'Mass shooting' reported at small town church in Texas - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52863739]Gun Control doesn't work when we don't bother to enforce our existing laws.[/QUOTE] I don't know if it's a lack of enforcement. It's just abhorrently inefficient. The entire NICS all the way down to the ATF's own system are hardly fit for the year 2000.

[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;52861477]have to say it's pretty frustrating whenever a mass shooting like this happens in the US and the immediate conversation is "hey let's not politicize it. let's not consider trying to do anything to avoid this in future. let's just keep having people get shot to death whenever someone decides that it's gonna happen" like, literally every time. "hey what if we did something about the fact that it's really easy to get your hands on firear-" "No." "okay what about mental hea-" "Not feasible. Sorry." like fucking hell guys, maybe some of the pro gun people could suggest some shit or help make the ideas thrown out more workable instead of just telling people trying to stop more people from dying the exact same way to go fuck themselves[/QUOTE] Ok, you tell us stupid Americans then. What is the magic solution to violence in America. We're all ears.

[QUOTE=srobins;52863931]Ok, you tell us stupid Americans then. What is the magic solution to violence in America. We're all ears.[/QUOTE] They tell us in every thread, ban guns, be like Europe or Australia, etc.

[QUOTE=Sir Whoopsalot;52861595]I love how The Onion always, [I]always[/I] reposts this one story with just a few words swapped out. [media]https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/927305485119840257[/media][/QUOTE] Despite the fact I love the Onion this one the dumbest things they post. It's incredibly easy to criticize and be high and mighty about reposting such a though provoking article without doing anythings themselves.

Interview with the guy who shot and chased after the shooter. [quote]Stephen Willeford shot and chased the man who killed 26 people in a Texas church on Sunday. He spoke to 40/29 News in an exclusive sit-down interview on Monday. Willeford was at home when his daughter came into his bedroom to tell him she heard gunshots at the First Baptist Church nearby. Willeford, a former NRA instructor, got his rifle out of his safe while his daughter looked outside again. She ran back in and told him she saw a man in black tactical gear shooting up the church. "I kept hearing the shots, one after another, very rapid shots - just 'pop pop pop pop' and I knew every one of those shots represented someone, that it was aimed at someone, that they weren't just random shots," Willeford said." Willeford loaded his magazine and ran across the street to the church, not even taking the time to put on shoes. When Willeford saw the gunman, he exchanged gunfire. "He saw me and I saw him," Willeford said. "I was standing behind a pickup truck for cover." "I know I hit him," Willeford said. "He got into his vehicle, and he fired another couple rounds through his side window. When the window dropped, I fired another round at him again."[/quote] [url]http://www.4029tv.com/article/man-who-shot-texas-church-gunman-shares-his-story/13437943[/url] Incredible interview to watch.

[QUOTE=RG4ORDR;52863974]Despite the fact I love the Onion this one the dumbest things they post. It's incredibly easy to criticize and be high and mighty about reposting such a though provoking article without doing anythings themselves.[/QUOTE] Things such as?

Reading the report from the US Airforce has just put me through a fucking blood-rage. This could have been prevented by the laws we have on the books. No let me correct that: It would of been prevented, if some fucking POG did their job correctly. Honestly, I hope everyone in that town sues the US government for screwing up this badly.

[media]https://youtu.be/B4HEchh0XD8[/media] Full interview with the guy who shot the shooter. He and the driver assisting him are such heroes. Some interesting facts: - Stephen is a former NRA instructor - Only had a handful of ammunition and ran a block to the church with no shoes on. - Stephen says the shooter had a Kevlar jacket on and was able to identify his sides were exposed and shot him there with his AR15. - Apparently the car chase was long and ended when the shooter bled out. *update* Reuters confirms the shooter shot himself in the head, but also had been hit twice from the confrontation in the torso and leg.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52864240][media]https://youtu.be/B4HEchh0XD8[/media] Full interview with the guy who shot the shooter. He and the driver assisting him are such heroes.[/QUOTE] On the one hand, yeah, sure, they stopped him from potentially going out and causing further damage. But on the other, the guy's motives are now murky and speculated because he's dead, and can no longer answer questions. And on yet another hand, we still have 25+ dead people in a small Texas church.

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;52864281]On the one hand, yeah, sure, they stopped him from potentially going out and causing further damage. But on the other, the guy's motives are now murky and speculated because he's dead, and can no longer answer questions. And on yet another hand, we still have 25+ dead people in a small Texas church.[/QUOTE] there's a solid chance that the root of his motives will just be that he was batshit

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;52864281]On the one hand, yeah, sure, they stopped him from potentially going out and causing further damage. But on the other, the guy's motives are now murky and speculated because he's dead, and can no longer answer questions. And on yet another hand, we still have 25+ dead people in a small Texas church.[/QUOTE] I would prefer him to be dead and incapable of killing anyone else than alive to explain why he killed another 25 people in another location. They were saying on the news he was there to kill the mother of his spouse, who wasn't in attendance that day.

[QUOTE=butre;52864288]there's a solid chance that the root of his motives will just be that he was batshit[/QUOTE] Well I mean obviously one won't exactly be of the right mind to decide that this is the best course of action for something like the purported beef he had with family or whatever, but leaving it as murky as "he was crazy" allows room for speculation into all sorts of crazy conspiracies like "he converted to Islam" and the like.

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;52864281]On the one hand, yeah, sure, they stopped him from potentially going out and causing further damage. But on the other, the guy's motives are now murky and speculated because he's dead, and can no longer answer questions. And on yet another hand, we still have 25+ dead people in a small Texas church.[/QUOTE] The guy stopped the shooter before anything further could happen. That is all that matters.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52864098]Interview with the guy who shot and chased after the shooter. [url]http://www.4029tv.com/article/man-who-shot-texas-church-gunman-shares-his-story/13437943[/url] Incredible interview to watch.[/QUOTE] This man is a hero I don't know what training the AF gets with guns but the fact that he isn't dead after firing at a man that just killed all those people is fucking wild Sadly however I wish we could have captured the guy alive. But who knows if he'd go on another spree after getting away. [editline]7th November 2017[/editline] He sounds proper shaken even after the events too

[QUOTE=J!NX;52864534]This man is a hero I don't know what training the AF gets with guns but the fact that he isn't dead after firing at a man that just killed all those people is fucking wild[/quote] I can tell you that unless you are AF Security Forces, or doing SERE-related jobs, in the Air Force you get pretty minimal training. Were talking maybe a few days at a range with a M9, or a AR if you are lucky, for any other personnel-related job. Seeing how this guy was some logistics dude the AF probably taught him nothing compared to what he knew from shooting regularly at home. [quote] Sadly however I wish we could have captured the guy alive. But who knows if he'd go on another spree after getting away.[/quote] It is always better to catch these guys alive, but with more firearms/ammo in the truck, I think it is far better this guy was stopped by Stephen when he was. The crazy thing is that Stephen's AR15 might have been what defeated the Kevlar vest that the shooter apparently was wearing. So yeah, there are reasons you need an AR15 to defend yourself when a pistol simply won't do.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52864567]I can tell you that unless you are AF Security Forces, or doing SERE-related jobs, in the Air Force you get pretty minimal training. Were talking maybe a few days at a range with a M9, or a AR if you are lucky, for any other personnel-related job. Seeing how this guy was some logistics dude the AF probably taught him nothing compared to what he knew from shooting regularly at home.[/QUOTE] I've met probably a dozen airmen who have never touched a gun in their lives, and have been in the USAF for several years at least.

[QUOTE=tyanet;52864576]I've met probably a dozen airmen who have never touched a gun in their lives, and have been in the USAF for several years at least.[/QUOTE] Totally not surprised. Being in the Air Force didn't help this guy is what we can conclude essentially.

[QUOTE=tyanet;52864576]I've met probably a dozen airmen who have never touched a gun in their lives, and have been in the USAF for several years at least.[/QUOTE] I was under the impression that EVERY airman had to go through the range in order to graduate basic. Not necessarily pass it, but to have range time. My career field never had to touch one after basic unless we deployed. Which is still a requirement to this day. Unless there's some caveat in basic that I haven't heard about.

idk about today but it used to be that every member of all branches of the military would be a combat position if it came to it, so all members received firearms training.

-snip-

NPR (on the radio) stated that the reason behind the shooting was to kill his ex wife's mother, whose church that was. His ex-mother-in-aw wasn't even at that service when he opened fire. This was not religiously motivated at any level.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52864690]NPR (on the radio) stated that the reason behind the shooting was to kill his ex wife's mother, whose church that was. His ex-mother-in-aw wasn't even at that service when he opened fire. This was not religiously motivated at any level.[/QUOTE] Well that isn't completely crossed out nor really any hard evidence to lean the motivation to being religious or non-religious; since that still requires an explanation on why he shot and killed 27 people instead of just murdering one.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52864743]Well that isn't completely crossed out nor really any hard evidence to lean the motivation to being religious or non-religious; since that still requires an explanation on why he shot and killed 27 people instead of just murdering one.[/QUOTE] From how the segment on the radio went, it gave at least the implication that he thought she was inside. Given that he fired on the church from outside before entering and shooting may give credit to that.

[QUOTE=butre;52864657]idk about today but it used to be that every member of all branches of the military would be a combat position if it came to it, so all members received firearms training.[/QUOTE] There's a difference between training however. The types of rifle training your average Airmen does pales in comparison to that of your average Marine, to which that pales in comparison to what someone in Infantry receives. Your average airman plops a couple holes in paper at a simulated 75m-300m (at Lackland they shoot at 25m with progressively smaller targets representing longer distances). That's hardly what I would call any real proper training with a rifle.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52864753]From how the segment on the radio went, it gave at least the implication that he thought she was inside. Given that he fired on the church from outside before entering and shooting may give credit to that.[/QUOTE] And that doesn't give you any reservations that there could be ulterior motives for why he was willing to shoot others in a church during service instead of just a single homicide? You do realize that if he just wanted to murder one person he could have probably done it endless ways that didn't involve killing a congregation as a by-product. Ofcourse he was probably hoping she was inside, but there is a difference between him waiting to follow and kill her alone and spraying into a church full of people too. I have no idea what his overall motive is and nobody really knows either at this moment.

[QUOTE=catbarf;52862423]Did you know that the Obama administration, in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting, funded the CDC to conduct research on addressing gun violence? It was a [B]Big Deal[/B] at the time, as it was hailed as Congress overcoming the supposed ban on CDC gun violence research, and the administration eagerly awaited the results. The CDC worked for [I]over a year[/I], compiling research from around the country, and eventually released a comprehensive 121-page report. The report concluded that existing efforts at gun control didn't help, common scapegoats like assault weapons weren't an effective means of addressing gun violence, and that the best way to reduce gun violence was to address the underlying societal issues (like suicide, gang violence, and lack of mental healthcare). It also identified secondary contributing factors, such as some of the ones I noted in my previous post, that have historically not been addressed by gun control measures. You'd think that a giant report from the CDC identifying specific measures that could curtail gun violence would be of significant interest to lawmakers interested in solving the problem, right? The study was quietly dropped and the Obama administration never mentioned it again. So yes, there absolutely are solutions based on statistics, facts, and reason that are completely ignored, because the goal of most Congressmen isn't to fix the issue, it's to score political points for their side with symbolic measures that do little more than make a statement. Find me a Democrat who opposes reactionary assault weapon bans, or a Republican who supports government spending on mental healthcare, and I'll say you've found someone who really cares about solving the problem more than partisan loyalties. The unfortunate fact is that they're a minority on both sides.[/QUOTE] Can you link this CDC report? Because the only report that I've found from Obama-era legislation is a 110 page document ([URL]https://www.nap.edu/read/18319/chapter/3[/URL]) tackling the question of "what should we be asking". On Page 23 you can see the report they mention that research/legislation is difficult due to multiple roadblocks, such as research limitations on the CDC, restrictions on the collection of data on firearms ownership through second amendment legislation leading to "...the past 20 years have witnessed diminished progress in understanding the causes and effects of firearm violence." I can't imagine this is the one you're talking about as it is fairly explicit in stating that an area of research with promise (Page 54 onwards) is gun control in the literal sense. [quote=Page 58]The current state of smart-gun technology appears to be reaching a level of maturity at which private-industry adoption is important and necessary to move the technology to broader use. [/quote] [editline]7th November 2017[/editline] I hope it isn't because to use the word comprehensive to describe the report would be extremely misleading, as it's a report of questions and areas of research that should be performed to improve legislation, some of which are definitely gun control in the strictest sense, which definitely mentions social factors but to paint it as "comprehensive" would be a joke - the one above is a report of questions, rather than conclusions.

[QUOTE=RG4ORDR;52863974]Despite the fact I love the Onion this one the dumbest things they post. It's incredibly easy to criticize and be high and mighty about reposting such a though provoking article without doing anythings themselves.[/QUOTE] I don't think the sentiment behind it is necessarily wrong, but it makes it sound like the solution is a no-brainer and it's not quite easy to solve problems like this when you have tribalist bipartisan shitflinging for a political system.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52864785]I have no idea what his overall motive is and nobody really knows either at this moment.[/QUOTE] The case is clear to me. The overall motive seems to be his ex. [editline]7th November 2017[/editline] And the fact that he was crazy and ready to kill a lot of people.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52864785]And that doesn't give you any reservations that there could be ulterior motives for why he was willing to shoot others in a church during service instead of just a single homicide? You do realize that if he just wanted to murder one person he could have probably done it endless ways that didn't involve killing a congregation as a by-product. Ofcourse he was probably hoping she was inside, but there is a difference between him waiting to follow and kill her alone and spraying into a church full of people too. I have no idea what his overall motive is and nobody really knows either at this moment.[/QUOTE] It's pretty clear he'd already decided his life was over and resolved to end it. I don't think the unfairness of taking as many others with him as possible occurred to him. Perhaps he attributed whatever problem he had with her to her religiosity and decided to target other members of the congregation, or perhaps he was just a deeply self possessed cunt who did it because the morality didn't matter to him and there really was no other reason. What we do know lines up with the idea that he was there to kill the murder. Beyond that, he's dead, and unless he wrote it down somewhere, we'll probably never know for sure what was going through his head.

[QUOTE=Techno Grub;52865769]The case is clear to me. The overall motive seems to be his ex. [editline]7th November 2017[/editline] And the fact that he was crazy and ready to kill a lot of people.[/QUOTE] You see how you had to leap there from explaining the motivation of single homicide to the willingness to kill several people with little to no explanation? Yah that is the gap we don't know why he was willing to do mass murder. Maybe he was just crazy and just hated the world (pretty likely), but either way pretty early to conclusively say anything.