Body Blitz Spa in Toronto denies transgender woman service due to 'male genitalia' policy - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;52353847]i legitimately feel the only proper reason for this would be "the clients would be uncomfortable" and i get that its a shitty thing for those affected [/QUOTE] The thing with the bathing suit is that if you hid it well enough, the other clients probably wouldn't know? Like someone else said earlier, if you aren't naked there's no one checking each guest to see if they have dicks.

[del]can a trans man go in here when they still have a vagina? if so, great, no quarrels if not, lmao, ok[/del]

[QUOTE=Bordellimies;52353922]Also I realize I might be a bit late on this, but earlier in the thread I saw this argument I don't think a spa needs to operate with the same exact principles as something like a gas station or a restaurant or a grocery store. People don't walk around naked in those places, whereas in spas it's likely that people are naked, possibly sitting close to each other in rooms like saunas or having their bodies be massaged/waxed where the spa workers have to work in close proximity to private areas. [/quote] the only reason thats an issue is because you're assigning arbitrary value to the display of genitalia, either out of culture or personal belief. Furthermore cultures can change and the western view on genitalia is slowly being phased out. [quote] Male and female sex organs are completely different from each other, so it doesn't make sense to use an argument saying "you could have places banning people for slightly different eyes or darker skin", it really is not the same thing at all.[/quote] Why would the degree of difference invalidate my argument?

I don't understand how being denied from this place is any worse than the weird looks you'd get inside.

[QUOTE=Talvy;52353979]I don't understand how being denied from this place is any worse then getting grossed out looks inside. There's no win here.[/QUOTE] how would you get grossed out looks if you tucked and wore a bathing suit or whatever?

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;52353977]then your fight is with culture, not the spa[/QUOTE] If the reasoning behind the ban is culture then im also against the spa.

[QUOTE=Saturn V;52353982]how would you get grossed out looks if you tucked and wore a bathing suit or whatever?[/QUOTE] I think hiding the bulge would be difficult, but fair point.

i guess this boils down to WHY specifically they don't want male cocks allowed, and why that have to go as far as to specify THAT particular rule rather than just 'womans only' if it's because 'BECAUSE THEN THEY'RE A MAN', then yeah, bad but if it's because of something more like 'hey man, we get it, you're a woman, but a lot of woman still feel uncomfortable around cocks regardless', in hindsight, how would they feel about lesbians getting in the spa and making other women feel uncomfortable? would that be grounds to be even more specific as to say 'STRAIGHT WOMAN ONLY, NO GENITALS'? i guess we won't know?

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;52353977]then your fight is with culture, not the spa[/QUOTE] How do you change cultural issues without confronting it in the real world?

[QUOTE=Talvy;52354003]I think hiding a budge is nearly impossible, but fair point.[/QUOTE] thats literally what tucking is for, dude

Why is getting grossed out even an argument? People getting grossed out by human anatomy (which is kinda stupid tbh fam) vs discriminating against people's identity, how is one even remotely as important as the other? One of these issues can be overcome by people themselves. The other cannot. What about entertaining the notion that we should just stop being grossed out by a schlong and two balls? if you actually think transgender women really are women, whether or not they have a cock, then the onus is on you to get used to the idea that in zones of female nudity you will see dicks, even if you're uncomfortable with it. If you don't actually think that transgender women really are women, well then I'd say there's a bigger issue to discuss than this no dick policy.

-snip im retarded-

[QUOTE=Bertie;52354033]Why is getting grossed out even an argument? People getting grossed out by human anatomy (which is kinda stupid tbh fam) vs discriminating against people's identity, how is one even remotely as important as the other? One of these issues can be overcome by people themselves. The other cannot. What about entertaining the notion that we should just stop being grossed out by a schlong and two balls? if you actually think transgender women really are women, whether or not they have a cock, then the onus is on you to get used to the idea that in zones of female nudity you will see dicks, even if you're uncomfortable with it. If you don't actually think that transgender women really are women, well then I'd say there's a bigger issue to discuss than this no dick policy.[/QUOTE] There's no doubt that culture needs to change, but until then a spa can have this kind of policy if it pleases. It's really not hindering anybody. It's not hard to find another spa in Toronto.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;52354041] you cant just tell someone "stop being grossed out lol"[/QUOTE] Yes I can. Being grossed out by parts of the human body is entirely a personal issue that has no relation to morality or politics or the discussion of gender identity. I see no difference between banning dicks because they're supposedly gross and banning really really fat old people because they're supposedly gross, and I've seen no good argument in this thread for the no dick policy that goes beyond "it's gross for some people" or "it makes women uncomfortable", and as I said, if these women are supportive of the notion that transgender women are in fact full women and not half-women who only get access to the ladies zone once they dock the dick, then these women should realize that it is on [B]them [/B]to overcome their unpleasantness around male genitalia. For the record, I'm not literally saying "change it overnight lol". What I'm saying is it's your own responsibility to handle your gross-outs. [QUOTE=Lobstuzz;52354135]There's no doubt that culture needs to change, but until then a spa can have this kind of policy if it pleases. It's really not hindering anybody. It's not hard to find another spa in Toronto.[/QUOTE] Yeah, legally I suppose that they can. But I'm also going to criticize it, which I hope you're alright with. There being many other spas doesn't really impact anything in this discussion, because assuming we agree that the spa's no dicks policy is wrongful and discriminatory, saying "there are other spas" is the same as telling the black man who can't shop in the whites-only supermarket that there are lots of other supermarkets. Arguably not nearly as extreme, but the same thing in essence.

[quote] Last year when her transgender friend bought a new bathing suit, she went to book a spa date for the two of them. “She got a beautiful bathing suit, she was describing it online, how it had a skirt and I thought, well wouldn’t it be beautiful to bring her to the spa for the day and celebrate this moment with her,” she said. [/quote] this thread makes it sound like she walked in there with her cock and balls hanging out. she had a bathing suit which she was going to wear - which even had a skirt! - and they told her friend that she couldn't come, without qualification. bullshit.

In that case the denial was unreasonable. [QUOTE=Bertie;52354033]Why is getting grossed out even an argument? People getting grossed out by human anatomy (which is kinda stupid tbh fam) vs discriminating against people's identity, how is one even remotely as important as the other? One of these issues can be overcome by people themselves. The other cannot. What about entertaining the notion that we should just stop being grossed out by a schlong and two balls? if you actually think transgender women really are women, whether or not they have a cock, then the onus is on you to get used to the idea that in zones of female nudity you will see dicks, even if you're uncomfortable with it. If you don't actually think that transgender women really are women, well then I'd say there's a bigger issue to discuss than this no dick policy.[/QUOTE] For obvious reasons, a society with unisex only changing rooms etc. will never work, at least not anytime soon.

[QUOTE=Bertie;52354141]Yes I can. Being grossed out by parts of the human body is entirely a personal issue that has no relation to morality or politics or the discussion of gender identity. I see no difference between banning dicks because they're supposedly gross and banning really really fat old people because they're supposedly gross, and I've seen no good argument in this thread for the no dick policy that goes beyond "it's gross for some people" or "it makes women uncomfortable", and as I said, if these women are supportive of the notion that transgender women are in fact full women and not half-women who only get access to the ladies zone once they dock the dick, then these women should realize that it is on [B]them [/B]to overcome their unpleasantness around male genitalia.[/QUOTE] It's not really even about being grossed out. A lot of families just think it's inappropriate especially for their children. [editline]13th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Turnips5;52354144]this thread makes it sound like she walked in there with her cock and balls hanging out. she had a bathing suit which she was going to wear - which even had a skirt! - and they told her friend that she couldn't come, without qualification. bullshit.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Talvy;52354156]In that case the denial was unreasonable[/QUOTE] They're only employees following policy. Not really bullshit or unreasonable.

[QUOTE=Lobstuzz;52354135]There's no doubt that culture needs to change, but until then a spa can have this kind of policy if it pleases. It's really not hindering anybody. It's not hard to find another spa in Toronto.[/QUOTE] And how is culture supposed to change if people just get told "sorry, policy is policy" whenever they try to question it?

[QUOTE=Saturn V;52352981]you know women go to these places some women seem to have dicks these women cant go because they have dicks so uhh it kind of is discriminatory against trans people who havent yet had or will not undergo srs[/QUOTE] I get the point you're trying to make, but I can't take this post seriously just because it echoes of "delicate feminine penis." Not disagreeing with you at all, but it still makes me giggle

[quote]It's not really even about being grossed out. A lot of families just think it's inappropriate especially for their children.[/quote] lol they wouldn't even have known if she hadn't explicitly told them. how is that inappropriate [QUOTE=Lobstuzz;52354158]They're only employees following policy. Not really bullshit or unreasonable.[/QUOTE] it's still bullshit and still a reflection on the business

[QUOTE=squids_eye;52354176]And how is culture supposed to change if people just get told "sorry, policy is policy" whenever they try to question it?[/QUOTE] That's all an employee can really do? It's up to the business owner to review their policy.

this thread is full of the same type of logic that fueled the civil rights protests in the 60s. denying people based on their physical attributes is wrong. the reasoning "it makes people uncomfy" is also a shit reason. People in the 50s-60s used the same exact logic. just sayin.

[QUOTE=Talvy;52354156] A society with unisex only changing rooms etc. will never work, at least not anytime soon. People just aren't comfortable with them.[/QUOTE] I'm not advocating for unisex changing rooms. I'm advocating for people to realize the non-importance of the dick in the discussion, how in real life a transgender woman with a dick will be so negligible in anyone's practical affairs in a naked spa that people will wonder why this was ever an issue in the first place. [QUOTE=LuaChobo;52354173]so you are saying the business should be forced to allow it because "who gives a shit if they are grossed out"[/QUOTE] That is precisely what I'm saying. [QUOTE=Lobstuzz;52354158]It's not really even about being grossed out. A lot of families just think it's inappropriate especially for their children. [/QUOTE] Well, those families can join this thread and give me a rational non-emotional/impulsive explanation of what's so inappropriate about a dick on a transgender woman.

[QUOTE=Bertie;52354213] Well, those families can join this thread and give me a rational non-emotional/impulsive explanation of what's so inappropriate about a dick on a transgender woman.[/QUOTE] Being transgender has nothing to do with it. They don't want their toddlers exposed to genitalia of the opposite sex. What's so wrong about that?

[QUOTE=Lobstuzz;52354221]Being transgender has nothing to do with it. They don't want their toddlers exposed to genitalia of the opposite sex. What's so wrong about that?[/QUOTE] Just what the hell is the issue of a toddler being exposed to genitalia of the opposite sex?

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;52354194]you are arguing for "strip freedoms to grant freedoms" there are so many better ways to go about this[/QUOTE] What freedom is more important? The freedom to not see a penis or the freedom to access the same facilities as anyone else of your gender?

[QUOTE=Lobstuzz;52354221]Being transgender has nothing to do with it. They don't want their toddlers exposed to genitalia of the opposite sex. What's so wrong about that?[/QUOTE] nobody's fucking genitalia is being exposed to anyone!!!! what are you talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This situation is so absolutely ridiculous. Just make trans individuals wear a bathing suit as an exception. This really shouldn't be that difficult to solve.

[QUOTE=Duck M.;52354238]This situation is so absolutely ridiculous. Just make trans individuals wear a bathing suit as an exception. This really shouldn't be that difficult to solve.[/QUOTE] she was already going to fucking do that

[QUOTE=Turnips5;52354237]nobody's fucking genitalia is being exposed to anyone!!!! what are you talking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE] I'm saying that's a possible reason for the policy.