOTE] Based on the fact that limited magazines saving lives is pure speculation. We are stating that if a shooter has to use multiple magazines, he will still shoot. It is the same reason why soldiers do not carry drums anymore.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;53164355]You're dumb because either you made an intentionally horrible strawman, or are very uninformed on what you are saying. To say that [I]"any old cunt could stagger into a gun-store and buy automatic ordinance"[/I] is not at all correct. We do have a background check system, it's not as thorough as it could be but it is reasonably strict. Gun shop owners will also strike conversation with people with the dual purpose of being friendly and getting a read on the person that's buying; if they don't feel right about the person they will ask them to leave. If they find you're particularly awful they may also take steps to deny your purchase abroad by calling other gun shops and warning them about you and calling the authorities. Another thing is you cannot buy "automatic ordinance" unless you apply for it through the ATF, wait for months or even years for approval because the ATF doesn't give a fuck about your submission, and said application can be denied for virtually any reason because you need an absolutely spotless record, not to mention permission from the local police chief. And even if you do get it, well the registry was closed back in '86 so the remaining automatic weapons on the marketplace are an ever dwindling number of beat up old guns with a very high price tag, into the $10,000's for the cheapest models. And once you finally have it, you're placed on a registry and you need law enforcement permission to travel with it.[/QUOTE] I guess it would be weird to american sensibilities. But what i'm saying is- that i don't agree that a fucking civilian should have a machine designed to efficiently kill humans. I wouldn't give a fuck about screening processes, rules and regulations. If you're any old cunt, you don't get a machine gun. But at least i'm not directly in the firing line of this issue, so you boys over there have fun, just have at it.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53164426]Based on the fact that limited magazines saving lives is pure speculation. We are stating that if a shooter has to use multiple magazines, he will still shoot. It is the same reason why soldiers do not carry drums anymore.[/QUOTE] No, it's pretty simple causation, reloading= not shooting, more mags = more to carry

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53164438]No, it's pretty simple causation, reloading= not shooting, more mags = more to carry[/QUOTE] That doesn’t change much. They will still kill a large number of targets, like Brevik did.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53164438]No, it's pretty simple causation, reloading= not shooting, more mags = more to carry[/QUOTE] The mags are also smaller. You can carry pretty much the same amount of rounds in 10rd boxes as you can in 30rd boxes.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53164440]That doesn’t change much. They will still kill a large number of targets, like Brevik did.[/QUOTE] But less, that and making certain guns unavailable, raising the age required, heavier background and psychological checks would help

[QUOTE=St33m;53164433] But at least i'm not directly in the firing line of this issue, so you boys over there have fun, just have at it.[/QUOTE] Is it impossible for people from outside of the US to present an argument that doesn’t end with snide comments and jabs at one’s nationality? I’ve never understood this.

[QUOTE=DuCT;53164394]The Virginia Tech shooter used 10 and 15 round magazines, and is one of the most deadly school shootings in the USA.[/QUOTE] This comes back to the semi-auto ban in another thread. Breach action, pump action, and bolt action guns would be slower to reload than semi-auto.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53164450]But less, that and making certain guns unavailable, raising the age required, heavier background and psychological checks would help[/QUOTE] Restricting guns did not save people in columbine. Restricting magazine sizes did not save people in Virginia tech. Age limits did not save people in sandy hook. Background checks are left to underfunded and incompetently run organizations. Name and blanket bans do nothing other than make people feel good for a bit and then ignore the larger issues at hand.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53164455]Is it impossible for people from outside of the US to present an argument that doesn’t end with snide comments and jabs at one’s nationality? I’ve never understood this.[/QUOTE] I think we Americans kind of deserve it at this point.

[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;53164459]Restricting guns did not save people in columbine. Restricting magazine sizes did not save people in Virginia tech. Age limits did not save people in sandy hook. Background checks are left to underfunded and incompetently run organizations. Name and blanket bans do nothing other than make people feel good for a bit and then ignore the larger issues at hand.[/QUOTE] There weren't restrictions?

[QUOTE=Marbalo;53163993]But exactly to whom are you going to increase funding to in the DoJ to "allow them to do their jobs to prosecute illegal purchase" when the amount of reports would probably flood and exhaust your average government agency within several business weeks because there are simply too many guns circulating around? [/QUOTE] Your argument for why the best short-term solution is to pass new restrictions on guns, rather than better enforce the ones already on the books, is that existing gun laws are already literally unenforceable? We can't possibly stop people from breaking the law when buying guns, or breaking the law when selling guns, so let's... pass more laws on buying and selling guns? Even if that were true (expanding the ATF's budget by a few tens of millions so they can hire more investigators and increase their FFL evaluation rate is seriously [I]not[/I] that hard), it would directly invalidate the idea that adding more (unenforceable) restrictions is how to solve the problem. The DoJ [URL="https://www.justice.gov/usao-edwi/pr/straw-purchases-firearms-lead-prison-sentences-shawano-man"]occasionally does prosecute straw purchase[/URL], but it's low on the prosecutors' priority list [URL="https://www.npr.org/2015/12/09/459053141/straw-buyers-of-guns-break-the-law-and-often-get-away-with-it"]due to lack of resources[/URL]. Allocating funding to the DoJ, specifically earmarked for the prosecution of straw purchase, would ensure that at least some of their budget is being devoted to the issue. Or how about addressing it on a state level? In California and Maryland, both states with strong gun regulations and high homicide rates in their major cities, straw purchase is only a misdemeanor. Offenders, deliberately supplying weapons that get used to commit murders, typically just get probation- if they're prosecuted at all, because felonies take precedence in the courts. Shouldn't knowingly supplying a firearm to a felon be a serious felony, nation-wide? These are not unreasonable issues to address, nor do they require overhauling our entire justice system or siphoning tens of billions of dollars away from other tasks. No amount of pondering why other countries have less crime (no [I]shit[/I] it's the guns exacerbating deep-rooted social issues, we know this) is going to make 'just restrict guns more' the [I]most effective, most direct[/I] short-term solution to the problem. [QUOTE=Marbalo;53163993]a decision that requires short-term solutions[/QUOTE] Yet you're only providing a long-term solution of 'restrict guns and wait for the effects to trickle down someday'. I'm giving you short-term solutions to address the most significant contributing factors in gun crime.

I think however that banning certain KINDs of weapons or magazine in order to reduce the destructive capability of a weapon is missing the point; reducing total fatalities in a single incident should be a secondary goal after stopping these incidents from happening in the first place. The people who perpetrate these acts should not have access to guns, PERIOD, let alone semi-auto, 30 round extended mags with hollowpoints.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53164465]There weren't restrictions?[/QUOTE] My apologies on the restrictions, was poorly worded. but my point still stands

[QUOTE=Kiwi;53164463]hol' up a second Posting before thinking? I understand that you can speculate the future but do not speculate what might have happened in the past. You can't change the past. It still doesn't change that people's lives are lost, which you're missing the entire point and too invested in the whole magazine size vs potential loves lost in the past.[/QUOTE] What? What does that even mean? It's hypothesizing not "changing the past"

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53164438]No, it's pretty simple causation, reloading= not shooting, more mags = more to carry[/QUOTE] If there is no one that can intervene while the shooter is reloading in a 2 second period, then reducing the magazine capacity does nothing. Reducing the magazine capacity does nothing to make the shooter less effective if they have to reload more often.

[QUOTE=proboardslol;53164467] 30 round extended mags with hollowpoints.[/QUOTE] 30 rounds is standard, not extended. Hollowpoints are largely used in handguns, and I have explained their purpose.

I've always viewed gun laws the same way with laws when it comes to the internet. How about we let people who understand firearms make the laws on them.