Students lose marks for using 'he': Universities penalise undergrads for 'offensive' gender phrase - Sensationalist Headlines

I think there is a great misunderstanding here (not helped by Murdoch's cronies spin on the events) between adhering to a professional standard (albeit seemingly arbitrary) and being really PC and morally correct. It's not being done to create a lovely safe space to defend feelings - it's simply about using the correct language. And on top of this - it's totally not a big deal. The people rabidly opposing such motions are always wasting more time and energy than the 'moral busybodies'. Maybe you [QUOTE=Tudd;52052910]should focus on actual essay writing.[/QUOTE] instead of subscribing to such manufactured outrage. You're the ones wasting time in this case.

Why couldn't you just have gender neutral pronouns from the start?

[QUOTE=Crumpet;52052950]I think there is a great misunderstanding here (not helped by Murdoch's cronies spin on the events) between adhering to a professional standard (albeit seemingly arbitrary) and being really PC and morally correct. It's not being done to create a lovely safe space to defend feelings - it's simply about using the [b]correct language.[/b] [/QUOTE] Who are the arbiters on "correct" language for using Mankind vs Humankind? How is it a natural progression of language if you are receiving a lower grade even though you might not agree with the usage? Were my previous/current professors incorrect in their lack of demand for use of correct language? Mind you, I graduated in Global Business for my undergrad, and you would expect a focus on professional language here.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52052982]Who are the arbiters on "correct" language for using Mankind vs Humankind? How is it a natural progression of language if you are receiving a lower grade even though you might not agree with the usage? Were my previous/current professors incorrect in their lack of demand for use of correct language? Mind you, I graduated in Global Business for my undergrad, and you would expect a focus on professional language here.[/QUOTE] The only one up in the air with this imo is 'mankind' and one similar that I've forgotten. Then again, could you not use the word 'Humankind?'. There are no arbiters when it comes to change in language, it often just changes with the times, and to me the logic behind that (mk v hk) seems sound. The rest of the demands seem fair enough. Can you disagree with using neutral pronouns if the gender is unknown? That surely doesn't require the 'arbiters of correct language' to smite you down, it's basic English.

As an addition to my post above, I will say that using "they" tends to be standard in papers, and has been since I was in highschool. It's much less clunky than using "he or she". He/she is for when you're referring to a specific person. I.e "Conversely, in his paper John Smith notes....". "They" is for groups of authors. "John Smith, Mary Jones, Terry Blue et. al wrote in their paper...". Though, it depends on what format you're using. Some, like MLA, want the full name (at least they did when I used it). APA/AMA both use last name only, so "they" tends to be common since it's usually not possible to discern the author's gender, or there's a complete absence of pronouns entirely when referring to authors. Using an example from one of my papers, "In a study done by Johnston, Miech, Malley, Bachman, and Schulenberg (2015)". Even in the citations, you won't be able to tell since it's using "Smith, J., Jones, M., & Blue, T."

[QUOTE=Silly Sil;52052664]I think it's unprofessional to write "woman" in an essay because it has "man" in it. It's wrong to use "manpower" too. You didn't read the article did you? Nice strawman. Shit I meant strawthey.[/QUOTE] Protip: Don't complain about a potential strawman with a strawman - makes you look like a dick.

Humankind just sounds silly to me. Mankind rolls off the tongue easier. Words are words so I don't see the big deal if you use gendered or neutral terms. Just pick what you want and move on.

I don't know why people keep insisting that "words are words", as if they lack any sort of importance whatsoever. Words are what allow us to express our thoughts and communicate our ideas with others. It's one of the distinguishing features that sets us apart as a species from other animals, I'd say they're pretty damn important.

I avoided shit like this by using "one" as a pronoun throughout college (ex: one should read this post to see my point). I sounded like fucking yoda and it makes you feel like an idiot typing that way.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52053224]I don't know why people keep insisting that "words are words", as if they lack any sort of importance whatsoever. Words are what allow us to express our thoughts and communicate our ideas with others. It's one of the distinguishing features that sets us apart as a species from other animals, I'd say they're pretty damn important.[/QUOTE] Words are important, therefor people should be able to say whatever the hell they want [sp]if they're ready to deal with the social consequences of saying dumb shit[/sp]. The importance of words is greatly diminished if people aren't able to communicate their ideas with others. We can't censor other people, ourselves, and we especially can't let people change languages to fit their agendas.

[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52052815]people like you (who think talking to others shouldn't be a concern) when working in IT is why IT depts are hated by other depts in organisations. [/QUOTE] i don't work in IT i was playing on a stereotype for a couple of stars, apologies if that wasn't painfully obvious

What the fuck even is 'humankind'? That shit doesn't exist.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52052910]Working on my Masters, and have only encountered this once out of dozens of professors. And that professor who cared was off in her profession/subject material to begin with. Mankind is better off without such moral busybodies and should focus on actual essay writing.[/QUOTE] Also working on my Master's (in journalism, undergrad also in journalism), and there are certain fields where word use is very important. Everything I've written professionally has had to comply with AP style for newspapers and Chicago for magazines. Class work is usually MLA, sometimes Chicago. I personally don't see how this is really any different than making a class adhere to the rules of any existing writing standard.

I don't think I've ever been marked off for not using explicitly gender neutral language in an essay. My university had an academic policy about "inclusive language" but we were never really told what that means other than don't write a racist or sexist essay.

fuck off [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why reply" - Reagy))[/highlight]

Language was a mistake.

[QUOTE=DoctorSalt;52053152]Protip: Don't complain about a potential strawman with a strawman - makes you look like a dick.[/QUOTE] Protip: You should know what a strawman is before calling someone out on it - makes you look like a cunt. I'm not making it look like the article or anyone else wants to ban the use of the word "woman", am I? It's a mockery of this stupid logic.

[QUOTE=Mitsuma;52052248]Reads like a joke but it is real and stuff like that seems to pop up more and more.[/QUOTE] Some people need to lose their fucking jobs. Seriously, if I'm taking on tens of thousands of dollars in student loans only to lose points on an essay because some fuckball SJW twat has a hair up their ass, I'd lose my shit.

How often do you not know someone's gender? This seems like a big deal over something that almost never happens. It's also asinine to call something "perfessionalism" when the vast majority of actual professionals dont care.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52053796]How often do you not know someone's gender? This seems like a big deal over something that almost never happens.[/QUOTE] more than you think, if you think it's hard identifying what gender somebody is - it's even harder for them to do it themselves - especially these days when one has so many choices

I'm so glad I don't study liberal arts

I can't help but think Tumblr may have been involved with this.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52052523]It should be clear from the context.[/QUOTE] sam looked out to the crowd of people. they were anxious about the upcoming performance. who is they referring to in this instance?

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;52053832]I'm so glad I don't study liberal arts[/QUOTE] This is something the sciences prefer too. Keeping language in a essay, paper, proceeding, etc. as gender neutral as possible is important, otherwise you're making assumptions about a person, or the reader. And making assumptions makes you look like an illiterate ass at this level. You're all getting mad over literally fucking nothing because you've bought into Torygraph and Daily Hell spin. Good work.

[QUOTE=sgman91;52053796]How often do you not know someone's gender? This seems like a big deal over something that almost never happens.[/QUOTE] Off the top of my head, it's very useful when analysing literature as you have to comment on how language affects the reader.

Stop bitching about the "humankind" thing, it's the dumbest fucking complaint you could possibly have in response to this. We have more words to describe the human population than just "mankind" and "humankind", and most of them aren't newly-invented controversial words either. You don't need to say either one at all, ever, to be able to communicate effectively.

[QUOTE=codenamecueball;52052557]implying working in IT requires any kind interacting with other people[/QUOTE] Depends entirely on what your particular tasks consist of. "IT" is a pretty broad thing, you know, but I'd say all lines of IT work at the very least require you to be somewhat socially competent

[QUOTE=hexpunK;52053897]This is something the sciences prefer too. Keeping language in a essay, paper, proceeding, etc. as gender neutral as possible is important, otherwise you're making assumptions about a person, or the reader. And making assumptions makes you look like an illiterate ass at this level. You're all getting mad over literally fucking nothing because you've bought into Torygraph and Daily Hell spin. Good work.[/QUOTE] Only when it's relevant (such an in a methodology where people of either gender may be performing the experiment thus you'd use 'they'), not politically charged nonsense like throwing a hissy fit over the word "man-kind". Also it's an article from the guardian not the telegraph so you can't pull that one.

[QUOTE=Aredbomb;52053917]Stop bitching about the "humankind" thing, it's the dumbest fucking complaint you could possibly have in response to this. We have more words to describe the human population than just "mankind" and "humankind", and most of them aren't newly-invented controversial words either. You don't need to say either one at all, ever, to be able to communicate effectively.[/QUOTE] Yeah, but what if I want to? The entirety of the point here is that preventing somebody from using "mankind" (and similar words) does not accomplish anything. Using "they" instead of "he\she" makes sense as it allows the reader to follow the text better and it is not clearly as clunky, but there is literally zero difference between "mankind" and "humanity".

[QUOTE=Levithan;52052378]Using "they" is pretty much the perfect solution.[/QUOTE] "They" can be vague though, since it can refer to either a single person, several people, or people in general. Within context is generally isn't an issue, but I still wish there was a gender neutral term specifically for when one is referring to a single person.