Gamers harass woman online over Mass Effect Andromeda - Sensationalist Headlines

I don't recall any proof that she worked on Andromeda, simply at EA. Props to those calling out the shit source first time around.

[QUOTE=Fangz;51984265]Regardless if she and/or Bioware are lying or not, she doesn't deserve the rape and death threats she has been getting. This should be obvious, no doubt.[/QUOTE] What advantage would bioware have in lying though

[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;51984292]They never should have been "hunting down" the person "responsible" in the first place.[/QUOTE] Yeah pretty much, I said as much in the original thread. If people are so mad about "Gamers are cunts!" articles, then perhaps they should be mad at the gamers who are being cunts?. I might be wrong about this, but you don't really see this kind of shit happen so often among fans of other media. When was the last time dissatisfied viewers tracked down the dude who did a film's bad CGI?, Or launched DDOS attacks on a critics website?.

The point is that women in the gaming industry aren't treated appropriately; they're targeted in gender-specific ways. If you want to argue semantics, Facepunch users (probably) didn't outright harass her. But the general attitude of the gaming community is very sexist. You're pulling the "not [I]all[/I] x-people" argument despite the tons of flaws with it. The lengths you guys are going to to dodge the issue is only demonstrating the problem.

[QUOTE=Pascall;51984310]She is being harassed though. The mention of a few FP members being involved doesn't really matter beyond someone's attempt at implicating members of this community. But she is being harassed, regardless, by other people in other places. It's happening. I don't know why there's any argument at all lol.[/QUOTE] The argument exists because "gamers harrass women" in a world where everyone with any public attention gets some amount of harrassment on social media implies that gamers are special and have some greater problem going on. It leads back to the "gamers are misogynists" thing. There could be an article about monstanto getting flak from farmers. If i then title my article with "cucumber farmers harrass white people" because some percentage of those farmers with legitimate complaints happened to be cucumber farmers and some percentage of them sent threatening messages to people who happened to be white at monsanto it implies that for some reason cucumber farmers have an anti-white bias. The important bit being that "cucumber farmers harrass white people" would still be a factually correct title. This isnt a hard concept lol. Also you need to learn to form an argument 3 lines long without forgetting what your first line was.

[QUOTE=Pascall;51984310]I don't know why there's any argument at all lol.[/QUOTE] This post is what's being argued against. [QUOTE=Dr.C;51984216]Gamers including people [B]on this forum DID harass that woman. You can go see the thread yourself,[/B] it's probably not even on the second page yet.[/QUOTE] Honestly I really don't get what you are intending with your previous posts.

[QUOTE=Talishmar;51984319]I don't recall any proof that she worked on Andromeda, simply at EA. Props to those calling out the shit source first time around.[/QUOTE] [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1557292&p=51984273&viewfull=1#post51984273"]You probably missed this.[/URL] She worked on something related to the game for certain, but as far as I can tell not all that directly. I think the gist is that she wrote she was responsible for the animations on her Twitter profile and a certain trash blogger used that to kick off a wave of harassment against her.

[QUOTE=Pascall;51984310]She is being harassed though. The mention of a few FP members being involved doesn't really matter beyond someone's attempt at implicating members of this community. But she is being harassed, regardless, by other people in other places. It's happening. I don't know why there's any argument at all lol.[/QUOTE] I don't think they were disagreeing with you then, I think they were just trying to call out that post implicating users here. There's no doubt she received harassment, at least I hope people aren't trying to argue that.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;51984211]Either she's lying about her own position and therefore baiting on purpose or bioware is lying and leaving her out to dry instead of sticking up for their own decisions. Also, i guess this is going to become another "person suddenly thrust into spotlight learns that there are always a small percentage of people who will send rude or outright threatening comments to everyone with any amount of public attention and uses this to deflect from the things the majority gives a shit about" story. just to get this nonsense out of the way. "gamers harrass women" is like saying "gamers harrass men" or "cucumber farmers harrass white people". We currently live in a world where anyone with an ounce of public attention will received a small percentage of "harrassment" messages often mixed in with positive messages and negative criticism, both of which are valid. Taking this reality into account people trying to spread the narrative that "gamers harrass women" are trying to make the point that gamers are extra evil or specifically anti-women which i personally believe is false but more importantly all these stories provide is anecdotes. It also misses the implication that if gamers are inherently more prone to being dicks on the internet then female gamers are included in this group... where kotaku is involved they tend to also include any kind of criticism in that "harrassment" category aswell.[/QUOTE] Ignoring the fact that women in such situations in the gaming world receive harassment in specific types [I]because they are women[/I] is pretty much ignoring the root issue tbh. When was the last time a male at the center of some gaming controversy received rape threats?

[QUOTE=Beetle179;51984335]The point is that women in the gaming industry aren't treated appropriately; they're targeted in gender-specific ways. If you want to argue semantics, Facepunch users (probably) didn't outright harass her. But the general attitude of the gaming community is very sexist. You're pulling the "not [I]all[/I] x-people" argument despite the tons of flaws with it. The lengths you guys are going to to dodge the issue is only demonstrating the problem.[/QUOTE] It's not sexist. If it was a male they would have done the same thing. The article is misinformation bullshit and the source is notorious for being sexist itself. The problem is gaming culture, they will attack and hound on fucking anything. If it upsets somebody they will abuse the hell out of it. It's real easy to get attention when your harassing somebody when your being sexist or racist. It's the same people pulling this shit. That's one of the things I will fight at, gaming culture is not sexist. It's the trolls who will use anything against anyone. [editline]a[/editline] Clarification : the gaming community in a whole being sexist.

[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;51984357]It's not sexist. If it was a male they would have done the same thing. The article is misinformation bullshit and the source is notorious for being sexist itself. The problem is gaming culture, they will attack and hound on fucking anything. If it upsets somebody they will abuse the hell out of it. It's real easy to get attention when your harassing somebody when your being sexist or racist. It's the same people pulling this shit. That's one of the things I will fight at, gaming culture is not sexist. It's the trolls who will use anything against anyone.[/QUOTE] They're using the fact that she is a woman against her. That is sexist. They are specifically targeting her for being a woman.

[QUOTE=luverofJ!93;51984356]When was the last time a male at the center of some gaming controversy received rape threats?[/QUOTE] Change rape to death and that's pretty much every single major youtuber.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;51984336]The argument exists because "gamers harrass women" in a world where everyone with any public attention gets some amount of harrassment on social media implies that gamers are special and have some greater problem going on. It leads back to the "gamers are misogynists" thing. There could be an article about monstanto getting flak from farmers. If i then title my article with "cucumber farmers harrass white people" because some percentage of those farmers with legitimate complaints happened to be cucumber farmers and some percentage of them sent threatening messages to people who happened to be white at monsanto it implies that for some reason cucumber farmers have an anti-white bias. This isnt a hard concept lol.[/QUOTE] Putting "some" gamers or "a collection of individuals who game" isn't really gonna convince someone with a seething hatred or distaste for "gamers" as a collective that they don't suck if they're really adamant on holding onto their bias. Generalization is bad. Obvious problem with media. But it's not like a solution is simple as changing the verbage because there's always gonna be someone who doesn't care about the verbage and is gonna hate the generalized demographic anyway. I mean if you wanna change the way the articles are titled then sure, I can see people wanting that to be a thing that happens, but honestly, I'm not someone who goes around calling myself a "gamer" anyway? So if that's a serious part of your identity then sure. Advocate for changing how the media presents it. But the thing is, I'd say that's a secondary issue to the harassment of a developer going on in this article but that's just me.

[QUOTE=Beetle179;51984364]They're using the fact that she is a woman against her. That is sexist. They are specifically targeting her for being a woman.[/QUOTE] [quote]But the general attitude of the gaming community is very sexist[/quote] I was getting mad at this stupid, stupid statement. Ralphretort is sexist and this is probably sexism influenced, there is no denying that. Read my comment again. [editline]a[/editline] I added clarification as I can see how that would be confusing.

[QUOTE=luverofJ!93;51984356]Ignoring the fact that women in such situations in the gaming world receive harassment in specific types [I]because they are women[/I] is pretty ignoring the root issue tbh. When was the last time a male at the center of some gaming controversy received rape threats?[/QUOTE] If you're going to make that argument you're going to need to do it in a thread not based on an anecdotal situation whether or not you think it's true. Men in the games industry receive plenty of threats, obviously they don't receive specifically rape threats because trolls pick out whatever the most harmful angle of attack is for every aspect of you, and for women that's one potential target. For men "cuck" is a common thing, see anthony burch the now world famous cuck for a continuous and massively widespread example of a "male" receiving death threats and harrassment. There are countless other examples but there is a feedback loop, because modern gaming media only reports on women who receive threats it attracts more attention to them and in turn they receive more harrassment proportional to that attention.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;51984381]If you're going to make that argument you're going to need to do it in a thread not based on an anecdotal situation whether or not you think it's true. Men in the games industry receive plenty of threats, obviously they don't receive specifically rape threats because trolls pick out whatever the most harmful angle of attack is for every aspect of you, and for women that's one potential target. For men "cuck" is a common thing, see anthony burch the now world famous cuck for a continuous and massively widespread of a "male" receiving death threats and harrassment. There are countless other examples but there is a feedback loop, because modern gaming media only reports on women who receive threats it attracts more attention to them and in turn they receive more harrassment proportional to that attention.[/QUOTE] Can we just purge the internet of trolls? There's gotta be a switch to flick somewhere.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51984387]Can we just purge the internet of trolls? There's gotta be a switch to flick somewhere.[/QUOTE] You could try to make it mandatorily not-anonymous to get rid of 'trolling' specifically, but afaik people who use their real names online actually tend to me [I]more[/I] vicious. (This isn't a serious suggention, just pointing out the flaw with what many people try to do in that regard.)

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51984387]Can we just purge the internet of trolls? There's gotta be a switch to flick somewhere.[/QUOTE] Yeah it's the off switch.

[URL="https://www.twitch.tv/videos/119561224"]I found this[/URL] what the fuck is happening?

I think what I am getting at is whenever these situations happen it's always "irrefutable proof that gaming culture is sexist!" I really, really hate that. What happened here was wrong, stupid and most likely sexism influenced. But don't throw us all under the bus. [editline]a[/editline] The problem is, is that gaming tabloids are going to eat this up and use it as fuel for that fire, and when people get inevitably angry, it might blow up into the whole situation we had before.

[QUOTE=Pascall;51984368]Putting "some" gamers or "a collection of individuals who game" isn't really gonna convince someone with a seething hatred or distaste for "gamers" as a collective that they don't suck if they're really adamant on holding onto their bias. Generalization is bad. Obvious problem with media. But it's not like a solution is simple as changing the verbage because there's always gonna be someone who doesn't care about the verbage and is gonna hate the generalized demographic anyway. I mean if you wanna change the way the articles are titled then sure, I can see people wanting that to be a thing that happens, but honestly, I'm not someone who goes around calling myself a "gamer" anyway? So if that's a serious part of your identity then sure. Advocate for changing how the media presents it. But the thing is, I'd say that's a secondary issue to the harassment of a developer going on in this article but that's just me.[/QUOTE] To write a story about this kind of harassment while avoiding this issue i would title it "Bioware Employee receives harassment after being falsely identified as lead dev" No implication that she is being harrassed only because she is a women, no implication that gamers are specially evil. everyone has their own opinions about what things are important, i've just been seeing this kind of headline for a long time trying to play identity politics and it's grating. I in no way think anyone deserves any amount of harrassment, threats or a bunch of rude "fuck you" comments. Negative criticism she deserved for sure after claiming to be the lead animator, though apparantly not even that since apparantly she lied about being in that position.

[QUOTE=jiggu;51984276]I think you missed the point. I'm not saying that they aren't gamers, I'm saying that the media is running the whole "those evil gamers" thing to get attention, same with the whole gamergate crap. With that in mind it was a horrible blogpost that started this.[/QUOTE] My mistake, that is a narrative that the media likes to push a lot. I'm surprised Anita and Brianna Wu haven't jumped on it yet(or they have and nobody told me)

Bioware Anti-Fans make me very sad

[QUOTE=Te Great Skeeve;51984403]I think what I am getting at is whenever these situations happen it's always "irrefutable proof that gaming culture is sexist!" I really, really hate that. What happened here was wrong, stupid and most likely sexism influenced. But don't throw us all under the bus. [editline]a[/editline] The problem is, is that gaming tabloids are going to eat this up and use it as fuel for that fire, and when people get inevitably angry, it might blow up into the whole situation we had before.[/QUOTE] How many mountains of evidence do you need to admit that the gaming community is pretty freaking sexist e: this was a bad comment, it's too hard to quantify this and I'm thinking of my experiences gaming over the last 10 years. Sometime later I may try to properly source this claim, but the fact that the gaming community has been called out so many times for being sexist, this conversation has happened so many times, should be indicative of itself

[I]Some[/I] gamers are always gonna look at women in the gaming industry as people who don't belong there. The same way that s[I]ome[/I] non-gamers are gonna see all gamers as sexist, misogynist, cruel, etc. The solution is to bring attention to both issues without putting them in competition with each other. Both suck and people should work together to solve it without having to say one is worse than the other.

[QUOTE=Beetle179;51984417]How many mountains of evidence do you need to admit that the gaming community is pretty freaking sexist[/QUOTE] Give me the evidence that the majority of people within gaming communities are sexist, then. [editline]a[/editline] Also, for the record, the amount of generalization you are pulling is atrocious. [editline]a[/editline] Scratch that, make it even a fraction.

[QUOTE=Beetle179;51984417]How many mountains of evidence do you need to admit that the gaming community is pretty freaking sexist[/QUOTE] You could try to show any at all, for a start. As far as I can tell, it's a whole lot more inclusive than most of the others out there.

[QUOTE=Tamschi;51984398]You could make it mandatorily not-anonymous, but afaik people who use their real names online actually tend to me [I]more[/I] vicious.[/QUOTE] Looks good on paper. Shit in practice. Funny, South Park did an episode on this. You gotta think of the consequences of having an identity attached to your post. It basically means you can't: - Post any opinion whatsoever, there's going to be that one fucking weirdo who's going to stalk you for saying Half-Life 2 wasn't that great. - Post anything compromising such as socially forbidden interests (drugs, interest in the same sex, porn) unless you want to be blackmailed or witchhunted.

I'm kinda of impressed how a story about a woman being harrassed by some mass effect fans became a discussion how gamers are the victims

[QUOTE=Lambeth;51984449]I'm kinda of impressed how a story about a woman being harrassed by some mass effect fans became a discussion how gamers are the victims[/QUOTE] Yeah when somebody says "most of gaming is sexist" I am going to call him out on it. What happened here is wrong. There is no discussion to have there. I don't know what you were expecting. But yeah right at the start, it's disgusting. TROLLS need to be brought to justice. Not demonize the gaming community over this. We need to shift the discussion to that.