People are pissed about 'Star Wars Battlefront II' loot boxes - Sensationalist Headlines

I hate how the status quo has become putting lootboxes in full price games. It doesn't matter how 'well' or 'poorly' they're implemented, just the existence of them in titles that I've already paid 40-60 dollars for grosses me out.

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52766251]Judging something before it comes out makes no logical sense[/QUOTE] DICE rarely does major changes from BETA>Release. So I suspect what we see, is what we get and and I don't like what I see.

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52766225]I’ve never received money to do anything with this game. I just think people are reacting too early. We don’t know how it’s going to work at launch, and shouldn’t judge it based off a beta where nothing is final. judge the final/launch product.[/QUOTE] I can't judge if their tactic is to purposely put stuff like this and probably will remove it later since it's a beta. What is the catch? Making them look like heroes?

[QUOTE=-n3o-;52766265]DICE rarely does major changes from BETA>Release. So I suspect what we see, is what we get and and I don't like what I see.[/QUOTE] Not all the items in the final game were in the beta, so drop rates from the crates won’t be comparable

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52766276]Not all the items were in the beta, so drop rates from the crates won’t be final[/QUOTE] So you are saying the final system will be even worse because you will need to open even more boxes to get what you want? Splendid

[QUOTE=Sweater;52766273]I can't judge if their tactic is to purposely put stuff like this and probably will remove it later since it's a beta. What is the catch? Making them look like heroes?[/QUOTE] I doubt they’ll change how the crates work. The final game with have more crates then what is in the beta however.

I'm gonna do a shameful and buy it because it's pretty fun (and all of the gameplay DLC is purportedly free, which is just about the most important thing to me) but heck if I'm buying a single box

[QUOTE=Damjen;52766277]So you are saying the final system will be even worse because you will need to open even more boxes to get what you want? Splendid[/QUOTE] If the leaked play tester footage is real, the final game is going to have more specific crates for certain items. Not just general everything crates like in the beta.

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52766279]I doubt they’ll change how the crates work. The final game with have more crates then what is in the beta however.[/QUOTE] So the system is going to have worse RNG then.

[QUOTE=-n3o-;52766265]DICE rarely does major changes from BETA>Release. So I suspect what we see, is what we get and and I don't like what I see.[/QUOTE] Have you seen the kamino leaks? There are more ways to unlock stuff in the final game.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;52766280]I'm gonna do a shameful and buy it because it's pretty fun (and all of the gameplay DLC is purportedly free, which is just about the most important thing to me) but heck if I'm buying a single box[/QUOTE] Same here, not spending a dime on crates. [editline]10th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=kilerabv;52766287]So the system is going to have worse RNG then.[/QUOTE] No, because there will be more crates. There will be class specific crates, not just the ones seen in the beta.

[QUOTE=kilerabv;52766287]So the system is going to have worse RNG then.[/QUOTE] I think what they're basically trying to say is instead of getting a "trooper crate" trying to get assault class stuff and getting han solo and officer equipment over and over again, you can just buy an assault crate for a guarantee or something like that

If you only want to focus on a single class, you can. You don’t need to worry about getting cards for classes you’re not playing. [editline]10th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Simplemac3;52766294]I think what they're basically trying to say is instead of getting a "trooper crate" trying to get assault class stuff and getting han solo and officer equipment over and over again, you can just buy an assault crate for a guarantee or something like that[/QUOTE] That is what I’m talking about.

Ah yes, class specific crates. A limited pool of RNG fuckery instead of a large pool of RNG fuckery. Crates that contain everything from gear, cosmetic, weapons, cards, add-ons and whatever else in a pool as well as money and scrap. [editline]10th October 2017[/editline] You want that weapon for your class? Better grind for boxes or pay for them so you have a 1 in X change to get what you want.

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52766251]Judging something before it comes out makes no logical sense[/QUOTE] What makes no logical sense...and this is why you have been called out as a shill by other posters...is blindly defending a company infamous for terrible decisions designed to maximise income at the expense of everything else. Surely you know EA's track record on matters like this. Surely you are well aware that the execs dont care about backlash when there's sweet sweet microtransaction money to be made. If there's one thing you can't fault EA for, its being reliable. They reliably do dumb, anti-customer shit....oh, say, like loot boxes you can buy which contains actual power.

[QUOTE=kilerabv;52766302]Ah yes, class specific crates. A limited pool of RNG fuckery instead of a large pool of RNG fuckery. Crates that contain everything from gear, cosmetic, weapons, cards, add-ons and whatever else in a pool as well as money and scrap. [editline]10th October 2017[/editline] You want that weapon for your class? Better grind for boxes or pay for them so you have a 1 in X change to get what you want.[/QUOTE] Weapons might also be earned via level up. You can also build some using scrap. suplicate cards can also be turned into scrap [editline]10th October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=TestECull;52766306]What makes no logical sense...and this is why you have been called out as a shill by other posters...is blindly defending a company[/QUOTE] How am I defending them? I never said it was a good thing.

I remember one of my mates hacking to get credits in mass effect 3 for the boxes needed to unlock all the characters and equipment. He opened 10,000 crates over a weekend and still didn't have every item. In real cash that was around £22k if he had paid for it. Unlocking things can be part of your game, but when the only reason to keep playing is to grind that's a tad shit.

[QUOTE=TestECull;52766306]What makes no logical sense...and this is why you have been called out as a shill by other posters...is blindly defending a company infamous for terrible decisions designed to maximise income at the expense of everything else. Surely you know EA's track record on matters like this. Surely you are well aware that the execs dont care about backlash when there's sweet sweet microtransaction money to be made. If there's one thing you can't fault EA for, its being reliable. They reliably do dumb, anti-customer shit....oh, say, like loot boxes you can buy which contains actual power.[/QUOTE] they actually don't though i know it's hard to believe but for all the shit EA has done in the past, killing and absorbing countless good developers EA has shown off [I]genuinely pretty good practices[/I] in the past and more recently -all of their games on origin let you try them for 24 hours and refund them if you don't like it free of charge, long before steam implemented the two hour limit one -their customer service is fantastic and lenient (as long as you don't get an outsourced rep who can't speak a lick of english) -you can now try expansions for battlefield 1 in a trial or play them free of charge if you're playing with a friend who owns them, iirc -titanfall 2 being allowed completely free dlc (granted, this came with the game basically being set up for failure with its release schedule and poor advertising- but it's still a nice thing for the consumer) -battlefront 2 having completely free dlc (granted again, with the terrible card system) -release slightly older games and expansions 'on the house' on a monthly basis, i got most of battlefield 4's DLC through this system and steamworld dig just now for the record i'm not supporting the card-gambling thing going on here but i'm a little tired of people just throwing out "EA is always in the wrong and their games are shit no matter what" like it's some kind of valid argument. I remember around the time mirror's edge and mass effect were fresh people [I]actually kinda liked [/I]EA when stacked up against their main competitor, Activision

All they gotta do is nerf some of the cards, increase credit gain's ceiling and tie it to individual performance, and increase salvage thingies about 50% more.

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52765622]The beta’s lock boxes are not representative of the final game, it even says in the text on the UI. I’m not defending the practice, just saying the beta version shouldn’t be taken as fact. take a look at this: [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/75b67t/spoiler_the_kamino_leak_that_a_lot_of_people/?st=J8LMNHXN&sh=90b47980"]https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/75b67t/spoiler_the_kamino_leak_that_a_lot_of_people/[/URL] [URL="https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/75b67t/comment/do4s0v5?st=J8LMOVJ7&sh=bf55d3c3"]https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsBattlefront/comments/75b67t/comment/[/URL][/QUOTE] and how else will they know the beta systems sucks dick if people don't complain about it? it's a beta and people are giving feedback on the beta as they should, it fucking sucks

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52766311][B]Weapons might also be earned via level up.[/B] You can also build some using scrap. suplicate cards can also be turned into scrap[/QUOTE] We know for a fact this is not true. TotalBiscuit brought up that scrap costs may inflate to stupid amounts for higher level cards, taking as evidence the cost hike between a level 1 card and a level 2 card in terms of crafting. It's also perfectly fair to judge the game as it is right now because it is the state which developers felt confident in showing us. It doesn't mean the current system is set in stone but unless proof of the contrary is given this is what we're getting. Not to mention that, as TB said, a change to a proper system would require a fundamental rework of the game on a structural level which makes it rather unlikely if anything.

This whole thing with loot boxes is just the latest thing AAA game companies are doing to squeeze every last cent out of their customers. They're bad because they often contain content that is gameplay altering as well as content that can only be obtained via PAID loot boxes. Also since these loot boxes rely on heavy RNG, it's pretty much unregulated gambling. If people don't speak up and protest then it's only going to get worse. The only time loot boxes are tolerable are when they're just for cosmetic items and even at that you can obtain the items by just playing the game (such as in Overwatch, but even in this case the system is balanced in a way that encourages buying loot boxes).

Daily reminder that For Honor had a similar "But you can get items with in-game currency!" system but the prices were so massively inflated you'd have to play nonstop for [url=https://www.pcgamesn.com/for-honor/for-honor-steel-unlocks]2.5 YEARS[/url] to unlock everything without paying extra.

I say consumers have every right to be mad. Just because the game hasn't been released yet doesn't mean we aren't allowed to criticize it. I'm not paying $60 just to have microtransactions shoved down my throat. And so what if there is a progression system that you don't have to pay for? The fact is people are going to pay money to get weapons they didn't work to get, leaving more skilled players at a disadvantage due to a lack of weapon variety early on if they choose not to pay. EA has once again ruined what would have been a great game by being greedy. I refuse to support these practices or this developer.

Wait battlefront 2 isn't out yet? Feels like they've been hyping it up forever

Yeah, if we can't judge a product based on promotional material then that kind of defeats the point of promotional material. It's out there for a reason, and that's to colour perceptions of the game. Turns out it's simply not the colour the publisher wanted. Granted, this is me assuming that Betas are promotional material that's basically replaced free demos but I sincerely believe that this is now the case.

Anyone who defends microtransactions can choke on my balls. Imagine if HL1 had half as much ammo and the energy weapons were missing and when you find a new gun a popup comes up that says ".99$" also you can purchase the egon/tau cannon by upgrading to HL Deluxe for $10/mo Valve wouldn't exist today [editline]10th October 2017[/editline] Honestly GTA has a great system for this type of shit other than slowly jacking the price of all new content to 10m+ (aka $100 irl)

Don't forget that by being against paid loot boxes you are "poor" according to the average modern "gamer". Because this shit is so frequent that today's gamer sees it as the norm.

[QUOTE=Simplemac3;52766331]for the record i'm not supporting the card-gambling thing going on here but i'm a little tired of people just throwing out "EA is always in the wrong and their games are shit no matter what" like it's some kind of valid argument. I remember around the time mirror's edge and mass effect were fresh people [I]actually kinda liked [/I]EA when stacked up against their main competitor, Activision[/QUOTE] That was less liking EA than hating Activision even more, to be fair. I agree that you can't say a game is shit just because it's from a publisher you don't like. Still, I can say with utmost certainty that this system is utter crap. The game not being out yet is rather irrelevant as the information is. I know you didn't say it wasn't bad, the rest of this post isn't really a reply to you in particular. Just to illustrate why I think it's clearly shit I'll go through the reasons one by one, starting with the most innocuous. The game has random loot crates. To me that's already a negative, but a very very small one compared to everything that follows. Loot crates are perhaps not the only source, but certainly the primary source of not just cosmetics but also actual gear that affects the game, such as weapons that generally serve as side-grades Now, having unlockable side-grades is perhaps not an issue, but unlocking them through loot crates is. Part of the reason for this lies in the game design benefits of having unlockables in the first place, which are two fold. First, it can create a steady trickle of options so as not to overwhelm your players in games that have a lot of content. Random loot crates are just about the exact opposite of a steady trickle. Second, it can create a fun sense of progression, especially if the player has some control over what exactly they unlock, so they can make an effort towards unlocking the particular things they want. Randomly getting shit ruins almost every positive aspect of this. You can't work towards unlocking the thing you want, it's random. Even if you get something you wanted it's not an accomplishment, it was random. It's not even really a progression, because it's random. So the loot crate system lacks the positives of actual unlockables, but besides that even side-grades can cause balance issues. Even if it's only better in specific situations, it's still better in those situations. In other words, while using it may not be a clear advantage, having the option to use it in the first place is. That's not to say that having unlockable side-grades is inherently bad, as long as they're fairly well balanced. But the ability to unlock them should never be overly restricted. If a player often finds themselves in a situation where having a specific unlockable would have helped them, they [i]absolutely must[/i] be able to make the conscious decision to unlock that thing, and then do so in a reasonable time frame. So locking side-grades behind random loot crates isn't great, but that's nowhere near the end of the tunnel because sometimes it's not side-grades. Sometimes it's just straight up, objectively, measurably, mathematically superior upgrades, and they even get better each time you get a duplicate. Even if objectively superior upgrades were tied to something more predictable like player level, and even if they at least tried to make up for the advantage by making the match making system take level into account, this would be shit in a multiplayer game. But of course it's tied to the random ass loot crate system which was also already bad enough in and of itself, creating an exponentially worse system combining the worst parts of both into a stew of pure, undiluted, raw shit. But even that's not shitty enough, so they also make people buy extra fucking crates with real money on top of the price tag of the game itself, turning a part of the game into a literal gambling hall. Now you pay real money to take a gamble on getting cosmetics that probably wont be what you wanted. And now you pay actual money to maybe, just maybe get a side grade that just might be the one you've wanted, either to give yourself and advantage or just for fun, which you're also unlikely to actually get. And finally, now you pay actual, real life money to [i]potentially[/i] get literal, objective, numerical advantages in a premium competitive multiplayer game, for a certain playstyle which almost certainly isn't going to be your favorite, oh and also you need to get it 5 times before it's maxed out. What a fun and satisfying way to spend your money which is definitely not gambling, definitely not trying to take advantage of people with gambling problems and most certainly not trying to entice children to gamble in order to play a video game how they want! It's shit. The rest of the game may be good, but this? This is shit. No ifs and buts about it, it's bad. Frankly shit doesn't even begin to cover how fucking terrible this system is.

[QUOTE=jonoPorter;52766104]If I remember right you could do that since Battlefield 3 with the shortcut bundles.[/QUOTE] Outside of one or two guns and some vehicle unlocks, the shortcut bundles weren't the end of the world tbh. Almost everything in the Battlefield games can be fought against easily with any given weapon. The vehicle unlocks were a bit of a turd though as you could get a new player rocking your shit with TOWs from a tank whilst you have yet to unlock fuck all for tanks. Not that it mattered by that point tbh, new players to the game would be suffering from people who've already levelled rocking their shit with vehicle unlocks like heat seekers and that. Straight up character buffs are quite a bit different however.