Gamers harass woman online over Mass Effect Andromeda - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Tamschi;51984976]We're being generalised as such [I]a lot[/I].[/QUOTE] Gamers, not [I]video game players[/I]. The public sees gamer as a word like nerd.

[QUOTE=Talvy;51985096]Gamers, not [I]video game players[/I]. The public sees gamer as a word like nerd.[/QUOTE] By definition, don't they mean the same thing? Just as photographers are [i]picture takers[/i].

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51985068]I was referring to what was being reported. See, this is a double edged sword because you could've just asked for clarification instead of assuming the worst and least likely (almost impossible, tbh) thing out of all the things I've could've been talking about.[/QUOTE] I went based off of what you were saying. And the article is doing the same thing, purporting it as if its just death/rape threats. So it doesn't really matter if you try to say, "I was referring to what was being reported." because its the same problem.

[QUOTE=Talvy;51985096]Gamers, not [I]video game players[/I]. The public sees gamer as a word like nerd.[/QUOTE] Fair enough, but that doesn't really change the matter of a huge generalisation taking place. The definitions are really fuzzy, but if I'm not mistaken it's roughly like saying 'movie enthusiasts are x' if we try to be precise with the terms. If we orient the definition of 'video game players' at how wide 'movie watchers' is, we'd have to count all people who casually play Facebook and/or mobile games/people who watch films on TV somewhat regularly. The stereotype of the former case doesn't apply then anymore of course, but it's uselessly wide in that we'd move away from the issue of 'gamers' being smeared in media while 'movie enthusiasts' aren't. [editline]20th March 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=TFA;51985198]By definition, don't they mean the same thing? Just as photographers are [i]picture takers[/i].[/QUOTE] Not quite. I wouldn't really call most people photographers despite them semi-regularly using their smartphone cameras, either.

Didn't this woman have an "I hate men" animation as a part of her portfolio? Sounds kinda sexist, if you ask me.

[QUOTE=V12US;51985277]Didn't this woman have an "I hate men" animation as a part of her portfolio? Sounds kinda sexist, if you ask me.[/QUOTE] You're right let's stalk this bitch, send her death threats and shit on a game she had a small amount of work on.

[QUOTE=V12US;51985277]Didn't this woman have an "I hate men" animation as a part of her portfolio? Sounds kinda sexist, if you ask me.[/QUOTE] It's a scene title as far as I know. It's entirely possible that doesn't reflect on her personal opinions or means the opposite. I haven't seen the actual scene though, so I really can't tell what's the case.

[QUOTE=JeSuisIkea;51985294]You're right let's stalk this bitch, send her death threats and shit on a game she had a small amount of work on.[/QUOTE] because that's not a strawman or anything because you're helping the discussion by being inflammatory, right

[QUOTE=JeSuisIkea;51985294]You're right let's stalk this bitch, send her death threats and shit on a game she had a small amount of work on.[/QUOTE] Let's not and let the media imply we did.

The real title should be "a group of gamers harassed people". Not all gamers are dickheads, the majority of them might be, but it ain't right to say that an entire group of people is shitty. Without quantifiers we would only be able to say all or nothing, and that's both wrong and impractical. From my perspective (derived from the article), there is indeed a part of the gaming scene which can be really toxic towards women, what happened is an example of it. On a personal level I don't really like labeling myself as a gamer because the word has a lot of meanings nowadays and there is a lot of gate-keeping regarding who can call themselves a gamer or not. Most video game fanbases are cringeworthy as fuck or full of toxic weebs and people with shitty upbringing. I would hate to be a gamer if that means being associated with those people.

[QUOTE=Sgt. Nikolai;51985474]The real title should be "a group of gamers harassed people". Not all gamers are dickheads, the majority of them might be, but it ain't right to say that an entire group of people is shitty. Without quantifiers we would only be able to say all or nothing, and that's both wrong and impractical. [/QUOTE] The title is entirely accurate. If a group of dentists vandalize a store and a newspaper publishes an article titled "Dentists Vandalize Store," there's no implication that every dentist in the world is vandalizing the store, nor does it necessarily mean that all dentists are entitled shits, even though they are.

A common trick to see how fucked up a headline is is to replace X group with "black people", and if without context it sounds racist as hell, it's pretty fucked up.

[QUOTE=V12US;51985492]A common trick to see how fucked up a headline is is to replace X group with "black people", and if without context it sounds racist as hell, it's pretty fucked up.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry, are gamers disenfranchised?

[QUOTE=Pascall;51984220]That's exactly what happened here though ?? ?[/QUOTE] Are these people you know doing this gamers? ? ??

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51985503]I'm sorry, are gamers disenfranchised?[/QUOTE] I'm not stepping into your minefield. You know full well what I mean.

[QUOTE=V12US;51985277]Didn't this woman have an "I hate men" animation as a part of her portfolio? Sounds kinda sexist, if you ask me.[/QUOTE] You should probably watch the animation in question before declaring what the context of it is.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51985503]I'm sorry, are gamers disenfranchised?[/QUOTE] I played video games instead of going to vote, does that count?

[QUOTE=V12US;51985512]I'm not stepping into your minefield. You know full well what I mean.[/QUOTE] I do and the question still stands. The reason why "Gamers harass woman" is more acceptable than "Black people harass woman" is because A). The fact that they're gamers is actually relevant to the article to warrant it being in the title. The fact that a group of black people assaulted a woman is irrelevant enough not to be in the title. B). Gamers are not a disenfranchised group, so the use of the word is less sensitive.

"Black people harass woman over Mass Effect Andromeda" sounds like a really lame Cards against Humanity pair.

[QUOTE=Pascall;51984291]It doesn't have to be harassment to be completely unnecessary and stupid.[/QUOTE] Havent seen a dumber argument not relevant to the conversation. [editline]20th March 2017[/editline] Also, its insane how people say "gamers harass women" when you just go into a game of, say, Dota 2, start up a match, play poorly and -- voila, you get rape threats on your mum and whatnot. And this can happen any game, regardless of circumstances.

[QUOTE=CruelAddict;51985845]Havent seen a dumber argument not relevant to the conversation. [editline]20th March 2017[/editline] Also, its insane how people say "gamers harass women" when you just go into a game of, say, Dota 2, start up a match, play poorly and -- voila, you get rape threats on your mum and whatnot. And this can happen any game, regardless of circumstances.[/QUOTE] But you are often harassed about [I]a)[/I] the women in your life [I]b)[/I] your penis's lack of relative scale's impact on your ability to get women in your life, et cetera. IE: These are all or mostly referential towards or objectifying of women, intended to get at you due to the inferiority of the quality of the woman you are made from or the ones you are able to keep around you for sexual conquest. Threats at them are slights at your masculinity due to your implied inability to protect them as implicitly defenseless objects. Even when you are being harassed over perceived femininity or immaturity, it has to do with either [I]a) [/I]being a virgin and thus naive about the ways of the world or [I]b) [/I]being gay and thus deformed due to a lack of interest in the obvious qualitative attractiveness of women. Conversely, women that I come across in games frequently are [I]a) [/I]told to link pictures of themselves naked [I]b)[/I] prove that they are a woman in some inane/perverse way or be referred to as a boy masquerading as a girl. [I]c)[/I] told they deserve physical/sexual violence by teammates for losing/opposing team for winning. [I]d)[/I] asked why they are playing video games at all when they should be making meals for a man who does. [I]e)[/I] referred to exclusively as 'bitch,' 'whore,' 'slut,' and 'cunt.' [I]f)[/I] assumed to be ugly because they are a gamer when attempts at seduction fail. It isn't universal, but it also isn't a behavior that is socially ostracized in any way. Nobody stops playing and calls the guy(s) out for being disrespectful. When I do, I am often shot down for "making a scene" or told that "it's just part of the game." I'm not a woman, but I avoid most competitive multiplayer games for the toxic machismo-laden and misogynistic communities that seem to flourish within them. Just go on Twitch and watch some popular female streamers and pay attention to the chat. Watch how much toxic stuff gets said, repeated, memified, and never called out for what it is. Watch the streamer read the chat and then crease their brow before talking about something completely unrelated as a means of deflection rather than confronting it due to the seeming unanimity of it. Certain games are less prone to it in others, but those tend to emphasize cooperation: for instance, in Insurgency and ArmA, fewer people tend to care about your gender or sexual orientation so long as you fill your role well, and all in-team harassment is seen as disruptive at the very least. In Counter Strike and Call of Duty, it is a completely different story. To say that misogynistic hyper-masculinity isn't to a degree part-and-parcel to VOIP-oriented competitive and broadcast gaming is [I]insane[/I].

[QUOTE=TFA;51985198]By definition, don't they mean the same thing? Just as photographers are [i]picture takers[/i].[/QUOTE] Cutting down a few trees doesn't make you a lumberjack etc, etc. [QUOTE=V12US;51985277]Didn't this woman have an "I hate men" animation as a part of her portfolio? Sounds kinda sexist, if you ask me.[/QUOTE] It was a scene from a comedy movie where a middle aged woman talks about how she hates men cause they kinda stop aging between like 20 and 50, while putting on makeup.

[QUOTE=V12US;51985492]A common trick to see how fucked up a headline is is to replace X group with "black people", and if without context it sounds racist as hell, it's pretty fucked up.[/QUOTE] Nah writers have smartened up about gamers. They use the term gamers, then occasionally define them as white males within the article.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;51985543]I do and the question still stands. The reason why "Gamers harass woman" is more acceptable than "Black people harass woman" is because A). The fact that they're gamers is actually relevant to the article to warrant it being in the title. The fact that a group of black people assaulted a woman is irrelevant enough not to be in the title. B). Gamers are not a disenfranchised group, so the use of the word is less sensitive.[/QUOTE] A). We established earlier in the thread that internet harassment happens to all public figures and therefore both "gamers" and "women" are both irrelevent bits, by your own logic for the "black people assaulting a woman" title "black people" is irrelevant because anyone could have assaulted a woman. B). Does this logic mean you would be OK with "a group of white people assaulted a woman" as a title as well, simply because white people arent disenfranchised enough. I've always found the idea that you can only be discriminatory against "special" groups of people counterproductive to actually resolving both those and other similar issues, as well as being discriminatory in itself.

[QUOTE=Mattk50;51986059]A). We established earlier in the thread that internet harassment happens to all public figures and therefore both "gamers" and "women" are both irrelevent bits, by your own logic for the "black people assaulting a woman" title "black people" is irrelevant because anyone could have assaulted a woman.[/quote] that's someone else's argument, not mine. so let me explain MY argument. 1). These were sexist remarks designed towards that person's gender. So "woman" is relevant. 2). The victim was a game developer who angered gamers. So "gamer" is relevant. If a group of black people harassed a woman for not believing in blacklivesmatter, then it would be completely appropriate to put "Woman harassed by a group of black people for not believing in BlackLivesMatter" as a title. [quote]B). Does this logic mean you would be OK with "a group of white people assaulted a woman" as a title as well, simply because white people arent disenfranchised enough. I've always found the idea that you can only be discriminatory against "special" groups of people counterproductive to actually resolving both those and other similar issues, as well as being discriminatory in itself.[/QUOTE] My list wasn't an OR. It was an AND and both of them are weighted by severity.

[QUOTE=fulgrim;51984334]Yeah pretty much, I said as much in the original thread. If people are so mad about "Gamers are cunts!" articles, then perhaps they should be mad at the gamers who are being cunts?. I might be wrong about this, but you don't really see this kind of shit happen so often among fans of other media. When was the last time dissatisfied viewers tracked down the dude who did a film's bad CGI?, Or launched DDOS attacks on a critics website?.[/QUOTE] I am mad at cunts, and I am mad at shit journalism. I don't see why the two things are mutually exclusive. This kind of shit happens everywhere, it's just that for some reason people like piling on videogame fans. I also hope you realise the inherent fallacy in the "Gamers are unfairly represented " "Well if they weren't bad they wouldn't be would they?" discussion. [QUOTE=Pascall;51984368]Putting "some" gamers or "a collection of individuals who game" isn't really gonna convince someone with a seething hatred or distaste for "gamers" as a collective that they don't suck if they're really adamant on holding onto their bias. Generalization is bad. Obvious problem with media. But it's not like a solution is simple as changing the verbage because there's always gonna be someone who doesn't care about the verbage and is gonna hate the generalized demographic anyway. I mean if you wanna change the way the articles are titled then sure, I can see people wanting that to be a thing that happens, but honestly, I'm not someone who goes around calling myself a "gamer" anyway? So if that's a serious part of your identity then sure. Advocate for changing how the media presents it. But the thing is, I'd say that's a secondary issue to the harassment of a developer going on in this article but that's just me.[/QUOTE] I hope you also realize the inherent fallacy in your argument. Imagine you were speaking about Muslims or something. "I mean you could try and change the headlines from 'Evil Muslims Kill 10 Children" to "New terror attack by ISIS" but some people are gonna hate Muslims as a whole anyway so why bother, also I think the fact ten children died is more important"

[QUOTE=Tamschi;51985301]It's a scene title as far as I know. It's entirely possible that doesn't reflect on her personal opinions or means the opposite. I haven't seen the actual scene though, so I really can't tell what's the case.[/QUOTE] I saw the actual showreel, it's just the title of a monologue an animated character is doing, not a statement by her. I saw this coming and I knew it was gonna be the same group of shitstirrers who were going to blame some woman, or some liberal (they prefer both) in Bioware's team for the disaster that is ME: Andromeda, just like they did with Dragon Age 2 and Jennifer Hepler.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;51986227]I saw the actual showreel, it's just the title of a monologue an animated character is doing, not a statement by her. I saw this coming and I knew it was gonna be the same group of shitstirrers who were going to blame some woman, or some liberal (they prefer both) in Bioware's team for the disaster that is ME: Andromeda, just like they did with Dragon Age 2 and Jennifer Hepler.[/QUOTE] People see someone posing as the [B]lead[/B] animator and instantly think that this single person is responsible for all of the wonky animations, because the average person doesn't know terribly much about AAA game development. Whether she's a woman or not wouldn't have kept her from being harassed, it just means they targeted her with things like implying she got her position with sexual favors. That's not to rule out the possibility that there's actually some people that attack her just because she's a woman, though.

I wonder how lifeless and pathetically petty you have to be to harass somebody over something so fucking dumb

[QUOTE=FreakyMe;51985893]But you are often harassed about [I]a)[/I] the women in your life [I]b)[/I] your penis's lack of relative scale's impact on your ability to get women in your life, et cetera. IE: These are all or mostly referential towards or objectifying of women, intended to get at you due to the inferiority of the quality of the woman you are made from or the ones you are able to keep around you for sexual conquest. Threats at them are slights at your masculinity due to your implied inability to protect them as implicitly defenseless objects. Even when you are being harassed over perceived femininity or immaturity, it has to do with either [I]a) [/I]being a virgin and thus naive about the ways of the world or [I]b) [/I]being gay and thus deformed due to a lack of interest in the obvious qualitative attractiveness of women. ... To say that misogynistic hyper-masculinity isn't to a degree part-and-parcel to VOIP-oriented competitive and broadcast gaming is [I]insane[/I].[/QUOTE] These examples are blatant misandristic attacks yet you try to spin them as misogynism. Nevermind the fact that attacking gender/sexual identity is the go-to way to get under someone's skin REGARDLESS of what ever the target happens to be. Gender roles and the unfair expectations associated harm everyone, not just women. In the hostile environment that is the internet in general, misogynism will be a part of the experience along with other nastiness as long as there are players who hold those views and/or are willing to use them to attack, and anonymity/pseudonymity brings the worst out of them. With your anecdotes, consider where the people you're exposed to are from, and what influence they relay. In online games you'll likely play with people from your culture, and they generally bring the same values and prejudices along with them with brutal honesty. The experience of "gaming community" will wildly vary based on where the player is regionally and what games they play. Nonspecifically on the internet there's what, hundreds of millions(?) of gamers from nearly all cultures of the world and they each bring their own prejudices so the issue is magnitudes more complex than "gamers are sexist? more at eleven"