[QUOTE=AJ10017;52773876]Lets see if it can get to the 10K-15K that some veteran investors predicted by the end of the year. Its still not too late to get into bitcoin, ive seen ~$130usd grow to ~$175 in about 2 months. Knowing the market though, reaching an ATH is usually followed by a big dip before it recovers again[/QUOTE]
I'm no expert on Cryptocurrency, but as somebody who does study investment markets, I would hesittate yo say that it isn't too late. The astronomical rate of appreciation here appears to be driven almost entirely by speculators who have seen the wild ride, and want to jump on board because they assume that it will continue to skyrocket them to an easy fortune. A lot of people have certainly made a lot of money on this speculation, but the intelligent investor would be SELLING their bitcoins right now, not buying.
Any investment market, especially one as speculatory and volatile as Cryptocurrency, has rising and falling periods. The rising periods will generally last a comparatively long time, steadily gaining in value, with little fits and dips and jumps along the way. The falling markets, however, hit hard and fast, and you can never really predict exactly when it's going to happen. As they say, the Bull climbs up the stairs, and the Bear jumps out the window.
Seeing such a meteoric rise in value is certainly exciting for those who invested in this previously, but to jump in now on the speculation that it will continue to do so would be ill advised. It may continue to climb for a bit, but the bubble could burst at any moment. Putting money into it while it's at it's peak value isn't investing, it's gambling.
If you do put money in now, I would urge you not to put yourself at risk. Assume that any money you put in is irretrievably lost. If you can't afford that loss, don't do it. Hopefully you'll get lucky, but don't plan on it.
Personally speaking, though, even buying this at the bottom of a market would be far too risky an investment for me to seriously consider it. These overnight millionaire stories are fun and exciting, but it's that exact volatility that makes Bitcoin so unattractive. Just as easily as my shares could rocket in value, so could they plummet. I prefer investing in fields where the risk can be mitigated with due diligence, and that simply isn't the case for Cryptocurrency.
What about waiting until the "inevitable crash" and investing them - waiting long enough for most to panic sell and then hoping that it will resettle back up for a succifiently high amount to gain a profit?
[QUOTE=Gbps;52972340]Join cryptocurrency club, we've got:
Investors speculating on currencies they think everyone will want to spend, but won't spend themselves.
Decentralized currencies that only ever have value due to central exchanges (except when purchasing illegal goods)
Investors that earn money not by the success of a product, but the success in convincing another investor to raise the price for them; both hoping that the result is stabilization.
Banking and exchange providers that have no incentives to protect your currency, and no disincentives to steal it.
A meme dog worth $400 million USD.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, exactly. Fun as it is to watch, I wouldn't put any money into this that I wasn't prepared to lose. It's a market whose foundation is speculation. That's a bit too "exciting" for me. I'll stick to real estate.
[editline]13th December 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=gufu;52973272]What about waiting until the "inevitable crash" and investing them - waiting long enough for most to panic sell and then hoping that it will resettle back up for a succifiently high amount to gain a profit?[/QUOTE]
Dunno. It's a market based on pure speculation. It may not behave like a standard market. The inevitable crash won't necessarily be followed by another rise in the case of Cryptocurrencies, as broken faith in them would make them completely worthless. With no tangible assets and no accountability or assurances, Cryptocurrency only exists as long as people agree that it has value. A massive crash could shake the faith so hard that it leaves too few people left to make it recover.
Or, it could immediately bounce back.
That's the problem. You're not investing, you're gambling. With the value of Cryptocurrency tied to nothing, it's accountable to nothing.
If you choose to put money into it, then I hope it pays off for you, but it's best to assume it lost.
[QUOTE=Harbie;52973075]Don't try and analyze stock prices. Just buy an index fund. >75% of investment firms can't beat the market even when they have dozens of people working full time trying to do just that. You're probably not going to beat them by spending 30 minutes a day on investment research/analysis[/QUOTE]
Can I nominate this for worst advice for December 2017.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52973204]Pretty much, some years will go above, some below. But if you average it all out it will come to [URL="https://www.thesimpledollar.com/where-does-7-come-from-when-it-comes-to-long-term-stock-returns/"]around that[/URL].
Btw if anyone is looking to speculate on cryptocoins try to avoid people like this who are just trying to get you to jump off the bridge with them.[/QUOTE]
I'm not trying to get people to do anything. Just throwing my speculation out there with the rest of it. Anyone who tries to speculate the price of crypto coins will be doing the same exact thing as me, looking at evidence and reasons for growth. Of course this isn't the 'Last call', you can buy coins whenever the hell you want, you can also ignore my speculation and make up your own reasons for investing in crypto coins. You can also buy high and sell low regardless of anyone else's motive for entering/leaving the market.
[QUOTE=reedbo;52973312]I'm not trying to get people to do anything. Just throwing my speculation out there with the rest of it. Anyone who tries to speculate the price of crypto coins will be doing the same exact thing as me, looking at evidence and reasons for growth. Of course this isn't the 'Last call', you can buy coins whenever the hell you want, you can also ignore my speculation and make up your own reasons for investing in crypto coins. You can also buy high and sell low regardless of anyone else's motive for entering/leaving the market.[/QUOTE]
This is true, but what I mean is that advice may not be as impartial as someone might present it as.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52973245]
Seeing such a meteoric rise in value is certainly exciting for those who invested in this previously, but to jump in now on the speculation that it will continue to do so would be ill advised. It may continue to climb for a bit, but the bubble could burst at any moment. Putting money into it while it's at it's peak value isn't investing, it's gambling.
If you do put money in now, I would urge you not to put yourself at risk. Assume that any money you put in is irretrievably lost. If you can't afford that loss, don't do it. Hopefully you'll get lucky, but don't plan on it.[/QUOTE]
This. I have a small, small fraction of my portfolio in crypto. I am fully aware that I am speculating on it rather than investing. It is a small enough amount to where if every cryptocurrency crashed to zero tomorrow, I'd be bummed but not financially ruined, or even truly impacted in the long term.
I have it stored in a hardware wallet in a fireproof case in a safe deposit box, with a paper backup at another location. I'm going to hold on to it for years, probably, and I'm prepared to watch it correct down massively before going up again. And, I'm young. Even the hardcore Bogleheads/index fund evangelists would agree that if you're going to invest/speculate on risky instruments you should do it when you're young.
But please for the love of God put most of your shit in the market.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52973284]If you choose to put money into it, then I hope it pays off for you, but it's best to assume it lost.[/QUOTE]
This is probably the best advice for crypto investors.
I make all my investment decisions in crypto as if I'm buying oxygen and consider any money i spend on it already gone.
It's the only way to make good decisions and maintain safety in such a volatile market.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52973284]Yeah, exactly. Fun as it is to watch, I wouldn't put any money into this that I wasn't prepared to lose. It's a market whose foundation is speculation. That's a bit too "exciting" for me. I'll stick to real estate.
[editline]13th December 2017[/editline]
Dunno. It's a market based on pure speculation. It may not behave like a standard market. The inevitable crash won't necessarily be followed by another rise in the case of Cryptocurrencies, as broken faith in them would make them completely worthless. With no tangible assets and no accountability or assurances, Cryptocurrency only exists as long as people agree that it has value. A massive crash could shake the faith so hard that it leaves too few people left to make it recover.
Or, it could immediately bounce back.
That's the problem. You're not investing, you're gambling. With the value of Cryptocurrency tied to nothing, it's accountable to nothing.
If you choose to put money into it, then I hope it pays off for you, but it's best to assume it lost.[/QUOTE]
How is speculating the crypto market any different than speculating the housing market? If I remember correctly housing had its own bubble and crash too right? Hasn't the stock market had a crash of its own as well? Only invest what you are willing to lose applies to ALL investments. When investing there's a thing called risk and reward, if you're not comfortable losing money on an investment then maybe you should be playing something a little more secure with less risk of losing a lot of money. I've seen cryptos crash and bounce back multiple times yet people keep talking about this bubble that's going to implode and take everything with it. Even when the crypto bubble does pop I highly doubt that the coins are going to be worth nothing, this tech is world changing and it's not going away any time soon.
[QUOTE=Dysplasia;52973307]Can I nominate this for worst advice for December 2017.[/QUOTE]
[quote]
Nearly 10 years ago Berkshire Hathaway CEO (and arguably one of the best investors on Earth), Warren Buffett, issued a challenge to the hedge fund industry — a $1 million bet that they could not put together a portfolio of hedge funds that would outperform an S&P 500 Index fund over a 10-year period.
The hedge fund portfolio is up just 22 percent over nine years. That's slightly better than 2.2 percent per year. How did the S&P Index fund do? Oh, just a smidgen better. It's up 85.4 percent, or 7.1 percent per year on average.
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/QLzDId4.png[/IMG]
[/quote]
[URL]https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/09/buffett-challenge-hedge-funds-vs-index-funds-9-years-on.html[/URL]
You're literally arguing against the advice of one of the most successful investors who have ever lived.
If that doesn't show the lack of knowledge in this thread, I don't know what will.
[QUOTE=Dysplasia;52973307]Can I nominate this for worst advice for December 2017.[/QUOTE]
Do you think you're going to beat the market, long term, by selecting individual stocks? When you invest significant sums of money you should be thinking about the return on an extremely long time scale, three to four decades if you are young. Are you prepared to spend some time every day or week for 40 years selecting individual stocks and doing market research? Do you think you have an edge over the firms filled with financial experts that spend thousands of man-hours per week trying to do that and still fail the majority of the time? How are you going to shift your portfolio around during uncertain economic periods/recessions?
The market is more or less the only investment that will guarantee, on average, a 6-7% ROI year over year. Crypto looks lucrative right now, but it's insanely risky for reasons previous posters have outlined.
Well, sold my bitcoin and etherium.
Now I just have ~.75 litecoin that I am going to sell once it hits 4-500
[QUOTE=Dysplasia;52973307]Can I nominate this for worst advice for December 2017.[/QUOTE]
Not really, man. Never invest in what you don't know, and the stock market is a pretty big beast. Unless you're looking to become a stock trader as a full time career, spending your days carefully watching and studying all its intricacies, you're going to be much better off entrusting your investments to the people who do. Index funds are a safe, if unexciting, way to grow your wealth without having to be a professional stock trader.
[QUOTE=reedbo;52973334]How is speculating the crypto market any different than speculating the housing market? If I remember correctly housing had its own bubble and crash too right? Hasn't the stock market had a crash of its own as well? Only invest what you are willing to lose applies to ALL investments. [/QUOTE]
Stock market indexes are one of the safest investments. They're one of the few things you can count on. Had you put money into the market at the peak right before the 2007-2008 recession, you'd still have made an 80% ROI had you held on to it though the recession. Had you put it in right before the great deppresesion and held on to it for 25 years (again, this is the timescale you should be thinking on) you'd have the same amount of money.
Additionally, traditional markets are incredibly secure and standardized. Everything gets marked down on paperwork, there are customer service and fraud prevention departments you can talk to if all your shit gets stolen. A friend of mine got defrauded out of $20k after her realtor's email got hacked and used to send her bogus instructions on how to transfer the money for a down payment. She wasn't able to get the money back from the hacker but the bank still refunded her a large portion of the money because they have departments set to catch that sort of shit that failed to detect what was happening to her.
Most institutions are insured against theft. It's why bank robberies don't ruin your investments. Not the case with most crypto exchanges.
Also, if you're going to be doing stock investing and don't want to do an index fund for whatever reason, there are plenty of services out there that will help you build a portfolio for you and will divvy it up into stocks, bonds and other securities.
Just remember that investments are long-term, 3-4 decades as Harbie said, and trading is a day-to-day thing. Investments can include things like a 401k so when you break it down, really all you're doing is setting money aside for hopes of a more financially stable future, long-term.
[QUOTE=Harbie;52973398]Stock market indexes are one of the safest investments. They're one of the few things you can count on. Had you put money into the market at the peak right before the 2007-2008 recession, you'd still have made an 80% ROI had you held on to it though the recession. Had you put it in right before the great deppresesion and held on to it for 25 years (again, this is the timescale you should be thinking on) you'd have the same amount of money.
Additionally, traditional markets are incredibly secure and standardized. Everything gets marked down on paperwork, there are customer service and fraud prevention departments you can talk to if all your shit gets stolen. Most institutions are insured against theft. It's why bank robberies don't ruin your investments. Not the case with most crypto exchanges.[/QUOTE]
Yep, stock indexes are safe. Doesn't change the fact that cryptos are still an investment vehicle with a high risk and high reward. That's why you educate yourself before investing, knowing that crypto is de-centralized and unregulated means that you can take steps to protect yourself from those events. Maybe in 25 years we can say that crypto is actual a stable investment with higher returns than those from traditional markets. Who knows, what I do know is that if you invest carefully you can make larger returns in significantly less time than you can with stock indexes. Just because something is risky it doesn't make it a bad investment.
Is it possible to just kinda dip my toe in, make a little bit of money and gtfo?
[QUOTE=reedbo;52973334]How is speculating the crypto market any different than speculating the housing market? If I remember correctly housing had its own bubble and crash too right? Hasn't the stock market had a crash of its own as well? Only invest what you are willing to lose applies to ALL investments. When investing there's a thing called risk and reward, if you're not comfortable losing money on an investment then maybe you should be playing something a little more secure with less risk of losing a lot of money. I've seen cryptos crash and bounce back multiple times yet people keep talking about this bubble that's going to implode and take everything with it. Even when the crypto bubble does pop I highly doubt that the coins are going to be worth nothing, this tech is world changing and it's not going away any time soon.[/QUOTE]
Speculating in the housing market is bad too. Don't invest in speculation. Real estate is a great investment vehicle, if one that has fairly slow start, because you don't have to rely on speculation. You can calculate and mitigate your risk with due diligence and basic math.
I don't close my eyes, point at a house, and say, "buy that one," and then hope that it will be a good investment. I go through a comprehensive step by step program to carefully select and vet any potential investment deal, based on actual hard numbers and current market conditions. I also rely on multiple means of capitalization to ensure that any of them failing still leaves me secure, including:
1) Long term market appreciation -- this issomewhat speculatory, and never a sound strategy as your ONLY means of capitalization), but with a bit of homework on local market trends you can generally predict what's likely in the next 5-10 years.
2) Short term forced appreciation -- this is the act of purchasing a distressed property well below market value, and improving it's value with repairs, updates, and additions. This is very low risk, IF you do your homework, as it's based on hard numbers. You calculate what you can afford to pay for the house based on what expenses are needed to bring it up to a sellable standard, and what it's after repair value is. The property is better with thorough inspections to ensure that there are no surprises. This method of capitalization is not subject to long term market changes.
3) Passive income -- renting or leasing the property for cashflow in excess of it's expenses. Again, this is relatively safe, as you can calculate the expenses, including longer term capital expenses like roof replacements, ongoing maintenance, repairs, vacancy rates, etc. While you do run a risk of bad tenants dicking you over, you can even mitigate that with strict vetting of applicants and emergency repair funds within your profit margins.
4) Equity -- as your tenants pay down your loan for you, they are building equity in the property, which can be leveraged into additional deals, or cashed out through a sale or refinancing.
And so on. I could go on, but the point is that I'm not relying on speculation in this field of investing, but hard numbers. I will know, before I buy, whether or not a deal will be profitable. Risk is never zero, but it can be managed to such an extent that your typical worst case scenario isn't financial ruination, but inconvenience and lost time.
As someone who has little understanding of the stock markets or cryptocurrencies or anything, I'm a little confused on how bitcoin actually has value. From where I'm standing it sounds like it can't really be exchanged for goods and services like a normal currency, outside of maybe buying shady illegal stuff on the darkweb. You're not making any money off of it directly like from stocks, it's not like you own part of a company. It's not backed by gold like normal currency. So why are prices rising? It seems like the only reason to buy in is the assumption that in the future, somebody else is going to want to buy in at a higher price. And THEY would only want to buy in at a higher price if they assume that the NEXT person wants to buy in at a higher price then they bought in at. Please tell me where my thinking is off because atm it sounds like bitcoin is a fucking pyramid scheme
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52973511]Is it possible to just kinda dip my toe in, make a little bit of money and gtfo?[/QUOTE]
The minimum funding for [URL="https://www.quadrigacx.com/?ref=hwvyhqe50rtw1wrglfmfpx0o"]quadriga[/URL] (please click my Referral link) is $500. But you don't have to use all of that to buy bitcoin. Once you've got money in your Quadriga account, you can theoretically just buy $1 in crypto.
Alternatively, you can buy from [URL="https://www.coinbase.com/"]coinbase[/URL] and transfer those bitcoins to your quadriga account since you can't cash out from coinbase in canada. Though, the minimum withdraw is $100.
[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52973511]Is it possible to just kinda dip my toe in, make a little bit of money and gtfo?[/QUOTE]
Let's say you want to make $200 in extra cash to spend. There's no reliable way to predict which crypto is going to 10x in value, or if one ever will again. So you'll probably put it into one of the larger market cap coins. So, let's say you're hoping it goes up 20%-40% over one week or day, which isn't that uncommon right now. In order to make that $200, you'll need to put in $500.
Sounds good, right? You'll put in your $500, wait for it to go up, then sell. But wait! Your coin, like all crypto is extremely volatile. It dips 20% over one day. Suddenly you've lost $100. At this point your choices are to sell, cut your losses, and keep your $400. Or you can hold on to it, hoping this is a brief dip. But wait. Now you're no longer "just dipping your toe in". You are holding your crypto over a long period of time for a possible return on investment. You don't have a hardware wallet, since those cost about $70-$100 and you don't want to spend that much money for something you're "just dipping your toe into". So you hold on to your crypto in Coinbase for two weeks. Woohoo! It has gone up 40%. You're ready to sell and get that $200, which is more like $180-$160 now minus the fees. But wait. Some secretary at Coinbase was dumb and got socially engineered. A flaw in their software stack exposed all of their stored private keys. You are now out $500 dollars.
tl;dr if you want to make a small amount of money on crypto without researching the risks and how to store your investment securely you're better putting it all on red.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52973554]As someone who has little understanding of the stock markets or cryptocurrencies or anything, I'm a little confused on how bitcoin actually has value. From where I'm standing it sounds like it can't really be exchanged for goods and services like a normal currency, outside of maybe buying shady illegal stuff on the darkweb. You're not making any money off of it directly like from stocks, it's not like you own part of a company. It's not backed by gold like normal currency. So why are prices rising? It seems like the only reason to buy in is the assumption that in the future, somebody else is going to want to buy in at a higher price. And THEY would only want to buy in at a higher price if they assume that the NEXT person wants to buy in at a higher price then they bought in at. Please tell me where my thinking is off because atm it sounds like bitcoin is a fucking pyramid scheme[/QUOTE]
That's about the cut of it, yeah.
[QUOTE=Harbie;52973563]Let's say you want to make $200 in extra cash to spend. There's no reliable way to predict which crypto is going to 10x in value, or if one ever will again. So you'll probably put it into one of the larger market cap coins. So, let's say you're hoping it goes up 20%-40% over one week or day, which isn't that uncommon right now. In order to make that $200, you'll need to put in $500.
Sounds good, right? You'll put in your $500, wait for it to go up, then sell. But wait! Your coin, like all crypto is extremely volatile. It dips 20% over one day. Suddenly you've lost $100. At this point your choices are to sell, cut your losses, and keep your $400. Or you can hold on to it, hoping this is a brief dip. But wait. Now you're no longer "just dipping your toe in". You are holding your crypto over a long period of time for a possible return on investment. You don't have a hardware wallet, since those cost about $70-$100 and you don't want to spend that much money for something you're "just dipping your toe into". So you hold on to your crypto in Coinbase for two weeks. Woohoo! It has gone up 40%. You're ready to sell and get that $200, which is more like $180-$160 now minus the fees. But wait. Some secretary at Coinbase was dumb and got socially engineered. A flaw in their software stack exposed all of their stored private keys. You are now out $500 dollars.
tl;dr if you want to make a small amount of money on crypto without researching the risks and how to store your investment securely you're better putting it all on red.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I totally understand where you're coming from except for the "coinbase might get hacked" thing. I'm sure that there are other things in your life worth more than your (or SIRIUS's) crypto investment that could potentially get h4x3d.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52973554]As someone who has little understanding of the stock markets or cryptocurrencies or anything, I'm a little confused on how bitcoin actually has value. From where I'm standing it sounds like it can't really be exchanged for goods and services like a normal currency, outside of maybe buying shady illegal stuff on the darkweb. You're not making any money off of it directly like from stocks, it's not like you own part of a company. It's not backed by gold like normal currency. So why are prices rising? It seems like the only reason to buy in is the assumption that in the future, somebody else is going to want to buy in at a higher price. And THEY would only want to buy in at a higher price if they assume that the NEXT person wants to buy in at a higher price then they bought in at. Please tell me where my thinking is off because atm it sounds like bitcoin is a fucking pyramid scheme[/QUOTE]
It's sort of like digital gold. For most of it's history as a store of value, gold has no actual value derived from utility, and even now only 5% is used for semiconductors. However, it is easy to verify as legitimate and easy to transfer anonymously. Gold's value derives, like Bitcoin, from proof of work. With Bitcoin this work is cryptographic calculations. With gold, it's the effort required to dig through the earth in search of an arbitrary rare mineral.
[editline]13th December 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=LegoGuy;52973582]Okay, I totally understand where you're coming from except for the "coinbase might get hacked" thing. I'm sure that there are other things in your life worth more than your (or SIRIUS's) crypto investment that could potentially get h4x3d.[/QUOTE]
It was an example, replace Coinbase getting hacked with any security risk. Ends up your phone has malware on it that replaces Bitcoin addresses it detects with the hacker's address, so all your shit gets sent there instead of your wallet, etc. Additionally, exchanges are extremely high value targets for hackers, since they're essentially scott free once they have the private keys. There's precedent for massive exchanges being hacked, too.
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52973519]Speculating in the housing market is bad too. Don't invest in speculation. Real estate is a great investment vehicle, if one that has fairly slow start, because you don't have to rely on speculation. You can calculate and mitigate your risk with due diligence and basic math.
I don't close my eyes, point at a house, and say, "buy that one," and then hope that it will be a good investment. I go through a comprehensive step by step program to carefully select and vet any potential investment deal, based on actual hard numbers and current market conditions. I also rely on multiple means of capitalization to ensure that any of them failing still leaves me secure, including:
1) Long term market appreciation -- this issomewhat speculatory, and never a sound strategy as your ONLY means of capitalization), but with a bit of homework on local market trends you can generally predict what's likely in the next 5-10 years.
2) Short term forced appreciation -- this is the act of purchasing a distressed property well below market value, and improving it's value with repairs, updates, and additions. This is very low risk, IF you do your homework, as it's based on hard numbers. You calculate what you can afford to pay for the house based on what expenses are needed to bring it up to a sellable standard, and what it's after repair value is. The property is better with thorough inspections to ensure that there are no surprises. This method of capitalization is not subject to long term market changes.
3) Passive income -- renting or leasing the property for cashflow in excess of it's expenses. Again, this is relatively safe, as you can calculate the expenses, including longer term capital expenses like roof replacements, ongoing maintenance, repairs, vacancy rates, etc. While you do run a risk of bad tenants dicking you over, you can even mitigate that with strict vetting of applicants and emergency repair funds within your profit margins.
4) Equity -- as your tenants pay down your loan for you, they are building equity in the property, which can be leveraged into additional deals, or cashed out through a sale or refinancing.
And so on. I could go on, but the point is that I'm not relying on speculation in this field of investing, but hard numbers. I will know, before I buy, whether or not a deal will be profitable. Risk is never zero, but it can be managed to such an extent that your typical worst case scenario isn't financial ruination, but inconvenience and lost time.[/QUOTE]
Great information on the housing market, drives home the fact that any investment is a bad investment if you don't do your research beforehand. Crypto is such a fresh market that we don't have many techniques and strategies to guarantee returns. In the future we'll probably have more defined ways to mitigate the risks when investing in blockchain tech. As for now you can mitigate risk by learning about the tech behind each coin, getting a profile of the developers working on the blockchain, and recognizing major events and hurdles for the future.
Side note, there are some devs working on an ethereum contract to provide 'ETFs' for blockchain currencies, that ought to be interesting. Something you might be interested in is REX, it's a smart contract with a token that allows for real estate listings without all of the stupid shit. This is the cool stuff that can be done with Ethereum and the main reason I feel more secure with my investments. There's a small chance that technology like this won't be valuable someday.
[url]http://www.rexmls.com/[/url]
[QUOTE=Harbie;52973585]It's sort of like digital gold. For most of it's history as a store of value, gold has no actual value derived from utility, and even now only 5% is used for semiconductors. However, it is easy to verify as legitimate and easy to transfer anonymously. Gold's value derives, like Bitcoin, from proof of work. With Bitcoin this work is cryptographic calculations. With gold, it's the effort required to dig through the earth in search of an arbitrary rare mineral.
[/QUOTE]
Isn't the "work" element just to ensure enough scarcity that it can be a tied to a functional currency? If the actual use as a currency were removed, does that work have any value?
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52973692]Isn't the "work" element just to ensure enough scarcity that it can be a tied to a functional currency? If the actual use as a currency were removed, does that work have any value?[/QUOTE]
Yes to the first question, no to the second. That's why it's like gold. It doesn't have any "use" outside of being debatably a good medium of exchange. I'm just pointing out there's precedent for assets like this.
[QUOTE=Mort Stroodle;52973554]It's not backed by gold like normal currency.[/QUOTE]
Standard currency hasn't been backed by gold for decades. There's very good reasons to avoid using commodities as money, which bitcoin falls under. Mostly to do with price stability, and running a country's economy.
Which is why I see the appeal of bitcoin, in the long term, is at best by being an asset you can exchange for other crypto/blockchain assets, but not really as money itself. There's some good long-term intrinsic value in blockchain technology itself for decentralized and trustworthy operations.
But as for value itself, intrinsic value, aka what you can use it for, is different from what it takes to actually exchange it. If it weren't that way we'd have no answers to questions like "why can I buy food with a piece of paper with a $20 on it" and "why do diamonds cost so much more than water."
I am just occasionally throwing 50-70 euro into my coinbase and just leaving it there. (money that I would usually just shit away another way) although I am not really sure if I should put all eggs in one basket or 3 different ones.
Then during day while I am at work - I run miner and then withdraw those bits once a week into Binance and buy up shitty 10 cent cryptos.
Who knows maybe some random day one of those shitty cryptos will sky rocket out of blue :v:
Recipe to become rich: Invest all your student loan into dogecoin, sell high (before it reach the moon in 2019), become a millionaire.
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