'Mass shooting' reported at small town church in Texas - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=BusterBluth;52860737]I really can't believe we are having a gun vs knife argument and some of you are at the very least alluding that a knife has the same potential to cause widespread destruction as a rifle. Come on guys[/QUOTE] clearly you've never heard of the famous Essex Long Range Mass Knife Attack, where a 39-year-old British man pulled a knife while standing on a balcony and stabbed over fifty people in the square a hundred feet below him

Everyone knows we send our troops overseas with just knives, because knives are way more efficient, obviously. The terrorists with guns don't even stand a chance. [editline]6th November 2017[/editline] Don't even get me started on the boys we send over in just trucks. Killing machines that lot

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860769]Everyone knows we send our troops overseas with just knives, because knives are way more efficient, obviously. The terrorists with guns don't even stand a chance. [editline]6th November 2017[/editline] Don't even get me started on the boys we send over in just trucks. Killing machines that lot[/QUOTE] Once again unable to hold any kind of actual discussion, you resort to this nonsense to avoid having to make posts with value This is a long running pattern with you

I gave up on having an 'actual discussion' with people so deluded that their primary view point is spun of the fundamental belief that 'guns are cool', because that's a person I can't reach common ground with. Guns are so shit. Don't even try to tell me the thing that motivates your arguments is anything other than you really like guns. That's where this passion to defend their existence and ownership comes from [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Threadshitting" - Novangel))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860769]Everyone knows we send our troops overseas with just knives, because knives are way more efficient, obviously. The terrorists with guns don't even stand a chance. [editline]6th November 2017[/editline] Don't even get me started on the boys we send over in just trucks. Killing machines that lot[/QUOTE] Gotta love fallacious nonsense arguments.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860783]I gave up on having an 'actual discussion' with people so deluded that their primary view point is spun of the fundamental view that 'guns are cool', because that's a person I can't reach common ground with. Guns are so shit.[/QUOTE] I gave you a lot of stuff to engage with and you ignored it completely, preferring to pursue low hanging fruit like the dumb truck argument. God forbid you have to put any mental effort into the debate you started. I'm not going to humor you by returning your insult - just admit your platform has no substance. [quote]Don't even try to tell me the thing that motivates your arguments is anything other than you really like guns. That's where this passion to defend their existence and ownership comes from[/quote] They are fascinating little machines with a lot of very interesting history and quite a bit of fun to shoot. Yes, I really like guns - and my livelihood in no small part relies on them. They are important not only to me but many others. I know from extensive personal experience they do not have to be used to inflict violence, so I will never accept any argument to the tune that guns exist only to inflict violence and must therefore be eliminated. It's horse shit.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860783]I gave up on having an 'actual discussion' with people so deluded that their primary view point is spun of the fundamental belief that 'guns are cool', because that's a person I can't reach common ground with. Guns are so shit.[/quote] So instead of just leaving, you resort to shitposting? [quote] Don't even try to tell me the thing that motivates your arguments is anything other than you really like guns. That's where this passion to defend their existence and ownership comes from[/QUOTE] What about someone like me that does not own a single firearm yet defends the right to bear arms regardless?

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52860789]I gave you a lot of stuff to engage with and you ignored it completely, preferring to pursue low hanging fruit like the dumb truck argument. God forbid you have to put any mental effort into the debate you started.[/QUOTE] i've been here doing this for years, god knows why, it's not worth much effort after a certain point. it's like a routine. i try to point out that guns serve no other purpose other than destruction, the gun boys will always act like the Arbiters of Debate and deflect anything by going 'hey you're not debating properly' whenever i crack wise. this ain't a debate i'm not debating you anymore. i have before and i can't get through to that side and i'm really tired of it. i'll never understand defending something made to kill, so i'm just posting my thoughts, which are that guns are terrible!

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52860796]So instead of just leaving, you resort to shitposting? What about someone like me that does not own a single firearm yet defends the right to bear arms regardless?[/QUOTE] Very shortsighted

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;52860660]Not exactly. Several police departments have classes which teach officers that if someone has a knife, you want to keep three seconds of distance between you and them. You also want to keep at the very least ten to fifteen meters between them and you. The reality is that unless you are purely going on muscle memory, it's very likely that someone with a knife will easily put you down, even if you have a gun.[/QUOTE] The best example of this I've seen is from the bodycam of an officer arresting someone for a warrant [url=https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c2e_1509294600]NSFW[/url] Even with their guns out and knowing the guy had a knife, the suspect lunges at an officer and stabs him multiple times before they can hit him

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860783]I gave up on having an 'actual discussion' with people so deluded that their primary view point is spun of the fundamental view that 'guns are cool', because that's a person I can't reach common ground with. Guns are so shit.[/QUOTE] You must have reading comprehension issues or something because the basis of exactly no ones argument is "guns are cool". The basis for your argument seems to be hot air and smug condescension though.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860800]i've been here doing this for years, god knows why, it's not worth much effort after a certain point. it's like a routine. i try to point out that guns serve no other purpose other than destruction, the gun boys will always act like the Arbiters of Debate and deflect anything by going 'hey you're not debating properly' whenever i crack wise. this ain't a debate i'm not debating you anymore. i have before and i can't get through to that side and i'm really tired of it. i'll never understand defending something made to kill, so i'm just posting my thoughts, which are that guns are terrible![/QUOTE] The "gun boys" are always willing to discuss and share their thoughts openly and civilly exchange their viewpoints with people they don't necessarily agree with. You can't get through to us because you post like this, insult everyone you disagree with to the maximum extent possible without getting banned, and ramble like a child when you're called out on it. You have no valid arguments, no real reason to think the way you do, and nothing to support your beliefs - neither personal experience nor facts and statistics, simply the bottomless paranoia that everyone on the planet is secretly a violent killer waiting for a gun to murder with. You categorically disregard all opposing opinons and give no ground on anything at all. You are obsessed with mortality and the fear of something that cannot hurt you on its own. In short you are a foul condescending person and I despise your foul condescending ways.

[QUOTE=Amber902;52860807]You must have reading comprehension issues or something because the basis of exactly no ones argument is "guns are cool". The basis for your argument seems to be hot air and smug condescension though.[/QUOTE] it's not the basis of your argument, but it's the reason you're compelled to argue. you like your guns, and guns in general. unless you can name something else that ignites your passion to defend gun ownership specifically? everyone defends the stuff they like. or are we saying that you don't actually like guns now?

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860818]it's not the basis of your argument, but it's the reason you're compelled to argue. you like your guns, and guns in general. unless you can name something else that ignites your passion to defend gun ownership specifically? everyone defends the stuff they like.[/QUOTE] what difference does that make? you probably shouldn't get into a discussion with anyone about anything if that's your reasoning.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860800]i've been here doing this for years, god knows why, it's not worth much effort after a certain point. it's like a routine. i try to point out that guns serve no other purpose other than destruction, the gun boys will always act like the Arbiters of Debate and deflect anything by going 'hey you're not debating properly' whenever i crack wise. this ain't a debate i'm not debating you anymore. i have before and i can't get through to that side and i'm really tired of it. i'll never understand defending something made to kill, so i'm just posting my thoughts, which are that guns are terrible![/QUOTE] How can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you smugly debate for 3 pages then turn around and essentially state "Jokes on you I wasn't taking it seriously the whole time, I wasnt debating" and accompany said statement with random condescending jabs.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860818]it's not the basis of your argument, but it's the reason you're compelled to argue. you like your guns, and guns in general. unless you can name something else that ignites your passion to defend gun ownership specifically? everyone defends the stuff they like. or are we saying that you don't actually like guns now?[/QUOTE] So what I'm reading here is that because you can't retort to pro-gun arguments themselves, you resort to finding their personal reasons (which are all presumptuous without any fact or basis to prove) for arguing against you?

[QUOTE=Amber902;52860828]How can you expect anyone to take you seriously when you smugly debate for 3 pages then turn around and essentially state "Jokes on you I wasn't taking it seriously the whole time, I wasnt debating" and accompany said statement with random condescending jabs.[/QUOTE] oh I take the topic of gun owner ship very seriously, and my posts were serious, up until I realised I'm not going to get anywhere with people who just like guns, I can't change that. no "jokes on you". just your country i guess?

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860833]oh I take the topic of gun owner ship very seriously, and my posts were serious, up until I realised I'm not going to get anywhere with people who just like guns, I can't change that. no "jokes on you". just your country i guess?[/QUOTE] Why is it so hard for you to not act like a total jerk? Every time someone debates with you, you immediately go for incredibly nonsensical personal jabs, even as far as going after people’s nationality. I don’t get it.

Like seriously if you don’t want to debate and would rather just post about how much you dislike thing, and then act super upset when people disagree, why even go into that thread? It makes no sense.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52860832]So what I'm reading here is that because you can't retort to pro-gun arguments themselves, you resort to finding their personal reasons (which are all presumptuous without any fact or basis to prove) for arguing against you?[/QUOTE] I can and did! it had no effect, everyone else kept arguing anyway obviously. whats this 'you got busy and stopped posting, came back and saw it made no difference and gave up, ha that means I win' thing happening? are you so desperate for any minor victory after time and time again your hobby "tool" kills shitloads of people, and all you can say is "lets not put any fault on the thing create to make it incredibly easy" [QUOTE=Zillamaster55;52860840]Like seriously if you don’t want to debate and would rather just post about how much you dislike thing, and then act super upset when people disagree, why even go into that thread? It makes no sense.[/QUOTE] i started out ready. once i post am i locked into debate forever?

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860818]it's not the basis of your argument, but it's the reason you're compelled to argue. you like your guns, and guns in general. unless you can name something else that ignites your passion to defend gun ownership specifically? everyone defends the stuff they like. or are we saying that you don't actually like guns now?[/QUOTE] I defend gun ownership because guns dont have to be for violence. They're pieces of history and great deal of fun if used responsibly. But in this thread the cool factor of guns had no effect on my argument. The basis for my argument is my belief that banning guns alone is an ineffective long term solution to mass violence. Yeah the truck argument was kinsa dumb but it wasnt my main point. You made me double down on it because of your smug dismissal and condescending posts.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860841]I can and did! it had no effect, everyone else kept arguing anyway obviously.[B] whats this 'you got busy and stopped posting, came back and saw it made no difference and gave up, ha that means I win' thing happening?[/B] are you so desperate for any minor victory after time and time again your hobby "tool" kills shitloads of people, and all you can say is "lets not put any fault on the thing create to make it incredibly easy"[/QUOTE] What the ever fuck are you talking about :what:

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860841]I can and did! it had no effect, everyone else kept arguing anyway obviously. whats this 'you got busy and stopped posting, came back and saw it made no difference and gave up, ha that means I win' thing happening? are you so desperate for any minor victory after time and time again your hobby "tool" kills shitloads of people, and all you can say is "lets not put any fault on the thing create to make it incredibly easy"[/QUOTE] Nobody here is going on a victory dance. They’re wondering why you suddenly resort to low quality and honestly childish posts to clearly try and get someone to react negatively to you. You don’t have to concede or whatever, but like, think for a bit about how your posts sound compared to others. You don’t do yourself any favors by making yourself to be a victim

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860841]I can and did! it had no effect, everyone else kept arguing anyway obviously. whats this 'you got busy and stopped posting, came back and saw it made no difference and gave up, ha that means I win' thing happening? are you so desperate for any minor victory after time and time again your hobby "tool" kills shitloads of people, and all you can say is "lets not put any fault on the thing create to make it incredibly easy" i started out ready. once i post am i locked into debate forever?[/QUOTE] You are such a laughably deep well of bitterness and spite I wonder how you make it through day to day life Would it kill you to assign some value to the opinions of people you disagree with - people who have hands-on experience with the thing you're arguing about - and entertain what they have to say instead of just batting it aside and waving your dick around? You don't have to change your mind, but it would not be unhealthy for you to realize that people who don't share your opinions on everything aren't necessarily [I]literally mass murderers!!![/i]

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860841]I can and did! it had no effect, everyone else kept arguing anyway obviously. whats this 'you got busy and stopped posting, came back and saw it made no difference and gave up, ha that means I win' thing happening? are you so desperate for any minor victory after time and time again your hobby "tool" kills shitloads of people, and all you can say is "lets not put any fault on the thing create to make it incredibly easy"[/QUOTE] Your arguments were fallacious and presumptive ("You guys are just arguing because you think guns are cool") and your demeanor is condescending. Perhaps if you formulate arguments based on logic rather then what is clearly emotion then you'd gain more ground in these debates.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860841] i started out ready. once i post am i locked into debate forever?[/QUOTE] I’m not saying that. I’m saying that it does nobody any favors to just drop to near name calling and country trolling to try and get a rise out of people. If you just ducked out of the thread, and just kept your posts as is, I doubt anyone would be having this conversation right now

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860769]Everyone knows we send our troops overseas with just knives, because knives are way more efficient, obviously. The terrorists with guns don't even stand a chance. [editline]6th November 2017[/editline] Don't even get me started on the boys we send over in just trucks. Killing machines that lot[/QUOTE] You realize they carry knives and drive trucks too right

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52860100] For my closing argument I present the same graph I always present when arguing with you: [img]https://i.imgur.com/lp0TgV8.png[/img] It's tough to find an American equivalent to compare with directly but we also have a downward trend (curiously, sharper than yours in spite of everything): [img]https://i.imgur.com/cSBhljs.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] I don't really want to get into the whole gun discussion, but if that is the chart you whip out in every closing argument, you should probably have noticed by now that you're comparing absolute numbers to a rate. If you do the math, the per 100000 rate was approximately ~1.94 in 1994, but 1.18 in 2010. So I'd probably get a better chart next time you have this discussion. I'd also put forth the argument that a ban or buyback or whatever won't have immediate effects - illegal guns come from somewhere, and if you have a large legitimate gun market, you're gonna have a large illegal gun market. Cutting off the supply of legal guns will raise the price of a gun on the illegal market and make them less numerous over time. On a different note, I think it's kind of weird (and somehow not very surprising) how 9/11 basically sparked a decade of war (yeah okay more than that) operations half-way across the world, but 500 wounded in Vegas (and many other in similar attacks) doesn't even get a mental healthcare bill rushed through congress.

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;52861170]I don't really want to get into the whole gun discussion, but if that is the chart you whip out in every closing argument, you should probably have noticed by now that you're comparing absolute numbers to a rate. If you do the math, the per 100000 rate was approximately ~1.94 in 1994, but 1.18 in 2010. So I'd probably get a better chart next time you have this discussion. I'd also put forth the argument that a ban or buyback or whatever won't have immediate effects - illegal guns come from somewhere, and if you have a large legitimate gun market, you're gonna have a large illegal gun market. Cutting off the supply of legal guns will raise the price of a gun on the illegal market and make them less numerous over time. On a different note, I think it's kind of weird (and somehow not very surprising) how 9/11 basically sparked a decade of war (yeah okay more than that) operations half-way across the world, but 500 wounded in Vegas (and many other in similar attacks) doesn't even get a mental healthcare bill rushed through congress.[/QUOTE] Theres literally no mental health bill that wouldve stopped Vegas unless you make it mandatory that all +300million citizens are forced to regularly have mental health checkups. Even that wouldn't have stopped Vegas. Also, rushing bills through congress in the wake of an event is a great way to get terrible shit like the Patriot act.

[QUOTE=-nesto-;52861186]Theres literally no mental health bill that wouldve stopped Vegas unless you make it mandatory that all +300million citizens are forced to regularly have mental health checkups. Even that wouldn't have stopped Vegas. Also, rushing bills through congress in the wake of an event is a great way to get terrible shit like the Patriot act.[/QUOTE] I guess I should specify, I'm more talking about the total non-reaction rather than any specific solution, whereas when something seems to be able to be accomplished through military means, the US is pretty quick to act.