Christian thrown out of university over anti-gay remarks posted on Facebook loses appeal - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52829110]Do you want social workers to lack empathy for those they're suppose to help? Do you want cops to have bias against people that can arrest?[/QUOTE] Terrible analogy, cops are not competing with each other to offer a service and are given special powers that come with additional responsibilities. Are you proposing we should audit the social and political views of people before they can enter the market in order to sanitize an industry?

[QUOTE=Conscript;52829178]Are you proposing we should audit the social and political views of people before they can enter the market in order to sanitize an industry?[/QUOTE] This is not about god damn ~cultural change~, this is ensuring that vulnerable people are not put under the care of those who only hate them.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52829170] Insinuating that someone is going to hell because they don't align with your worldview is pretty irrational and hateful.[/QUOTE] Based on what the article said, he said it's a sin, not that gay people are going to hell. And The article doesn't give any other context than it was on facebook, so you don't even know if he's forcing it down people's throats or just a passing thought. Without the full context It's hard to make an accurate judgement. [QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52829188]This is not about god damn ~cultural change~, this is ensuring that vulnerable people are not put under the care of those who only hate them.[/QUOTE] Disagreeing with a worldview =/= hate. The article gives almost nothing to imply that it was said in hate.

[QUOTE=Conscript;52829178]Terrible analogy, cops are not competing with each other to offer a service and are given special powers that come with additional responsibilities. Are you proposing we should audit the social and political views of people before they can enter the market in order to sanitize an industry?[/QUOTE] do you honestly even know what people are talking abotu right now? lol where did all this doctor talk come from. NOBODY IS A DOCTOR

You're not going to protect anyone unless you start politically auditing the views of every single person who goes through higher education. [QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52829182]Do you think children in need get to pick and choose their social worker??? Do you have a basic understanding of what their job entails?[/QUOTE] Yes, there are a variety of organizations private and public that employ a number of them. Are you denying that there is choice in the matter and that therefore responsibility must fall on higher ed institutions to filter out people based on views, not performance? Considering the religious have had a hand in social work for a long time, I see no argument to just dispose of them and not let an employer deal with any ramifications.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52829212]Literally everything is a sin. Why would anyone need to specify homosexuality unless your using it as a proxy for outdated, dumbshit, ignorant, and harmful beliefs?[/QUOTE] It's ironic that you're calling his belief "outdated, dumbshit, ignorant, and harmful" but appear to approve the decision to bar him for having the same thoughts about homosexuality. But anyways, According to the article it was part of a debate. [quote]The judge was told Ngole had posted comments during a debate about Kim Davis, a state official in the US state of Kentucky, who refused to register same-sex marriages. Ngole said he had argued that Davis’s position was based on the “Biblical view of same-sex marriage as a sin”[/quote]

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52829170] Insinuating that someone is going to hell because they don't align with your worldview is pretty irrational and hateful.[/QUOTE] hell isn't a real place though

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52829219]They employ children in need? As in 6 year olds taken from home because they were abused, dress them up, and give them jobs? I think you misread my question.[/QUOTE] Employ social workers

[QUOTE=Nautsabes;52829203]do you honestly even know what people are talking abotu right now? lol where did all this doctor talk come from. NOBODY IS A DOCTOR[/QUOTE] you said u were a doctor :buddy:

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52829234]Again, it's just a proxy. There are many legal sins, and no one is spouting off about those with bible quotes.[/QUOTE] Because they might not be relevant to the debate?

[QUOTE=AK'z;52829235]you said u were a doctor :buddy:[/QUOTE] thats because i am a doctr but nobody in the article is a doctor

[QUOTE=Stiffy360;52829197]Disagreeing with a worldview =/= hate. The article gives almost nothing to imply that it was said in hate.[/QUOTE] How can blatant homophobia [I]not[/I] be considered hate? [editline]27th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=AK'z;52829228]hell isn't a real place though[/QUOTE] But from the point of view of a believer, it is one of the worst things you can wish upon someone.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52829256]How can blatant homophobia [I]not[/I] be considered hate? [editline]27th October 2017[/editline] But from the point of view of a believer, it is one of the worst things you can wish upon someone.[/QUOTE] To quote my previous post on this [QUOTE=Stiffy360;52828692]I wish they'd link to the facebook posts instead of paraphrasing it. That way you can fully understand the context. Because him saying that “the Bible and God identify homosexuality as a sin” isn't really targeting the gay person specifically, but their actions. Which while many may disagree with that statement, it's not really derogatory towards the people themselves. If it was a part of a debate then it's in context and as long as he isn't shouting it to everyone he meets, then imo it's appropriate and in that case I think throwing him out is excessive and almost a violation of free speech. However, if it's something like "God hates fags" (pardon the language) and verbally abusing gay people by shoving it in their faces like the westborough baptists, then it's an entirely different argument as you're directly targeting the person themselves with hostility. Which is indeed a derogatory statement and definitely worthy of criticism. You can disagree with someone's world view and still get along with them.[/QUOTE] Basically, I can say "I hate stealing" but if my best friend stole like a bag of chips, do you think I'd hate him? [QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52829260]Right, but the bible is somehow always relevant in these kinds of debates. People can't just jump out and say "I hate gay people for no logical reason" even when that is the case, ergo bible proxy. You never hear bible quotes in state execution situations, because it's okay to say "I hate murderers" or etc. And anyone with that belief should not be near vulnerable children.[/QUOTE] The Bible is vauge on homosexuality compared to murder. It's more than just a few words. And you act like people who don't have a religion can't hurt people too. Just because you believe in a book doesn't mean you'll be a mass murderer or hate everyone else who is different than you.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52829170]We often give the boot to emergency service members who we find to be racist or sexist because we cannot trust them to do their jobs without letting bias cloud their judgement. I don't see any difference between that and this. Even then we still have a problem with racist people in emergency services.[/QUOTE] again. you cannot dig into every personal belief of every individual. while an individual is representing their profession, yes they should not express discriminatory thoughts. but outside of this, you have no right to dig into their messages and find that they have questionable beliefs that have had no direct effect on their own professional care. I care about how they represent the profession. If an EMT is getting drunk and makes questionable remarks while NOT representing emergency crew. I do not think they should be removed from the register. It's shit like this where people have far too much control over a field that is really short of staff that has an effect on the numbers. People are not robots and will not portray themselves as robots in their day to day lives just to meet your criteria. This is something that needs to be addressed because the way things are going, it's like people shouldn't be people and more like a machine.

[QUOTE=AK'z;52828778]I have very mixed feelings about this tbh. I have seen academics representing healthcare who have been able to [B]publish[/B] discriminatory remarks and articles and yet still be a respectable lecturer. On one hand you can say they failed representing social care, but on the other you can actually say they were expressing private beliefs on a private forum only to be stabbed in the back. It's very difficult and definitely not a certain argument one way or the other. I cannot say in all honest truth that every single social worker or healthcare worker isn't discriminatory. Because it's just not true and there's no way you could ask each of them about their personal beliefs and then remove them from the register because it's absurd. Tudd may have gone about this line of argument like a pillock, but there is something to think about.[/QUOTE] One should be careful about whom to judge and whom to let go, that is for certain.

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52829256] But from the point of view of a believer, it is one of the worst things you can wish upon someone.[/QUOTE] Which is who? The point of view of the guy arrested for believing in Jesus' views?

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52829276]I didn't realize that not hating gay people was so difficult, that we'd only expect that from robots.[/QUOTE] I don't think that is the point. I think the point is that people are prone to superstition and low beliefs, even the ones who post here. But we all serve to make society what it is, and we should be careful because all of us have views and beliefs that would seem outdated and immoral, yet we need people to work right? Even if they are backwards?

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52829276]I didn't realize that not hating gay people was so difficult, that we'd only expect that from robots.[/QUOTE] Why don't you list your entire personal list of beliefs then let them put it into the machine to deem it ok to be an EMT. Good luck with that.

I don't mean to put words into AKz' mouth, and I'm not sure I'm coming across properly myself.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52829294]I think the population is large enough to replace any homophobes that need replacing.[/QUOTE] Are you sure? Okay, we can replace those who work with sick people? Can we replace those who govern us? What should we prioritize? Where is the tradeoff, is it worth it? Can you truly quantify these things?

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52829311] And lastly, no human should be thought of badly solely for religion. ESPECIALLY using arbitrary religion as a justification. Do I pass the test? [/QUOTE] no because this belief makes no sense.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52829311]I don't know man, that's a lot of questions I've never considered. I doubt the majority working in those positions have opinions that are harmful to their work. Most people are decent humans at heart, especially in the medical field. You almost have to be to go through all the shit they go through.[/QUOTE] I'm actually fine with this guy in the OP being thrown out, personally, I think we can afford to put a certain line down and say "you don't cross this" but I also think Akayz' makes a valid point.

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;52829311]Most people are decent humans at heart, especially in the medical field. You almost have to be to go through all the shit they go through.[/QUOTE] The training it involves is about how they portray themselves. Whether it's real or not, is up to you. But for me.. a majority of it is acting. I'm really sorry to say that, but with the amount people in the medical field go through, it is one thing to not let work affect you personally. They want you to be a robot, essentially.

[QUOTE=AK'z;52829346]The training it involves is about how they portray themselves. Whether it's real or not, is up to you. But for me.. a majority of it is acting. I'm really sorry to say that, but with the amount people in the medical field go through, it is one thing to not let work affect you personally. They want you to be a robot, essentially.[/QUOTE] This is no different to other fields, really, it's just more a thing cause it's a matter of life and death.

[QUOTE=AK'z;52829265]again. you cannot dig into every personal belief of every individual. while an individual is representing their profession, yes they should not express discriminatory thoughts. but outside of this, you have no right to dig into their messages and find that they have questionable beliefs that have had no direct effect on their own professional care. I care about how they represent the profession. If an EMT is getting drunk and makes questionable remarks while NOT representing emergency crew. I do not think they should be removed from the register. It's shit like this where people have far too much control over a field that is really short of staff that has an effect on the numbers. People are not robots and will not portray themselves as robots in their day to day lives just to meet your criteria. This is something that needs to be addressed because the way things are going, it's like people shouldn't be people and more like a machine.[/QUOTE] nobody dug into anything the dude posted his opinions on homosexuals on a public forum for the whole world to see

[QUOTE=Nautsabes;52829352]nobody dug into anything the dude posted his opinions on homosexuals on a public forum for the whole world to see[/QUOTE] I wanted to leave the dude out, I already said it's his own fault for breaking university policy. We can move on from the OP.

[quote]Where, as Sheffield does, they aspire to be [B]welcoming environments for students from a diverse range of backgrounds[/B], they must expect to be[B] inclusive and supportive[/B] of that diversity.”[/quote] ([url]https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/27/christian-felix-ngole-thrown-out-sheffield-university-anti-gay-remarks-loses-appeal[/url]) Unless you are a christian of course. Man you Brits love to call out "Hatred" by Christians yet protect a vile religion like Islam when it is the reason people are getting killed in your streets. This is absolute moral bankruptcy right here. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitpost" - Novangel))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Timof2009;52829358]([url]https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/oct/27/christian-felix-ngole-thrown-out-sheffield-university-anti-gay-remarks-loses-appeal[/url]) Unless you are a christian of course. Man you Brits love to call out "Hatred" by Christians yet protect a vile religion like Islam when it is the reason people are getting killed in your streets. This is absolute moral bankruptcy right here.[/QUOTE] Look, I think you missed out when nobody told you how Islam is really just a religion and that the reason people get killed in the street isn't because a fucking stupid religion but more to do with real reasons that actually happen to get people killed in the street. I get how you feel like the people around you are morally bankrupt, been there, but trust me people aren't bad just cause they're muslims.

discussion is now ruined :(

I've known too many good muslims to think that Islam is that different to christianity or any other religion, a lot of people have known no muslims, so they think that Islam is this thing that corrupts. Turns out it's mostly just conventional war, poverty and extreme conservatists. [editline]28th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=AK'z;52829425]discussion is now ruined :([/QUOTE] I think we've had a pretty good discussion, tbh.