People are pissed about 'Star Wars Battlefront II' loot boxes - Sensationalist Headlines

The good news is that EA will see this and might find some sort of better alternative before release date. If not well... It's on my birthday, and really the footage and impressions are killer.

I'm going to wait and see what the final product looks like before judging it. It's pretty obvious at this point that the open beta build is quite old and missing several key UI features that have been shown at other demos.

[QUOTE=Tetracycline;52766337]All they gotta do is nerf some of the cards, increase credit gain's ceiling and tie it to individual performance, and increase salvage thingies about 50% more.[/QUOTE] But that would make the lootboxes less appealing. The whole point of making everything a tedious grind is to get you frustrated enough to spend money on this shit. I mean Rockstar could make GTAO suck less if they increased the money you get from missions and heists like ten times, but that would decrease the sales of shark cards so that's not good.

Loot box based micro-transactions should be illegal in any game which isn't F2P.

[QUOTE=Furnost;52765805]since apparently their DLC will be free it would be way better to have cosmetics be their microtransactions/loot boxes/whatever you wanna call it. youre able to play on an even ground with other people without having to grind your ass off, get actual gameplay/content DLC for free, and cosmetics only matter if you care about how you look and doesnt affect the gameplay at all.[/QUOTE] I don't mind cosmetics as microtransactions, I just don't think it's acceptable to have paid lootboxes, especially in full price games. It's fine if you get lootboxes from gameplay but if you pay real money you should be paying for a specific thing, not a chance at something good along with bunch of useless shit you don't want.

wtf happened to video games

[QUOTE=Nautsabes;52767033]wtf happened to video games[/QUOTE] Cancer EDIT: Actually thinking about it this is more like a really bad case of dysentery, combined with pretty stubborn anal herpies

[QUOTE=Nautsabes;52767033]wtf happened to video games[/QUOTE] Profiteering on a reckless scale for a decade.

[QUOTE=Nautsabes;52767033]wtf happened to video games[/QUOTE] Team fortress 2 brought loot crates, minecraft brought early access. Everything else has been downhill since then

[QUOTE=Nautsabes;52767033]wtf happened to video games[/QUOTE] a lot of people without any foresight thought nothing could go wrong if they spent several times the price of the game they bought on worthless cosmetics with assigned value

[QUOTE=AlbertWesker;52767004]Loot box based micro-transactions should be illegal in any game which isn't F2P.[/QUOTE] Illegal is too far but heavily regulated like gambling. Put a hotline phone number in the bottom middle of the screen when opening a box and put a warning for parents that this game contains a slot machine that requires real life money. Anything further than that is impossible to enforce other than maybe restricting loot boxes to games that are rated M or above.

[QUOTE=Damjen;52765652]I would rather have dead games than rampant unregulated gambling.[/QUOTE] Good thing it's not gambling. If cosmetic loot boxes are gambling, then so are -All Trading Card Games with booster packs -All collectible item sets that hide the contents until you buy them -All vending machines that give you a random item from a list of N items

[QUOTE=phygon;52767145]Good thing it's not gambling. If cosmetic loot boxes are gambling, then so are -All Trading Card Games with booster packs -All collectible item sets that hide the contents until you buy them -All vending machines that give you a random item from a list of N items[/QUOTE] techincally yea thats all gambling

[QUOTE=phygon;52767145]Good thing it's not gambling. If cosmetic loot boxes are gambling, then so are -All Trading Card Games with booster packs -All collectible item sets that hide the contents until you buy them -All vending machines that give you a random item from a list of N items[/QUOTE] the IRS disagrees [QUOTE]Slot Machine. “Slot machine” means a device that, by application of the element of chance, may deliver, or entitle the person playing or operating the device to receive cash, premiums, merchandise, or tokens whether or not the device is operated by insertion of a coin, token, or similar object. [/QUOTE]

It's such a shame cause the open beta was really good fun (the space battles were great), but the path gaming companies are going down these days is so shit: DLC, season passes, microtransactions, loot crates. It's so garbage, especially when they impact your personal enjoyment of the game. Items you get in the lootboxes can be really powerful, like increasing damage output by 15% or higher. I wish the ones in BF2 were just cosmetics, I'd prefer that. It'd be pretty sweet kitting out your tie fighter with unique emblems and stuff.

[QUOTE=Nautsabes;52767179]techincally yea thats all gambling[/QUOTE] Gambling is honestly a pretty broad term. Even insurance is gambling, but it's not something regulators can't figure out.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;52767192]the IRS disagrees[/QUOTE] But what about every other form of gambling outside of slot machines? An online slot machine would still be considered gambling even if it doesn't receive any physical cash or tokens.

[QUOTE=Nautsabes;52767179]techincally yea thats all gambling[/QUOTE] No, it's not, and none of these have EVER been an issue. [QUOTE=Svinnik;52767192]the IRS disagrees[/QUOTE] The thing is, it's not a chance whether or not you're going to get something. You always get something. The non-objective value of that item is what is random.

[QUOTE=phygon;52767279]No, it's not, and none of these have EVER been an issue. The thing is, it's not a chance whether or not you're going to get something. You always get something. The non-objective value of that item is what is random.[/QUOTE] You always get something but the chance of you getting something valuable is very low. No one opens CSGO crates hoping for a common item that's only worth a few cents. reread what I quoted [QUOTE]Slot Machine. “Slot machine” means a device that, [B]by application of the element of chance, may deliver, [I]or entitle[/I] the person playing or operating the device to receive cash, premiums, merchandise, or tokens[/B] whether or not the device is operated by insertion of a coin, token, or similar object.[/QUOTE] when you open a CSGO crate, you are entitled to a drop. The drop you get however is decided by RNG.

AAA games have been absolute garbage for years. As long as people continue to buy these shit games because of "graphics" these practices will be encorouged.

[QUOTE=phygon;52767145]Good thing it's not gambling. If cosmetic loot boxes are gambling, then so are -All Trading Card Games with booster packs -All collectible item sets that hide the contents until you buy them -All vending machines that give you a random item from a list of N items[/QUOTE] TotalBiscuit made an excellent point about this which I'll try to paraphrase. When you pay for card packs, or purchase from a random vending machine, you are paying the minimal value of the item with a chance to get something of higher value. This is not true for lootboxes because they deal in virtual products with no minimal value. You're not even obtaining something that's new, you're unlocking access to data which was already present in your install. This, by the way, is the loophole which Blizzard used in China to bypass the gambling laws established there: by adding an (obtusely small) amount of guaranteed currency to each purchase, they are giving the lootboxes a minimal value which makes them no longer gambling from a legal standpoint.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52767335]TotalBiscuit made an excellent point about this which I'll try to paraphrase. When you pay for card packs, or purchase from a random vending machine, you are paying the minimal value of the item with a chance to get something of higher value. This is not true for lootboxes because they deal in virtual products with no minimal value. You're not even obtaining something that's new, you're unlocking access to data which was already present in your install. This, by the way, is the loophole which Blizzard used in China to bypass the gambling laws established there: by adding an (obtusely small) amount of guaranteed currency to each purchase, they are giving the lootboxes a minimal value which makes them no longer gambling from a legal standpoint.[/QUOTE] If you're going to insist that worthless rectangles of cardstock have some sort of intrinsic value, then I'm going to have to insist that a company applying items to your account server-side, which is a service, has intrinsic value. They are honestly the exact same. If you disagree, you're being pedantic. Trading card expansion packs are the [I]exact[/I] same as cosmetic loot boxes.

In a way I feel that the Lootbox bullshit is a symptom of a bigger problem as well, mainly the fact that money and art always had a problematic relationship, and right now there are way too many instances where people create art in order to make money instead of making money in order to assist them in making art. The very fact that EA and Activision even exist in their current form is some kind of a weird dystopian nightmare, and an utter corruption of what videogame development is actually supposed to be about.

[QUOTE=phygon;52767384]If you're going to insist that worthless rectangles of cardstock have some sort of intrinsic value, then I'm going to have to insist that a company applying items to your account server-side, which is a service, has intrinsic value. They are honestly the exact same. If you disagree, you're being pedantic. Trading card expansion packs are the [I]exact[/I] same as cosmetic loot boxes.[/QUOTE] I don't see a point in arguing with this dumb as fuck logic when you're already at the point where you're arguing semantics. If you think I'm pedantic for seeing a difference between a physical object with minimal value and a lootbox with intrinsically valueless non-physical data, that's fine, but I'm still right and you still don't have a point.

[QUOTE=phygon;52767145]Good thing it's not gambling. If cosmetic loot boxes are gambling, then so are -All Trading Card Games with booster packs -All collectible item sets that hide the contents until you buy them -All vending machines that give you a random item from a list of N items[/QUOTE] The problem is that unless a game like TF2 has a trade system or market where certain things can be sold, you are effectually buying digital objects that have no actual value beyond gameplay circumstance. From cosmetics, to new weapons, to other such things like Froza 7's Mod Cards for changing race settings to get extra credits, and even digital Magic the Gathering cards. All of it is essentially only worth the player's own definition of value without external markets, and you're really just giving developers your money for an RNG value they want to conceal to get the code to give you code that only exists within that title that they proclaim is good value. You buy a booster pack, you are by all technicality throwing money into the hope of good cards you need, but you can resell them, trade them, and at worst case, a card has a physical circumstance of being able to be used for more than just its game like unjamming your door lock in an emergency or putting a coffee mug ontop if you really don't give a shit about it. You buy a digital booster pack, you're effectively shooting your money into solely digital cards to use in their designated program that [i]may[/i] have a trade functionality which likely has imposed limitations of some sort or another to curb accounts trying to game the system or so forth. Even if you don't consider that gambling, I myself consider it a waste of money, but then i've never bought into microtransactions beyond DLC in the first place.

[QUOTE=RikohZX;52767438]The problem is that unless a game like TF2 has a trade system or market where certain things can be sold, you are effectually buying digital objects that have no actual value beyond gameplay circumstance. From cosmetics, to new weapons, to other such things like Froza 7's Mod Cards for changing race settings to get extra credits, and even digital Magic the Gathering cards. All of it is essentially only worth the player's own definition of value without external markets, and you're really just giving developers your money for an RNG value they want to conceal to get the code to give you code that only exists within that title that they proclaim is good value. You buy a booster pack, you are by all technicality throwing money into the hope of good cards you need, but you can resell them, trade them, and at worst case, a card has a physical circumstance of being able to be used for more than just its game. You buy a digital booster pack, you're effectively shooting your money into solely digital cards to use in their designated program that [i]may[/i] have a trade functionality which likely has imposed limitations of some sort or another to curb accounts trying to game the system or so forth. Even if you don't consider that gambling, I myself consider it a waste of money, but then i've never bought into microtransactions beyond DLC in the first place.[/QUOTE] All virtual card games should have completely free cards and not have any fees beyond initial entry. Forcing people to pay significant sums of money for a bunch of animated pictures on the screen with basic sounds and effects is absurd, ESPECIALLY if the meta is fucked up.

Amazing you think everyone would be used to it by now, how are people even remotely surprised about this? Get a grip, you don't have to buy DLCs or in-game loot. Hell I'm sure the SP campaign will be worth the money alone.

[QUOTE=Lebofly;52767455]Amazing you think everyone would be used to it by now, how are people even remotely surprised about this? Get a grip, you don't have to buy DLCs or in-game loot. Hell I'm sure the SP campaign will be worth the money alone.[/QUOTE] I think the issue people are having is that you're highly incentivized and rewarded for paying real money to gamble for loot even though you already paid full price for the game It DOES have free gameplay expansions which I think is really nice, but when your microtransactions tie so deeply into the gameplay with loot offering benefits like temporary invincibility while using certain abilities it's kind of a big deal

The single player campaign in the multiplayer-focused title?

[QUOTE=Lebofly;52767455]Amazing you think everyone would be used to it by now, how are people even remotely surprised about this? Get a grip, you don't have to buy DLCs or in-game loot. Hell I'm sure the SP campaign will be worth the money alone.[/QUOTE] I believe that the game should explicitly not be purchased in general, otherwise these "business plans" are still getting supported.