Kotaku UK apologises for an article featuring an interview of Laura Kate Dale with TotalBiscuit - Sensationalist Headlines

The point about gamergate that's still most relevant is that gamergate objectively demonstrated biases and wrongdoings in individuals and tangible organizations, most of whom had no defense other than smearing the people criticizing them. On the other hand, gamergate being an amorphous group of internet randoms took a bunch of flak for individual comments that had nothing to do with the majority of people. The journalists used standard smear tactics and their loud voice to associate a huge group of individuals with a small group of individuals. Fucking obviously if your vague internet "group" gets accused and you personally haven't done anything wrong there's nothing you can do to refute those claims. It's an interesting look at how easy it is to hurt the reputation of groups despite individuals on the other side being clearly guilty of everything levied at them. It's a really obvious method to that can work against any group criticizing you ever, its not the first or last time it will be used. the division which with who believed who ended up mostly being between people who either realized or didnt realize these points.

[QUOTE=Gray Altoid;52584066]So in other words, a person who is a self-proclaimed embodiment of anti-harassment incited harassment against the writer of an article on anti-harassment because it featured a person she didn't like? :thinking:[/QUOTE] However many times people point out this Anita (and more importantly the people she acts as a boogeyman symbol for) will never acknowledge this as a valid point, it makes me wonder what the actual solution is to this.

[QUOTE=aaro1450;52583818]I still don't fully understand the gamergate stuff. I looked at the wiki article but it is really poorly written and it does make it look like people were mostly just defending themselves.[/QUOTE] Basically, iirc, a dev got in bed with a jornalist over views or something, then gets caught and called out on it, cries harassment from gamers, Anita and other "feminists" join in to spread more bullshit about gamers being evil along with sexist bs in games, and then loads of shit starts showing up, with political figures joining in aswell into the shitfest.

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;52584183]Basically, iirc, a dev got in bed with a jornalist over views or something, then gets caught and called out on it, cries harassment from gamers, Anita and other "feminists" join in to spread more bullshit about gamers being evil along with sexist bs in games, and then loads of shit starts showing up, with political figures joining in aswell into the shitfest.[/QUOTE] I hate to argue over indisputable facts but you forgot the part where actual sexism and harassment happened.

[QUOTE=aaro1450;52583818]I still don't fully understand the gamergate stuff. I looked at the wiki article but it is really poorly written and it does make it look like people were mostly just defending themselves.[/QUOTE] Started as a movement against corruption in videogame journalism, the people targeted started accusing the movement of being anti-feminist and sexist, people believed it and the movement pretty much went to shit from there being hijacked by trolls and actual sexists.

On the upside (not that there was one if you listen to people who say that it was all about harassment, accomplished absolutely nothing or that the whole thing should be buried or forgotten), [url=http://gamesnosh.com/fez-investors-outed-judges-2011-igf-award/]it did turn up some shady stuff that would never have come to light otherwise and would have raised some eyebrows if it had at the time.[/url] [url=https://pastebin.com/nnR5gqdX]There was also the case of Alistair Plinsof formerly of Destructoid, who was very much the victim of collusion by names who happened to be on the GameJournoPro mailing list and/or happened to be a part of the series of "fuck gamers" editorials.[/url] I know what this thread is about, but every time GamerGate is mentioned or alluded to there are some people who are determined to get their version of events out so they can either discredit the entire affair or scare people away from finding out what it was really about. Or that the industry has always been shit. Like no one should have tried or should ever try to do anything about it, or that it hasn't gotten worse because of that complacency.

[QUOTE=Electrocuter;52584299]Started as a movement against corruption in videogame journalism, the people targeted started accusing the movement of being anti-feminist and sexist, people believed it and the movement pretty much went to shit from there being hijacked by trolls and actual sexists.[/QUOTE] You really cannot believe that a movement born from 4chan's /v/ and /pol/ initially couldn't have possibly been filled with any sexism from the start? I mean the worst of it came later when people like milo, etc. started to coopt it, but there was always elements of it there. ForgottenKane pretty much nailed it, a lot of good events came out of gamergate, especially in those first months, but it just fell worse and worse as time went on.

[QUOTE=Last or First;52584019]It was nowhere near as bad as the Kane and Lynch negative reviewer getting fired, [/QUOTE] For context, this is [URL="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/116360-Jeff-Gerstmann-Explains-His-Departure-From-Gamespot"]Jeff Gerstmann[/URL], who went on to found Giant Bomb as a direct result of leaving. He is truly a man of the People

[url]http://archive.is/h6udB[/url] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/IXTfBU9.png[/IMG] lol

[QUOTE=Wii60;52584426][url]http://archive.is/h6udB[/url] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/IXTfBU9.png[/IMG] lol[/QUOTE] For clarification, he has threatened libel on the editor, not LKD... [media]https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/898200624566861825[/media] ...and he ended his relationship with LKD to protect her: [media]https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/898208422327443456[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/898208532453109760[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/Totalbiscuit/status/898209281996189696[/media]

Wouldn't be surprised if her tweet was a carefully crafted lie meant to appease her boss and colleagues.

[QUOTE=Wii60;52584426][url]http://archive.is/h6udB[/url] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/IXTfBU9.png[/IMG] [/quote] Here is the [url=https://archive.fo/zNXWi]full context with the complete set of deleted tweets[/url]. The 'Traps are Gay' incident was brought up in their conversation and Laura was upset he responded to the 'apology' article.

Gamergate may go down in history as the embodiment of harassment and evil, but the lessons about the importance of ethics disclosure it taught us all will live on

Most people involved with anti-gamergate and gamergate were opportunistic people. Although it sucks Anita has such a loud voice in femenism when she doesn't even understand it. If she was interested in representing it, she would at least present mitigating arguments against her own.

[QUOTE=Speedhax;52584911]Most people involved with anti-gamergate and gamergate were opportunistic people. Although it sucks Anita has such a loud voice in femenism when she doesn't even understand it. If she was interested in representing it, she would at least present mitigating arguments against her own.[/QUOTE] even if she did present counter-arguments, it's not like they'd really be up against much. her own assertations, while there is a rare point here and there, are juvenile at best. the whole women in video games series comes off as a collection of high school speech class presentations made by somebody who tried REALLY hard to find corroborating sources but ended up grasping at straws half the time

[QUOTE=Rossy167;52584207]I hate to argue over indisputable facts but you forgot the part where actual sexism and harassment happened.[/QUOTE] That happens with just about anyone in video games though. I could go into csgo or dota right now and be told that someone's gonna find and kill me over a video game. The fact that she called out harassment IMO was more of a "be sorry for me" kind of thing than actually being afraid of any harassment done to her, especially considering it was Zoe Quinn and Anita. Also, loads of that so called harassment came from people who probably weren't even pro-gamergate, but in the end, the whole thing was a shitshow, with some flaming people like Quinn and Anita and just fuelling their ideas, and others being called sexist pigs and being told to kill themselves when they showed up with facts on how there was a lot of shit going on within gaming journalism. One thing I'm sure though. Feminist Frequency is shit.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52584345]You really cannot believe that a movement born from 4chan's /v/ and /pol/ initially couldn't have possibly been filled with any sexism from the start? I mean the worst of it came later when people like milo, etc. started to coopt it, but there was always elements of it there. ForgottenKane pretty much nailed it, a lot of good events came out of gamergate, especially in those first months, but it just fell worse and worse as time went on.[/QUOTE] Absolutely, especially since it came around the formative period of many things you observe in alt-right culture (using the word 'cuck' superfluously, general anti-feminism, etc.)

[QUOTE=Duck M.;52585257]Absolutely, especially since it came around the formative period of many things you observe in alt-right culture (using the word 'cuck' superfluously, general anti-feminism, etc.)[/QUOTE] lmao what? No it didn't. That came like 2 years after when trump began his presidential campaign in 2016. Gamergate started around 2014 when a writer's bias finally broke the camels back from events years prior including the huge mass effect controversy and Jeff Gerstman's firing. This has nothing to do with alt-right culture.

[QUOTE=Duck M.;52585257]Absolutely, especially since it came around the formative period of many things you observe in alt-right culture (using the word 'cuck' superfluously, general anti-feminism, etc.)[/QUOTE] Now I wasn't around for the movement's later months (years?), but this wasn't the case when I was around. I was never a part of the movement but never observed any of that. I think after the original goals were achieved and a lot of the original supporters were satisfied is when the movement truly lost focus. After that, a lot of the trolls and right-wingers that showed up because the feminists were attacking took the helm and it fell apart.

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;52585025]That happens with just about anyone in video games though. I could go into csgo or dota right now and be told that someone's gonna find and kill me over a video game. The fact that she called out harassment IMO was more of a "be sorry for me" kind of thing than actually being afraid of any harassment done to her, especially considering it was Zoe Quinn and Anita. Also, loads of that so called harassment came from people who probably weren't even pro-gamergate, but in the end, the whole thing was a shitshow, with some flaming people like Quinn and Anita and just fuelling their ideas, and others being called sexist pigs and being told to kill themselves when they showed up with facts on how there was a lot of shit going on within gaming journalism. One thing I'm sure though. Feminist Frequency is shit.[/QUOTE] Anita was doxxed. That's not the same as someone telling her she's going to find her and kill her over the internet. I think it's impossible to deny that harassment wasn't done in the name of both "sides" of the argument, both people who fully believed in their cause, and just trolls stirring shit. Again, I'm in support of the gaming journalism was shit part and was very much into gamergate for a substantial amount of time.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52585442]Now I wasn't around for the movement's later months (years?), but this wasn't the case when I was around. I was never a part of the movement but never observed any of that. I think after the original goals were achieved and a lot of the original supporters were satisfied is when the movement truly lost focus. After that, a lot of the trolls and right-wingers that showed up because the feminists were attacking took the helm and it fell apart.[/QUOTE] The closest thing to a goal I remember being "achieved" was actively fucking up Kotaku and Gawker in general super hard by messing with their advertisers (some of which didn't even know they had "affiliate" logos on their site if I recall), but gaming journalism is still fucked, nobody is really held to ethical standards consistently even now. Gamergate may have started with good intentions (I still question this considering how it's an off shoot of the whole "Five Guys" incident which a lot of people did use to attack those involved, it took a hot minute for people to actually realise "hey wait shit we should maybe look at the collusion thing though"), it was rapidly co-opted by alt-right shitlords like Milo (gained him a fair few fanboys) and Youtube "skeptics" like Sargon (who really was just looking for more reasons to bitch about "the left"). My recollection is a lot of the actually sane supporters of it left fairly early on thanks to this co-opting as it was just fostering a really shitty environment where there was an obsession with what Quinn or Wu or whoever was tweeting, rather than trying to find proper solutions to problems. Thankfully stuff was being done both under and outside of the flag of Gamer Gate to try and find solutions to the problems. But I cannot for the life of me fathom why anyone would want to continue flying that GG flag once shitlords like Milo got their claws into it, it took far, far too long for GG supporters to distance themselves from these dickheads.

[QUOTE=Duck M.;52585257]Absolutely, especially since it came around the formative period of many things you observe in alt-right culture (using the word 'cuck' superfluously, general anti-feminism, etc.)[/QUOTE] I know you jump to attack GG any time you can, but this just isn't the case factually. Cuck pre-dated GG.

[QUOTE=Duck M.;52585257]Absolutely, especially since it came around the formative period of many things you observe in alt-right culture (using the word 'cuck' superfluously, general anti-feminism, etc.)[/QUOTE] Cuck first started getting used when Anthony Burch was crashing. At it was an apt label. And he still never got his Wii U back.

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;52585531]alt right culture really began to pick up steam around 2011, when the use of the term social justice warrior was first use as an insult on twitter and not as a compliment as it had been for decades, by reactionaries trying to undermine progress on social issues during the obama era.[/QUOTE] As much as this may be the case, there's been a lot of rabid foaming at the mouth weirdo leftists who the left and journalists who associate in that aisle signal boosted despite the fact those people were generally shitty. So, yeah, people reacted to that. Just because you can tie the letters "SJW" to a cause doesn't make it a valid or worthy cause inherently.

Sucks that Laura hasn't even been working with Kotaku that long and they have already dropped the ball on some of her work. Wasn't Total Biscuit barely affiliated with the whole gg thing anyway? IIRC he was distanced from it by the time it turned proper rotten.

[QUOTE=Rossy167;52585490]Anita was doxxed. That's not the same as someone telling her she's going to find her and kill her over the internet. I think it's impossible to deny that harassment wasn't done in the name of both "sides" of the argument, both people who fully believed in their cause, and just trolls stirring shit. Again, I'm in support of the gaming journalism was shit part and was very much into gamergate for a substantial amount of time.[/QUOTE] Didn't say she wasn't. She did, however, use it to further her own goals, victimizing and milking it as much as possible to boost her narrative against gamergate, even if the harrassers probably had nothing to do with it. But I'm highly biased against her anyway. It seems like all she does is complain about shit nobody really cares about, or that is just plain wrong.

[QUOTE=fulgrim;52585599]Wasn't Total Biscuit barely affiliated with the whole gg thing anyway? IIRC he was distanced from it by the time it turned proper rotten.[/QUOTE] Yeah but people like Anita Sarkeesian like to pretend that TotalBiscuit's a misogynist or some bullshit because he calls people out on their bullshit and she spews nothing but bullshit.

[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52585525]I know you jump to attack GG any time you can, but this just isn't the case factually. Cuck pre-dated GG.[/QUOTE] I was mostly talking about it's popularization. I should probably mention that a lot of my experience with early gamergate with the five-guys controversy going around was on 4chan. So that's where a lot of my perception has come from, and I don't think that part of it was ever insignificant as one of the hotbeds for proto-GG. As far as I know, though, there were definitely brighter sides on less vitrolic enclaves. [editline]17th August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Tetsmega;52585425]lmao what? No it didn't. That came like 2 years after when trump began his presidential campaign in 2016. Gamergate started around 2014 when a writer's bias finally broke the camels back from events years prior including the huge mass effect controversy and Jeff Gerstman's firing. This has nothing to do with alt-right culture.[/QUOTE] The seeds of the modern alt-right originated years before Trump. There's a pretty clear correlation between things like r9k posting (smug pepe/normies ESPECIALLY is notable in it's application to Trump-era memetics), meme culture, anti-feminism, gamergate, and a lot more. It's mostly a large bed of mucky water that you could see growing darker until the frogs in the swamp grew xenophobic. It's also worth noting that the whole "Moot is a Cuck" thing was in late 2014 as well, which is what I really consider to be one of the most significant periods of the terms use and memetic status. Coincidentally (or perhaps not), this is also the rough time period that Gamergate occurred in and really peaked in terms of prevalence and awareness. So my recollection really wasn't off on that mark, as far as I'm aware. [editline]17th August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=DuCT;52585535]Cuck first started getting used when Anthony Burch was crashing. At it was an apt label. And he still never got his Wii U back.[/QUOTE] This too. Something I forgot about but is definitely relevant.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52584345]You really cannot believe that a movement born from 4chan's /v/ and /pol/ initially couldn't have possibly been filled with any sexism from the start? I mean the worst of it came later when people like milo, etc. started to coopt it, but there was always elements of it there. ForgottenKane pretty much nailed it, a lot of good events came out of gamergate, especially in those first months, but it just fell worse and worse as time went on.[/QUOTE] It did not originate in /pol/, they hijacked it after it got big. This all came at a time when there was a schism within 4chan's mods too. It was a fucking shitshow on 4chan during all of this and it was hard to tell what the fuck was going on. Also the worst offenders were Something Awful, they had quite a few dedicated trolls actively harassing people and either claiming to be GG or anti-GG constantly to fan the flames.

[QUOTE=aaro1450;52583818]I still don't fully understand the gamergate stuff. I looked at the wiki article but it is really poorly written and it does make it look like people were mostly just defending themselves.[/QUOTE] "Games Journalism" is as hypocritical and as self serving as it gets, they are a cancer on the industry and they has shown time again they will do [I]anything[/I] to horde what little scraps of money and readership remain. 4chan had absolutely nothing to do with gamergate's inception.