'Mass shooting' reported at small town church in Texas - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=snookypookums;52859215]I survived two separate terrorist bombings within the span of six months nearly a decade ago. If your cousin brother and his girlfriend haven't done so already, please ask them to seek PTSD therapy ASAP. It helps, trust me.[/QUOTE] I know this is late, but are you talking about the November 2008 attacks in Mumbai? I was in Goa on a school picnic when I heard the news and had a mini heart attack when I realized it happened during my dad's work hours. As luck would have it, he called in sick that day. I know a couple of people who had to both deal with the loss of loved ones and live with the trauma that night caused them. I hope you're doing better, snooky. <3

[QUOTE=-nesto-;52861186]Theres literally no mental health bill that wouldve stopped Vegas unless you make it mandatory that all +300million citizens are forced to regularly have mental health checkups. Even that wouldn't have stopped Vegas. Also, rushing bills through congress in the wake of an event is a great way to get terrible shit like the Patriot act.[/QUOTE] Ok so it might not have stopped that one but there are others, like this one, which might have been picked up on if yall had a better mental health thing. Don't have to stop all of them just make them less common/mitigate the damage they can do. More on topic: This is another terrible event. I hope the injured people recover, the families of those murdered get all the support and closure they need and that nobody here on facepunch was directly affected by this. Stay safe

Do we just have to accept that these mass shootings are going to happen every once in a while? Gun control won't help, apparently; even mental health checks aren't going to solve all the problems.

[QUOTE=Dr. Ethan Asia;52861468]Do we just have to accept that these mass shootings are going to happen every once in a while? Gun control won't help, apparently; even mental health checks aren't going to solve all the problems.[/QUOTE] You'll never have a perfectly safe system but you can take measures to minimise danger of these things happening and/or mitigate the damage they can do when they do happen

have to say it's pretty frustrating whenever a mass shooting like this happens in the US and the immediate conversation is "hey let's not politicize it. let's not consider trying to do anything to avoid this in future. let's just keep having people get shot to death whenever someone decides that it's gonna happen" like, literally every time. "hey what if we did something about the fact that it's really easy to get your hands on firear-" "No." "okay what about mental hea-" "Not feasible. Sorry." like fucking hell guys, maybe some of the pro gun people could suggest some shit or help make the ideas thrown out more workable instead of just telling people trying to stop more people from dying the exact same way to go fuck themselves

[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;52861477]have to say it's pretty frustrating whenever a mass shooting like this happens in the US and the immediate conversation is "hey let's not politicize it. let's not consider trying to do anything to avoid this in future. let's just keep having people get shot to death whenever someone decides that it's gonna happen"[/QUOTE] We've had guns since our inception and the frequency of attacks only started ramping within the last decade or so. In my opinion is the mix of poor socio-economic conditions and the media circus around every attack that's made them so commonplace. The media especially has played it up to the point where people think mass shootings are a major cause of death in the US, when in reality they're barely a blip compared to other gun crime, let alone any forms of murder or any other form of death.

Guns are cool though

[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;52861170]I don't really want to get into the whole gun discussion, but if that is the chart you whip out in every closing argument, you should probably have noticed by now that you're comparing absolute numbers to a rate. If you do the math, the per 100000 rate was approximately ~1.94 in 1994, but 1.18 in 2010. So I'd probably get a better chart next time you have this discussion. I'd also put forth the argument that a ban or buyback or whatever won't have immediate effects - illegal guns come from somewhere, and if you have a large legitimate gun market, you're gonna have a large illegal gun market. Cutting off the supply of legal guns will raise the price of a gun on the illegal market and make them less numerous over time. On a different note, I think it's kind of weird (and somehow not very surprising) how 9/11 basically sparked a decade of war (yeah okay more than that) operations half-way across the world, but 500 wounded in Vegas (and many other in similar attacks) doesn't even get a mental healthcare bill rushed through congress.[/QUOTE] I know the charts don't exactly compare, normally the Aus chart is the only one I post when dealing with Rusty but I decided to throw in the US chart because I saw it while googling and thought the spikes were interesting. The 1980s were apparently a very violent time but I don't think anyone remembers them that way. Anyway, I don't think Australia's lower murder rate has anything to do with the gun ban. Australian society is more stable and well adjusted than ours by far. [editline]6th November 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=evlbzltyr;52861477]have to say it's pretty frustrating whenever a mass shooting like this happens in the US and the immediate conversation is "hey let's not politicize it. let's not consider trying to do anything to avoid this in future. let's just keep having people get shot to death whenever someone decides that it's gonna happen" like, literally every time. "hey what if we did something about the fact that it's really easy to get your hands on firear-" "No." "okay what about mental hea-" "Not feasible. Sorry." like fucking hell guys, maybe some of the pro gun people could suggest some shit or help make the ideas thrown out more workable instead of just telling people trying to stop more people from dying the exact same way to go fuck themselves[/QUOTE] When pro-gun people suggest regulations they're usually glossed over - I offered an idea a couple pages ago which could have prevented this specific shooting at least among others and got no engagement on it. This really boils down to anti-gun lawmakers wanting to take more all the time without giving anything back. A lot of regulations are in place currently that turned out to just be annoying to people who follow them and had no impact on crime rates. Showing an openness to compromise and a genuine interest in fairness by repealing some of those regulations in exchange for new ideas would be an ideal approach. The pro-gun side has dug its heels in and refuses to accept any further legislation, regardless of how sensible, to avoid opening the door to total confiscation. In other words if anti-gun lawmakers were more open to compromise and cooperation I think we would be in a better position, but everyone's gone so far off the deep end I don't see that happening.

[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;52861477]have to say it's pretty frustrating whenever a mass shooting like this happens in the US and the immediate conversation is "hey let's not politicize it. let's not consider trying to do anything to avoid this in future. let's just keep having people get shot to death whenever someone decides that it's gonna happen" like, literally every time. "hey what if we did something about the fact that it's really easy to get your hands on firear-" "No." "okay what about mental hea-" "Not feasible. Sorry." like fucking hell guys, maybe some of the pro gun people could suggest some shit or help make the ideas thrown out more workable instead of just telling people trying to stop more people from dying the exact same way to go fuck themselves[/QUOTE] I love how The Onion always, [I]always[/I] reposts this one story with just a few words swapped out. [media]https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/927305485119840257[/media]

[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;52861477]have to say it's pretty frustrating whenever a mass shooting like this happens in the US and the immediate conversation is "hey let's not politicize it. let's not consider trying to do anything to avoid this in future. let's just keep having people get shot to death whenever someone decides that it's gonna happen" like, literally every time. "hey what if we did something about the fact that it's really easy to get your hands on firear-" "No." "okay what about mental hea-" "Not feasible. Sorry." like fucking hell guys, maybe some of the pro gun people could suggest some shit or help make the ideas thrown out more workable instead of just telling people trying to stop more people from dying the exact same way to go fuck themselves[/QUOTE] We've compromised enough. Hughes Amendment, NFA, GCA, why should we compromise further? Criminals don't get hurt by gun control we do. We came up with work around to having out rights infringed and now states are banning those too, didn't even bothering trying to come up with a solution for everyone, just banned them. So tell me again why we should talk about gun control when we do compromise and gun control advocates just keep trying to find new things to take away.

[QUOTE=Rusty100;52860833]oh I take the topic of gun owner ship very seriously, and my posts were serious, up until I realised I'm not going to get anywhere with people who just like guns, I can't change that. no "jokes on you". just your country i guess?[/QUOTE] There's definitely pro-gun people who don't care for guns. I'd fall into that category. At the very least, guns are still a necessity in rural areas because of how vast the US is. When it takes emergency services 45 minutes to get to my house, I'm gonna get a gun whether I like it or not. The anti-gun people overseas always want to compare us to them, but this is an issue a lot of those countries don't have to deal with and it just comes down to geography.

[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;52861477]like, literally every time. "hey what if we did something about the fact that it's really easy to get your hands on firear-" "No." "okay what about mental hea-" "Not feasible. Sorry." like fucking hell guys, maybe some of the pro gun people could suggest some shit or help make the ideas thrown out more workable instead of just telling people trying to stop more people from dying the exact same way to go fuck themselves[/QUOTE] Every single gun debate thread is chock-full of gun owners providing suggestions to mitigate gun violence. Here's a few off the top of my head from previous threads: -Allocate the DoJ funds specifically for prosecution of straw purchase, the #1 source of illegal firearms, but which they currently lack the resources to pursue. -Allocate the ATF funds specifically for prosecution of unscrupulous FFL holders, the #2 source of illegal firearms, but which they currently lack the resources to pursue. -Raise liability on stolen firearms, or introduce safe storage laws. -Further restrict handguns, the overwhelmingly most common weapons used in crime. -Open the NICS to non-FFLs, then mandate background checks on all sales. -Fix the broken interaction between state and federal databases (due to HIPAA) which often causes mental issues to not be reported to the federal background check system. -Address suicide in some meaningful capacity. Address gang violence in some meaningful capacity. These are the social issues that are the most common root causes of gun violence. Like, I'm sorry that these aren't simple 'ban all guns!' or 'ban assault weapons!' soundbites, but that's because these suggestions are born from an understanding of the issue and the statistically-relevant factors. And we've also helpfully pointed out numerous laws on the books that do nothing to make people safer, but a repeal of which could be used as a bargaining chip to pass any of the above, should you encounter resistance. Do you understand how frustrating it is for us to explain why simplistic solutions won't work, provide some alternatives that address the root causes and common methods of gun violence, suggest means of compromise that could get such measures through Congress, and then be told we're not trying to help? What more do you want from us?

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;52860620]Hard right news sites are reporting that the shooter was an antifa member who vowed to start a civil war. This shit is fucking disgusting, I guess after the Vegas shooting when they immediately said it was a Muslim terrorist, they've decided to shift the blame to the left if the perpetrator is white.[/QUOTE] There are also conspiracies floating around on Facebook claiming that they waited to reveal his name while the FBI wiped his social media accounts, and yet people still somehow "know" that he was part of ANTIFA despite *very* likely not having any idea who he was, or that he even existed, until his name was released.

Speaking of Nice, anyone know the ultimate fate of [URL="https://vgy.me/RA16sF.png"]this guy[/URL] from the infamous "front view" footage?

I don't think BCDs preclude you from firearms ownership, no. I don't think you can get them without committing a crime, though. They usually entail doing time in the military slammer.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52862027]I don't think BCDs preclude you from firearms ownership, no. I don't think you can get them without committing a crime, though. They usually entail doing time in the military slammer.[/QUOTE] Apparently he had some family violence charges and I think that is something that restricts your gun ownership.

[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;52861477]like, literally every time. "hey what if we did something about the fact that it's really easy to get your hands on firear-" "No." "okay what about mental hea-" "Not feasible. Sorry." like fucking hell guys, maybe some of the pro gun people could suggest some shit or help make the ideas thrown out more workable instead of just telling people trying to stop more people from dying the exact same way to go fuck themselves[/QUOTE] Who are you talking to? I am a supporter of the 2nd amendment and I am totally in favor of additional controls making it harder to get access to certain types of firearms, and I am totally in favor of improving mental healthcare in the U.S. We clearly have a problem, but it seems from my position, saying anything other than "we should remove all guns in the U.S." paints me as some sort of villain who has no interest in preventing tragedy, and that's just plain wrong. Catbarf said it better, but it bears repeating. Saying "well [persons from this group] are stonewalling any attempt to solve the problem" is at best disingenuous and I will always argue it's part of the "big picture" problem in America. Gun owners are sick of the feel-good legislation that does nothing but penalize legal gun owners, so of course we're going to get defensive when you try to say "more!" We don't need more laws, we need [I]good, well thought out[/I] laws.

[QUOTE=MR-X;52862054]Apparently he had some family violence charges and I think that is something that restricts your gun ownership.[/QUOTE] Domestic violence charges will exclude you from firearm ownership, iirc.

[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;52861477] like, literally every time. "hey what if we did something about the fact that it's really easy to get your hands on firear-" "No." "okay what about mental hea-" "Not feasible. Sorry." like fucking hell guys, maybe some of the pro gun people could suggest some shit or help make the ideas thrown out more workable instead of just telling people trying to stop more people from dying the exact same way to go fuck themselves[/QUOTE] I read these threads whenever they happen, and from where i'm sitting it sounds more like "Literally every time, there are guys who are pro gun who suggest things based on statistics, facts, and reasonable points of view that are completely ignored so i can continue to be condescending and talk down to them as if they were small, retarded children and not fully functioning adults who i can speak to and reason with, because thats too hard". Like, christ, i'm not even fully sure how i feel about all of this, but its really fucking annoying that this happens [i]EVERY[/i] thread. It seems to me that there are some people who dont actually want to engage in a discussion and [I]just [/I]want to bitch about guns while pretending they want to talk about it.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;52862326]I read these threads whenever they happen, and from where i'm sitting it sounds more like "Literally every time, there are guys who are pro gun who suggest things based on statistics, facts, and reasonable points of view that are completely ignored so i can continue to be condescending and talk down to them as if they were small, retarded children and not fully functioning adults who i can speak to and reason with, because thats too hard". Like, christ, i'm not even fully sure how i feel about all of this, but its really fucking annoying that this happens [i]EVERY[/i] thread. It seems to me that there are some people who dont actually want to engage in a discussion and [I]just [/I]want to bitch about guns while pretending they want to talk about it.[/QUOTE] Are these things based on statistics, facts and reasonable points of view that are completely ignored solutions or just counter points to better healthcare and varying degrees of gun control?

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;52862347]Are these things based on statistics, facts and reasonable points of view that are completely ignored solutions or just counter points to better healthcare and varying degrees of gun control?[/QUOTE] This guy seems pretty reasonable based on what i'm aware of: [QUOTE=catbarf;52861719] -Allocate the DoJ funds specifically for prosecution of straw purchase, the #1 source of illegal firearms, but which they currently lack the resources to pursue. -Allocate the ATF funds specifically for prosecution of unscrupulous FFL holders, the #2 source of illegal firearms, but which they currently lack the resources to pursue. -Raise liability on stolen firearms, or introduce safe storage laws. -Further restrict handguns, the overwhelmingly most common weapons used in crime. -Open the NICS to non-FFLs, then mandate background checks on all sales. -Fix the broken interaction between state and federal databases (due to HIPAA) which often causes mental issues to not be reported to the federal background check system. -Address suicide in some meaningful capacity. Address gang violence in some meaningful capacity. These are the social issues that are the most common root causes of gun violence. [/QUOTE] And if you think he isnt, talk to him about it, he seems open to discussion. What i'm trying to say is dont ignore shit and then complain about it.

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;52862347]Are these things based on statistics, facts and reasonable points of view that are completely ignored solutions[/QUOTE] Did you know that the Obama administration, in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting, funded the CDC to conduct research on addressing gun violence? It was a [B]Big Deal[/B] at the time, as it was hailed as Congress overcoming the supposed ban on CDC gun violence research, and the administration eagerly awaited the results. The CDC worked for [I]over a year[/I], compiling research from around the country, and eventually released a comprehensive 121-page report. The report concluded that existing efforts at gun control didn't help, common scapegoats like assault weapons weren't an effective means of addressing gun violence, and that the best way to reduce gun violence was to address the underlying societal issues (like suicide, gang violence, and lack of mental healthcare). It also identified secondary contributing factors, such as some of the ones I noted in my previous post, that have historically not been addressed by gun control measures. You'd think that a giant report from the CDC identifying specific measures that could curtail gun violence would be of significant interest to lawmakers interested in solving the problem, right? The study was quietly dropped and the Obama administration never mentioned it again. So yes, there absolutely are solutions based on statistics, facts, and reason that are completely ignored, because the goal of most Congressmen isn't to fix the issue, it's to score political points for their side with symbolic measures that do little more than make a statement. Find me a Democrat who opposes reactionary assault weapon bans, or a Republican who supports government spending on mental healthcare, and I'll say you've found someone who really cares about solving the problem more than partisan loyalties. The unfortunate fact is that they're a minority on both sides.

[QUOTE=catbarf;52862423]Find me a Democrat who opposes reactionary assault weapon bans[/QUOTE] Doesn't Bernie oppose AWBs? :v:

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52862430]Doesn't Bernie oppose AWBs? :v:[/QUOTE] IIRC, he did. From what I've heard him say, he seems to understand a lot of the nuance in American gun ownership, and the fact that what works for a rural New England state isn't necessarily what works in Chicago. I would characterize Bernie as someone who actually cares about solving the problem. So, of course, he was treated as a gun-loving NRA sellout by the left, and a gun-grabbing communist by the right, because this ridiculous tribalism has absolutely no room for moderates.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52862430]Doesn't Bernie oppose AWBs? :v:[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-for-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban"]As a Senator and candidate, he was and still is in favor of an AWB.[/URL] Bernie has voted in favor of a [URL="http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-for-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban"]nationwide ban[/URL] on assault weapons, a [URL="http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm"]nationwide ban[/URL] on high-capacity magazines of over ten rounds, and nationwide [URL="http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-for-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban"]expanded background checks[/URL] that address unsafe loopholes. From his viewpoints and talks, he really does care about finding a middle ground. That middle ground saw a lot of kickback from party-line Democrats.

I like Bernie - if nothing else I trust he would give gun owners a platform and consider our viewpoints. From what I recall he was pro-AWB at first but retracted his support after listening to counter arguments. That is the mark of a good politician. Like you said, that makes him an enemy to both sides rather than a friend to both. American politics are stupid. [QUOTE=Gbps;52862465][URL="http://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/sanders-votes-for-background-checks-assault-weapons-ban"]As a Senator and candidate, he was and still is in favor of an AWB.[/URL][/QUOTE] I thought I'd read or heard from him differently - that is disappointing. Reading [url=http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm]this page[/url] he mostly has reasonable stances, but I was under the impression he was anti-AWB. Feature bans are and always will be stupid reactionary tripe.

[QUOTE=evlbzltyr;52861477]have to say it's pretty frustrating whenever a mass shooting like this happens in the US and the immediate conversation is "hey let's not politicize it. let's not consider trying to do anything to avoid this in future. let's just keep having people get shot to death whenever someone decides that it's gonna happen" like, literally every time. "hey what if we did something about the fact that it's really easy to get your hands on firear-" "No." "okay what about mental hea-" "Not feasible. Sorry." like fucking hell guys, maybe some of the pro gun people could suggest some shit or help make the ideas thrown out more workable instead of just telling people trying to stop more people from dying the exact same way to go fuck themselves[/QUOTE] I'd like to point out, I'm ok with people politicizing gun laws because obviously that is as political as you can get, no one is saying we shouldn't politicize or ignore the gun problem. I'm not ok with people politicizing shootouts. you can use them as a discussion point because obviously they need to be dealt with, but I'm tired of the same bullshit that always gets spouted before the events are even finished occurring. Or god forbid some redneck is proud of being a 2nd amendment supporter. We should use them as a means to look at the bigger picture and usually that doesn't happen, people like to just blame guns themselves as if its the guns that are making people commit murders. People do this exact same shit with video games, and music. It's sensationalist bullshit and that's all it is. All of this can be directly linked to a mental health issue and an issue of rising political tensions, among other things. So there are a shit load of things that you can totally argue validly, among the shootings. My personal stance is that I believe that home defense with a gun should be an accepted law, within cities will be decided by state, and that bans on certain forms of guns or items are bullshit because someone whose really willing to kill can easily go out of their way to break that law regardless. If you're willing to murder a crowd of people I don't think you're going to worry about using illegal bump stocks and larger magazines, in fact that's probably the last thing you care about. Adding worthless paperwork isn't going to stop black markets, we can't even stop the drug war, which is a complete and absolute joke. Banning magazines of a certain size is only going to make people think they're safe. Bump stocks and full autos will, like, clearly need massive regulation, because fuck that. Background checks and some smart regulations can probably save a lot of lives. It's pretty obvious you shouldn't have a gun if you have a history of brutally slapping the shit out of your family of course. The conservatives and democrats both want the same general means of safety however they both have different ways of going about it. Democrats don't want to just outright ban guns across the board and conservatives want to preserve the ability to use firearms as they are intended and function as produced.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;52862356]This guy seems pretty reasonable based on what i'm aware of: And if you think he isnt, talk to him about it, he seems open to discussion. What i'm trying to say is dont ignore shit and then complain about it.[/QUOTE] Aye that is a good post, as is his post below yours. I'm a brit so I don't wanna get too preachy since I know guns are part of your culture. The post does allude to some gun control but I think the sheer number mean any attempts would be near futile. Digging the addressing of social issues too. I see myself as "pro gun control" but catbarfs post seems pretty agreeable to me and I don't think I could possibly suggest a better solution (for the US at least, I'm strictly against more guns in in circulation by the UK public, though I wouldn't mind more varied gun clubs, I like shotgun shooting and I'd like to try rifles and pistols) I suppose one of the issues in the US is the sheer rich variety both of lifestyles ( people hunting, urban gangs, self defence in home, self defence vs bears, collectors, hobby shooters, larp/militias) and making enforceable laws to suit all of them I think the politicisation of guns and healthcare mean that, practically, nothing will be done anytime soon. Which is a shame coz catbarf has shown there is firm middle ground to stand on just peeps are afraid of giving an inch to lose a mile

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[QUOTE=Trebgarta;52863721][media]https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/status/927679661148200960[/media] :goodjob:[/QUOTE] Gun Control doesn't work when we don't bother to enforce our existing laws.