Facing pushback, Ryerson University cancels panel discussion on campus free speech - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Tudd;52597266]Probably just more scared of the massive groups of radical leftists that have vandalized buildings and punched people many times at events like these before.[/QUOTE] In the wake of a rally in which Trump-supporting right-wing extremists killed a woman and injured over 30 people? Yeah, sure.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52597266]Probably just more scared of the massive groups of radical leftists that have vandalized buildings and punched people many times at events like these before.[/QUOTE] The right wing is protecting Nazis. I want you to consider, very carefully, about what side you have chosen to be on.

[QUOTE=GunFox;52597650]The right wing is protecting Nazis. I want you to consider, very carefully, about what side you have chosen to be on.[/QUOTE] Honestly defending Nazis is spitting in the face of the Freedom of Speech. The Nazis deny it, they hide under it when they dont have control, and once they do. They tear it into shreds.

[QUOTE=Omesh;52588311]Surely a million articles coming out after she mentions it had nothing to do with it. That's the moment where it suddenly entered common use. I heard Richard "literally who" Spencer was apparently using it before, but places like pol embraced it afterwards.[/QUOTE] The alt-right existed way, way before Hillary brought it up. It's an offshoot of Neoreaction (as I've explained in several posts by this point) that has existed for a fair few years now. They self identified with the name, and gained prominence way before the last US elections.

[QUOTE=archangel125;52596996]The regressive left is actually right-wing in terms of their authoritarianism. They're one and the same, just different banners and different causes. And anyway, the cancellation of this debate is perfectly reasonable, considering the university could not provide a secure environment. They were probably afraid a lot of Neo-nazis would start killing people up here, too.[/QUOTE] What kind of nonsense is this? There have been plenty of left-wing authoritarianism (revolutionary France, Communist Russia/China/Vietnam). Let's not be dishonest here, they're afraid of left-wing violence. That's always the concern at university speeches.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52597753]What kind of nonsense is this? There have been plenty of left-wing authoritarianism (revolutionary France, Communist Russia/China/Vietnam). Let's not be dishonest here, they're afraid of left-wing violence. That's always the concern at university speeches.[/QUOTE] Dude, I live a thirty minute drive from Ryerson. I daresay I have a better grasp of local politics than you do. Neo-Nazis had just committed a terrorist attack at an American university, injured and killed people, and you insist non-existent left-wing extremists are to blame for similar concerns in Canada? Christ, I fear for the future of America if right-wingers like you are the norm there. This goes beyond ignorance into the realm of wilful blindness.

The FLQ was a strongly-leftist and in fact Marxist-Leninist group and that shit got violent. ...in 1970. Leaving out incidents at environmental protests (as in protesters blocking BC logging roads), I can't think offhand of any since. And even the environmental protesters weren't protesting partisan politics other than protecting the environment being associated with the left and exploiting the land for its resources (regardless of impact) being linked to the right. So, yeah, left-wing violence is not a threat in Canada. The left wing will try and take your guns away from you long before they'll get to the level of threatening you with theirs, get your complaints right.

[del]Just another Nazi apologist.[/del] Admittedly a stupid comment.

[QUOTE=archangel125;52597977]Dude, I live a thirty minute drive from Ryerson. I daresay I have a better grasp of local politics than you do. Neo-Nazis had just committed a terrorist attack at an American university, injured and killed people, and you insist non-existent left-wing extremists are to blame for similar concerns in Canada? Christ, I fear for the future of America if right-wingers like you are the norm there. This goes beyond ignorance into the realm of wilful blindness.[/QUOTE] Which terrorist attack are you talking about, and how does it connect to this closure? Note how the article specifically talks about how the closure followed people on the left making a stink about it. In fact, the left wing people planning their protest to this event have already shown themselves to be extremists through their rhetoric, like equating the speakers with Nazis, and then defending that comparison when challenged. Also, smart decision leaving the part about authoritarianism being a right wing trait. It was a ridiculous claim. [editline]21st August 2017[/editline] "I live 30 minutes away so I'm right," isn't an argument. Insults aren't arguments either.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52597753]What kind of nonsense is this? There have been plenty of left-wing authoritarianism (revolutionary France, Communist Russia/China/Vietnam). Let's not be dishonest here, they're afraid of left-wing violence. That's always the concern at university speeches.[/QUOTE] Funny...you bring up examples of the Non-american left. in North America, i think far-right groups have always been a thorn in our ass longer than leftist groups. And...do you actually attempt to read into the history of what happened to those nations instead of screaming. "THE LEFT CAUSED THEM TO BE LIKE THIS!"

[QUOTE=Uber22;52598544]Funny...you bring up examples of the Non-american left. in North America, i think far-right groups have always been a thorn in our ass longer than leftist groups. And...do you actually attempt to read into the history of what happened to those nations instead of screaming. "THE LEFT DID IT."[/QUOTE] If you have an argument to offer, then please do. Yes, I didn't bring up the American left because the history of the US is one of what we would now call conservatism. Extreme leftism wasn't really relevant in the US, like it was in Europe, until at least the 1970s. People all the way back in the 1800s recognized this difference (like De Tocqueville).

[QUOTE=archangel125;52598010]Just another Nazi apologist.[/QUOTE] this is one of the reasons i'm coming to be increasingly against these idiots who go on about we need to curtail freedom of speech they demand nazis be silenced, but when you consider sgman to be a nazi apologist i'm wondering how much further you can stretch the definition of "nazi" if you have enemies you wish to be rid of

[QUOTE=GunFox;52597650]The right wing is protecting Nazis. I want you to consider, very carefully, about what side you have chosen to be on.[/QUOTE] Woah calm down jesus christ. The event had right wing speakers and a prominent critic of the far left, so obviously criticism of the event came from the left. If the event organizers were worried about violence, it was obvious that it was the planning of a left wing protest that caused these worries. Of course if violence would occur it'd be because of both sides butting heads like a bunch of heroine addicted seals in a washing machine. I'm not defending the right wing here, I'm just saying it's not unreasonable to claim it was the far left's protests that caused the event to be cancelled especially when it's stated right in the article. Protecting the university was the right call, but it's just going to increase radical right wing ideology. We can't stop it by giving it the gift of a martyr complex and a victim mentality. Just let the fuckers talk. Joseph Peterson isn't even a nazi he's just a grump with some peter pan references and a hate boner for postmodernism. Rebel Media is just an empty husk of its former self and has only managed to achieve its own collapse. What is this hardline mentality where everything is nazis now?

[QUOTE=sgman91;52598520]Which terrorist attack are you talking about, and how does it connect to this closure? Note how the article specifically talks about how the closure followed people on the left making a stink about it. In fact, the left wing people planning their protest to this event have already shown themselves to be extremists through their rhetoric, like equating the speakers with Nazis, and then defending that comparison when challenged. Also, smart decision leaving the part about authoritarianism being a right wing trait. It was a ridiculous claim. [editline]21st August 2017[/editline] "I live 30 minutes away so I'm right," isn't an argument. Insults aren't arguments either.[/QUOTE] "In light of recent events, Ryerson is prioritizing campus safety." Ah, yes, the recent event involving left-wing extremists causing violence at a Canadian university. Do please link me an article telling me about it, I had no idea. I'm not going to dignify your "Which terrorist attack" bait with a simple response, because you, I, and everyone else here know exactly which act of terrorism I'm talking about. What I [I]will[/I] do, for the benefit of the thread, is demonstrate what sort of argument you intend to make by reminding them of the time you [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1549224&p=51702852&viewfull=1#post51702852]defended the Ferguson police department[/url], claiming that there was no evidence indicating they were systematically targeting blacks, despite the DOJ's findings clearly pointing to the opposite. Assuming you're still in the habit of denying objective reality and simple common sense, you're about to claim that the incident I'm referring to, where a far-right extremist mowed down a crowd of protestors in a car, wasn't really a politically motivated act of terrorism at all, and that that incident occurring at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville had no bearing on the decision of Ryerson University in Toronto to cancel the debate it had planned long before the attacks, merely three days after those attacks happened, and despite the fact that Neo-nazis (Or the Canadian Nationalist Party, an organization of supremacist degenerates based in Canada), emboldened by what they considered a 'success' at Charlottesville, were collaborating online with the plan to march on Ryerson as well. Am I close to the mark? Your perception of the world must be very different from that shared by most of the rest of us. It's fascinating to observe.

[QUOTE=archangel125;52598575]"In light of recent events, Ryerson is prioritizing campus safety." Ah, yes, the recent event involving left-wing extremists causing violence at a Canadian university. Do please link me an article telling me about it, I had no idea. I'm not going to dignify your "Which terrorist attack" bait with a simple response, because you, I, and everyone else here know exactly which act of terrorism I'm talking about. What I [I]will[/I] do, for the benefit of the thread, is demonstrate what sort of argument you intend to make by reminding them of the time you [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1549224&p=51702852&viewfull=1#post51702852"]defended the Ferguson police department[/URL], claiming that there was no evidence indicating they were systematically targeting blacks, despite the DOJ's findings clearly pointing to the opposite. Assuming you're still in the habit of denying objective reality and simple common sense, you're about to claim that the incident I'm referring to, where a far-right extremist mowed down a crowd of protestors in a car, wasn't really a politically motivated act of terrorism at all, and that that incident occurring at the University of Virginia in Charlottesville had no bearing on the decision of Ryerson University in Toronto to cancel the debate it had planned long before the attacks, merely three days after those attacks happened, and despite the fact that Neo-nazis (Or the Canadian Nationalist Party, an organization of supremacist degenerates based in Canada) were collaborating online with the plan to march on Ryerson as well. Am I close to the mark? Your perception of the world must be very different from that shared by most of the rest of us. It's fascinating to observe.[/QUOTE] Lol, you continue to misrepresent my argument in that Ferguson thread. I argued that the report had terrible data to back up the argument about the Ferguson police, not that the Ferguson police did no wrong. Secondly, I asked which attack because you said that it happened on an American university. The car ramming situation in Charlottesville was not an a university.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52598584]Lol, you continue to misrepresent my argument in that Ferguson thread. I argued that the report had terrible data to back up the argument about the Ferguson police, not that the Ferguson police did no wrong.[/QUOTE] No, you argued that there was no evidence indicating that they were systemically targeting blacks. Please, anyone can click the link, see your posts exactly as I've quoted them, and determine which of us is being more truthful. Let's not be a historical revisionist, sgman.

[QUOTE=archangel125;52598587]No, you argued that there was no evidence indicating that they were systemically targeting blacks. Please, anyone can click the link, see your posts exactly as I've quoted them, and determine which of us is being more truthful. Let's not be a historical revisionist, sgman.[/QUOTE] ... right, I argued that the evidence was not there. That's what I said. It might be true, it might not be true, but we can't know based only on the evidence presented in that report. [editline]21st August 2017[/editline] Here's a quote from the very page you linked: [QUOTE=Sgman91]I'm sorry, but it's just a joke of a report. They repeatedly cite statistical differences, totally ignore any conflating factors, and just assume racism. Stats are not arguments, especially when you put almost literally zero effort into any real analysis. [B]The police force may very well all be a bunch of racists, but that report sure doesn't prove it.[/B] They went in with the goal of proving racism and pretended like stats alone are enough to do so.[/QUOTE] Are you denying the left wing extremism, some violent, that acted on Jordan Peterson? How about the left-wing extremism at Evergreen State College? How about the left-wing extremism that happens all the time at Berkeley? Here's some left wing violent extremism in Canada: [url]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-far-right-la-meute-1.4254792[/url]

[QUOTE=archangel125;52598575]"In light of recent events, Ryerson is prioritizing campus safety." Ah, yes, the recent event involving left-wing extremists causing violence at a Canadian university. Do please link me an article telling me about it, I had no idea. *bunch of irrelevant shit only you and the other guy care about that is completely irrelevant to this actual thread*[/QUOTE] There is no doubt that the recent shitty political climate and the rise of the far right has caused the university to be afraid, but do you not see why it is bad to shut down speech? It only pushes people further into the fringes, this is an easily observable effect if you look at how the white identiterian movement grew like mold under an old couch without anyone noticing.

I would honestly not mind a few "free speech" rallies if they also specifically condemn nazism and white supremacy. The fact that I don't see that happening makes me question if these rallies are truly "free speech" marches or another guise for racist morons tomarch through the streets like Charlottesville

Sad outcome.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52598588]... right, I argued that the evidence was not there. That's what I said. It might be true, it might not be true, but we can't know based only on the evidence presented in that report. [editline]21st August 2017[/editline] Here's a quote from the very page you linked: Are you denying the left wing extremism, some violent, that acted on Jordan Peterson?[/QUOTE] As I recall, I took the trouble of painstakingly digging through the report to show you the evidence in question - evidence that would certainly be enough for any court to conclude systemic discrimination - and it was ignored. I have never been an apologist for the degeneracy in the regressive left or the far right - I am of the opinion, rather, that these people are a detriment to civilized society rather than of any worth to it. I never even pretended I was trying to brush off the regressive left's harassment of individuals they disagree with. The argument I made in this thread, as you recall, is that it was reasonable for a university to cancel a debate that would be attended by ideologues on the far left and right in the wake of a terrorist attack just south of our border by Neo-nazi extremists. And that to insinuate that the university shut the debate down because of fear of left-wingers getting violent, which hasn't been a problem in my country since the FLQ crisis of the 1970s, is beyond retarded, and appeared to be an irrational defense of said Nazi extremists. [QUOTE=wewt!;52598601]There is no doubt that the recent shitty political climate and the rise of the far right has caused the university to be afraid, but do you not see why it is bad to shut down speech? It only pushes people further into the fringes, this is an easily observable effect if you look at how the white identiterian movement grew like mold under an old couch without anyone noticing.[/QUOTE] In principle, I agree entirely with a well-ordered and reasonable debate to air views, whether or not the people involved are steeped in identity politics, right-wing or left. If anything, it allows the audience to clearly see just how indoctrinated and disconnected from reality the speakers are. In practice, while Tudd and even sgman seem very keen to have us believe that the university only canceled the debate because of pressure from SJWs, the truth is that in light of a Neo-nazi terrorist attack at Charlottesville that left one woman dead and many injured, and with whispers of another planned march by their counterpart degenerates in Canada on Ryerson to disrupt the event, the university's decision to cancel the debate was very reasonable for exactly the reasons they stated - campus safety.

[QUOTE=da space core;52598624]I would honestly not mind a few "free speech" rallies if they also specifically condemn nazism and white supremacy. The fact that I don't see that happening makes me question if these rallies are truly "free speech" marches or another guise for racist morons tomarch through the streets like Charlottesville[/QUOTE] It was a panel of speakers not a rally. I never got the point of actual free speech rallies because there's never really much free speech happenning, just one sided political posturing that tries to carpet bomb opposing views with the power of high volume. They're only called free speech rallies because if they called them the "I don't like non whites" rally it'd be harder to fly under the radar :v:

I'm not going to go off topic to rehash the Ferguson thread. As you said before, people can read it and decide for themselves. I believe that I've accurately presented what I said in that thread. [QUOTE]And that to insinuate that the university shut the debate down because of fear of left-wingers getting violent, which hasn't been a problem in my country since the FLQ crisis of the 1970s, is beyond retarded.[/QUOTE] Firstly, are you unable to make a point without adding an insult on it? Secondly, you're changing your claim. Your original statement was, and I quote: [QUOTE=archangel125]They were probably afraid a lot of Neo-nazis would start killing people up here, too.[/QUOTE] Don't try and make yourself sound like you were being even handed. If you had said what you just said now, then I probably wouldn't have commented at all. [editline]21st August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE]In practice, while Tudd and even sgman seem very keen to have us believe that the university only canceled the debate because of pressure from SJWs, the truth is that in light of a Neo-nazi terrorist attack at Charlottesville that left one woman dead and many injured, and with whispers of another planned march by their counterpart degenerates in Canada on Ryerson to disrupt the event, the university's decision to cancel the debate was very reasonable for exactly the reasons they stated - campus safety.[/QUOTE] What? The people who've threatened a protest are on the left, not the right. They've specifically equated the speakers with Nazis.

[QUOTE=archangel125;52598628]In principle, I agree entirely with a well-ordered and reasonable debate to air views, whether or not the people involved are steeped in identity politics, right-wing or left. If anything, it allows the audience to clearly see just how indoctrinated and disconnected from reality the speakers are. In practice, while Tudd and even sgman seem very keen to have us believe that the university only canceled the debate because of pressure from SJWs, the truth is that in light of a Neo-nazi terrorist attack at Charlottesville that left one woman dead and many injured, and with whispers of another planned march by their counterpart degenerates in Canada on Ryerson to disrupt the event, the university's decision to cancel the debate was very reasonable for exactly the reasons they stated - campus safety.[/QUOTE] I agree that it was reasonable, but it will only get worse from here if events keep getting shut down. I'm actually curious to see how mythcon will turn out, there will be a lot of opposing ideas clashing on stage there and they have refused to deplatform "problematic" speakers which is a good thing (it's not like their opponents can just debate a wall after all).

[QUOTE=sgman91;52598646]I'm not going to go off topic to rehash the Ferguson thread. As you said before, people can read it and decide for themselves. I believe that I've accurately presented what I said in that thread. Firstly, are you unable to make a point without adding an insult on it? Secondly, you're changing your claim. Your original statement was, and I quote: Don't try and make yourself sound like you were being even handed. If you had said what you just said now, then I probably wouldn't have commented at all.[/QUOTE] That's exactly what I meant. Neo-nazis had committed a terrorist attack in the States three days before the announcement to cancel Ryerson's event was made, and while left-wing violent extremism hasn't been a problem in Canada for more than thirty years, right-wing extremism has. This very year. Or are you forgetting the Quebec mosque shooting? Even-handed? I'm merely drawing a reasonable conclusion from the data available, instead of ignoring the problem entirely, as you are.

Also, about left wing violence in Canada, here are a couple examples in recent times: - [url]http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-far-right-la-meute-1.4254792[/url] - [url]http://globalnews.ca/news/3683586/counter-protesters-clash-with-police-in-quebec-city/[/url] You also have the specific targeting of people like Jordan Peterson who was one of the planned speakers at the event. [editline]21st August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=archangel125;52598656]That's exactly what I meant. Neo-nazis had committed a terrorist attack in the States three days before the announcement to cancel Ryerson's event was made, and while left-wing violent extremism hasn't been a problem in Canada for more than thirty years, right-wing extremism has. This very year. Or are you forgetting the Quebec mosque shooting? Even-handed? I'm merely drawing a reasonable conclusion from the data available, instead of ignoring the problem entirely, as you are.[/QUOTE] You're simply either not being honest or are ignorant of the left-wing extremism and violence that has happened in Canada.

You mean one example, you linked two newspaper articles talking about the exact same event. This incident happened yesterday, according to the dates on the articles? I hadn't heard of it. For this incident alone, I will maintain that it bears no relevance to Ryerson university's decision, as the Quebec thing happened days after the cancellation of the panel discussion. I will agree that anti-fascist extremists in Canada need to be curbed in light of this new information. As for the insult thing, I do apologize. It irritates me when I see people wilfully ignoring clear motives for decisions and attributing bullshit ones to them instead.

[QUOTE=Uber22;52587831]Pretty much. Basically a last ditch effort by the Far-right/alt-right to demonize the left as much as they possibly can at this point. Since this whole shitshow was basically a precision strike towards the Far-right.[/QUOTE] it's not demonizing the left, it's demonizing the terrorist antifa there is a reason he didn't just say regular left

Fucking horrible how we have men and women on both sides of the fence who attack freedom of speech. We're going to lose it if these attitudes keep up.

[URL="http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/politicians-contributors-distance-themselves-as-rebel-medias-meltdown-continues/wcm/23597cc0-4c97-4e64-bea4-999bd870f1f1"]Faith Goldy, who was to be one of the panelists at this event and who was on-location covering Charlottesville when it was happening, was fired from Rebel Media.[/URL] Why did she get fired? [URL="https://www.therebel.media/why_we_had_to_say_goodbye_to_faith_goldy"]Oh, she was just on a little podcast called The Krypto Report, which people may know is a podcast by [I]The Daily Stormer[/I].[/URL] If freedom of speech is being infringed specifically to prevent the dissemination of extreme-right and potentially outright supremacist ideas, I'm kinda okay with that. The potential for a slippery slope exists, but preventing people who associate with neo-nazis from having a platform to speak seems fairly sensible to me. [QUOTE=Mr. Someguy;52599168]Fucking horrible how we have men and women on both sides of the fence who attack freedom of speech. We're going to lose it if these attitudes keep up.[/QUOTE] Just a note, this happened in Canada and while Canada does have freedom of expression, it does not extend to hate speech in the same way that America's ironclad definition does.