'Mass shooting' reported at small town church in Texas - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Ona;52875146]So hey, cheers for affirming my suspicions, I'm gonna go wallow in my existential dread for the future of humanity, peace.[/QUOTE] You're literally just here to troll at this point. Any semblance of an argument that you might hope to make was lost pages ago.

-snip-

Shit like this is why bans don't work [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHZSKgsX5Vc[/media] Even in the hypothetical successful ban situation where all legal guns mysteriously vanish, shit like this starts popping up all over the place. Australia has tons of zip guns like this that keep getting confiscated from bikies. Also what this guy is doing is super illegal if these guns function since they're open-bolt. :v:

[QUOTE=Trebgarta;52875452]To be fair, they have access, but not proliferation. There is a direct correlation between proliferation and crime IIRC. Gun laws may reduce proliferation, not having gun laws not causing proliferation doesnt disprove that.[/QUOTE] That's precisely why many of us gun owners support measures that specifically address proliferation of illegal firearms. Go back a few pages and I posted a big list, but to summarize there are measures like funding the DoJ and ATF to crack down on the common sources of illegal firearms. Measures like those would be overwhelmingly supported by gun owners because they wouldn't affect us in the slightest, but they would be addressing the biggest sources of illegal firearm proliferation. Meanwhile, the legislation that Democratic lawmakers keep proposing is solely focused on blanket restrictions of access, targeting access to weapons rarely used in crime no less, while key sources of proliferation remain unaddressed.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52876210]Shit like this is why bans don't work [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHZSKgsX5Vc[/media] Even in the hypothetical successful ban situation where all legal guns mysteriously vanish, shit like this starts popping up all over the place. Australia has tons of zip guns like this that keep getting confiscated from bikies. Also what this guy is doing is super illegal if these guns function since they're open-bolt. :v:[/QUOTE] Okay come on now, that's a whole lot different than a production model semi automatic or full automatic

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52876591]Okay come on now, that's a whole lot different than a production model semi automatic or full automatic[/QUOTE] No it isn't, it still shoots a projectile so there is no difference. That's like saying a Luty SMG isn't a "real" gun because it uses hardware parts. Edit: Here, lets blur the lines between homemade and production model firearms. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pq1TXEE_QK4[/media]

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52876591]Okay come on now, that's a whole lot different than a production model semi automatic or full automatic[/QUOTE] Doesn't make it any less deadly when you get shot with it. Don't forget either the shovel AK where the receiver and mechanism were fashioned from a shovel blade. [img]https://i.imgur.com/RLCKIOn.jpg[/img] This is pretty advanced manufacture, but it's not hard to make a MAC-10. He literally made the one in the video out of barely-altered [I]garage door parts[/I], many of which were still recognizable. Your average gangbanger isn't going to go and make a MAC-10 from his garage door, but he'll buy it from someone who makes them to supply that market. The fact is you aren't going to keep guns out of the hands of people who are determined to get them. You can't do it here, you can't do it in Europe, you can't do it in Australia. No matter how hard you try, you will not delete guns. They're still there - they're just no longer in the hands of people who would follow the law anyway and not commit crimes in the first place. That's why it's much better and more sensible to target socioeconomic issues that cause people to commit crimes and go postal with or without guns in the first place. You will never catch 'em all, but you can make a bigger impact this way than by just chasing bans.

I still can't get over the fact the dude made that work from a fucking flat shovel, a barrel blank, and then cutting and welding the gas port and sights to it.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52876610]Doesn't make it any less deadly when you get shot with it. Don't forget either the shovel AK where the receiver and mechanism were fashioned from a shovel blade. [img]https://i.imgur.com/RLCKIOn.jpg[/img] This is pretty advanced manufacture, but it's not hard to make a MAC-10. He literally made the one in the video out of barely-altered [I]garage door parts[/I], many of which were still recognizable. Your average gangbanger isn't going to go and make a MAC-10 from his garage door, but he'll buy it from someone who makes them to supply that market. The fact is you aren't going to keep guns out of the hands of people who are determined to get them. You can't do it here, you can't do it in Europe, you can't do it in Australia. No matter how hard you try, you will not delete guns. They're still there - they're just no longer in the hands of people who would follow the law anyway and not commit crimes in the first place. That's why it's much better and more sensible to target socioeconomic issues that cause people to commit and go postal with or without guns in the first place. You will never catch 'em all, but you can make a bigger impact this way than by just chasing bans.[/QUOTE] I couldn't see the anvil at all and I assumed the vodka bottle was being used as a tripod

Fuck I thought it was laying on the tarp and the perspective of the picture was wonky, didn't see the anvil either

[QUOTE=purvisdavid1;52876620]I still can't get over the fact the dude made that work from a fucking flat shovel, a barrel blank, and then cutting and welding the gas port and sights to it.[/QUOTE] Speaking of that barrel blank, here's something we could maybe talk about: which parts of a firearm are tracked and regulated. In the US, the only part that's serialized, tracked and regulated is the receiver. You can literally 3D print a receiver, or hammer one out with an old shit-shovel and a jig. Now, barrels and bolts? Those are a bit harder - they have to stand up to pressure, in many cases considerable amounts. If these components fail on a firearm, there's a serious risk of injury. Just ask PrusseLusken, he got fucked up pretty bad by a .22 target rifle blowing up on him. In the US, you can buy barrels online, no background check. Same for bolts. I think the UK and Norway do it sensibly, in this regards. That said, manufacturing these things at home isn't impossible. You just need good steel and quality tools to start with. Hell, the hardest part of making a barrel is rifling it, and that can be done at least a couple of different ways using [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twwQbpwZz9w"]improvised rifling machines[/URL] or [URL="https://hackaday.com/2017/03/08/diy-barrel-rifling-with-3d-printed-help/"]electromachining and 3d printed jigs[/URL]. All that said, right now in the US, homemade firearms really aren't a problem. The majority of crime is committed with straw-purchased or stolen handguns. Want to solve that, push gun owners to properly secure their firearms (that means don't store them in the glove box of the fucking car), and crack down on straw-buyers. Right now, I believe the prosecution rate on straw-buying cases the ATF picks up is less than 1%. You're supposed to get 10 years for that crap, the vast majority of perpetrators don't even see the inside of a courtroom.

Isn't there also some guy on these forums who made a semiautomatic reproduction MG-3? :v:

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52876610]Doesn't make it any less deadly when you get shot with it. Don't forget either the shovel AK where the receiver and mechanism were fashioned from a shovel blade. [img]https://i.imgur.com/RLCKIOn.jpg[/img] This is pretty advanced manufacture, but it's not hard to make a MAC-10. He literally made the one in the video out of barely-altered [I]garage door parts[/I], many of which were still recognizable. Your average gangbanger isn't going to go and make a MAC-10 from his garage door, but he'll buy it from someone who makes them to supply that market. The fact is you aren't going to keep guns out of the hands of people who are determined to get them. You can't do it here, you can't do it in Europe, you can't do it in Australia. No matter how hard you try, you will not delete guns. They're still there - they're just no longer in the hands of people who would follow the law anyway and not commit crimes in the first place. That's why it's much better and more sensible to target socioeconomic issues that cause people to commit crimes and go postal with or without guns in the first place. You will never catch 'em all, but you can make a bigger impact this way than by just chasing bans.[/QUOTE] How prevalent are mass shootings using homemade guns in countries like the UK or Australia where guns are banned?

[QUOTE=squids_eye;52877808]How prevalent are mass shootings using homemade guns in countries like the UK or Australia where guns are banned?[/QUOTE] Good question. The answer, I believe, is in fact none. Part of that of course is because at this point they're harder to get, since you have to know people, which pushes mass-murderers towards other methods (like we saw with the Manchester bombing). The other thing is, most of these homemade firearms are found in the hands of gangs and drug dealers - criminal organizations with enough resources to support a clandestine workshop, or people with connections to those organizations. Neither category has any real interest in committing random acts of mass violence - they're business-people at the end of the day, and perpetrating mass, indiscriminate killings against the public is, to put it lightly, bad for business.

[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;52877265]Isn't there also some guy on these forums who made a semiautomatic reproduction MG-3? :v:[/QUOTE] Yes and its a MG-53.

I would be willing to say that both availability of guns and culture have an effect on the US. In terms of just violent crimes, the UK and the US aren't that different, we're both among the highest in the developed world. In terms of murder though, the US is an aberration - it's significantly higher than in the UK. I don't think it'd be wrong to say that firearms make it easier to kill people, that's what they were designed for (to be fair, crossbows also make it easier to kill someone, and they are legal in the UK). Addressing why people are violent (inequality has been shown to be a great driver of this, as one example) will have an effect, but I think the US will always struggle with gun violence, partly because of the proliferation of guns, but also because of the cultural attachments the US has to guns.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;52877043]Speaking of that barrel blank, here's something we could maybe talk about: which parts of a firearm are tracked and regulated. In the US, the only part that's serialized, tracked and regulated is the receiver. You can literally 3D print a receiver, or hammer one out with an old shit-shovel and a jig. Now, barrels and bolts? Those are a bit harder - they have to stand up to pressure, in many cases considerable amounts. If these components fail on a firearm, there's a serious risk of injury. Just ask PrusseLusken, he got fucked up pretty bad by a .22 target rifle blowing up on him. In the US, you can buy barrels online, no background check. Same for bolts. I think the UK and Norway do it sensibly, in this regards. That said, manufacturing these things at home isn't impossible. You just need good steel and quality tools to start with. Hell, the hardest part of making a barrel is rifling it, and that can be done at least a couple of different ways using [URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twwQbpwZz9w"]improvised rifling machines[/URL] or [URL="https://hackaday.com/2017/03/08/diy-barrel-rifling-with-3d-printed-help/"]electromachining and 3d printed jigs[/URL]. All that said, right now in the US, homemade firearms really aren't a problem. The majority of crime is committed with straw-purchased or stolen handguns. Want to solve that, push gun owners to properly secure their firearms (that means don't store them in the glove box of the fucking car), and crack down on straw-buyers. Right now, I believe the prosecution rate on straw-buying cases the ATF picks up is less than 1%. You're supposed to get 10 years for that crap, the vast majority of perpetrators don't even see the inside of a courtroom.[/QUOTE] barrels and bolts are wear parts. serializing and tracking wear parts would be a logistical nightmare

I'm back from ban-land to offer a formal apology to all the folk I pissed off here. Somebody should really keep me from having access to the internet at 2am because my attempts to argue points about things tend to devolve into self-righteous rants. So, again, sorry for being a shitwad. News like this just cuts me pretty deep and scares me a lot, was never my intention to annoy any of you guys over my own delirious ravings. I'll keep off the subject, in any case. An argument that makes me come across like a stuck-up prick isn't an argument worth having. All I can say is I hope somebody steps in and makes some proper changes to prevent this sort of tragedy from happening again.