Study finds that e-cig regulations push young people to conventional cigarettes - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Marbalo;52090974]Anyone who must ask this sort of question to begin with doesn't understand life. Not everyone lets the concept of health run their everyday lives. It's not just smoking, it's working in physical labor that guarantees fatal or severe, permanent disabilities later in life. It's drinking heavily on the weekends with friends. It's going somewhat above speed limits because sometimes you just feel like it. Everyday decisions in life, big or small, stem from an abundance of factors that guide us. Long term health, oftentimes, isn't really high on that priority list. People don't smoke cigarettes because of any of the convoluted reasoning people who dont smoke come up with. Oral fixation, peer pressure, none of this outdated nonsense. Studies that claim to have "cracked the nicotine mystery" are bogus and use faulty methodology by nature - because it's trying to study a social phenomena that is built around lying to oneself and obfuscating the fact that you are harming your own self by indulging. When it comes down to it, it's as simple as enjoying a cigarette because you like it, because you've "earned" it after a particularly difficult task or situation. Or maybe because it just brings up memories of a time where you were once younger and happier. Cigarettes are more than just "cancer sticks", and play a significant role in the lives of many. There is a severe disconnect between non-smokers and smokers in this regard.[/QUOTE] Dude your stupid habit doesn't make you an expert on life get over yourself It amazes me how pretentious a lot of smokers manage to be

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;52093187]why would anyone start drinking, eat fastfood, etc[/QUOTE] Fast food kills the person, but does not take 60k people with it

[QUOTE=Marbalo;52090974]Anyone who must ask this sort of question to begin with doesn't understand life. Not everyone lets the concept of health run their everyday lives. It's not just smoking, it's working in physical labor that guarantees fatal or severe, permanent disabilities later in life. It's drinking heavily on the weekends with friends. It's going somewhat above speed limits because sometimes you just feel like it. Everyday decisions in life, big or small, stem from an abundance of factors that guide us. Long term health, oftentimes, isn't really high on that priority list. People don't smoke cigarettes because of any of the convoluted reasoning people who dont smoke come up with. Oral fixation, peer pressure, none of this outdated nonsense. Studies that claim to have "cracked the nicotine mystery" are bogus and use faulty methodology by nature - because it's trying to study a social phenomena that is built around lying to oneself and obfuscating the fact that you are harming your own self by indulging. When it comes down to it, it's as simple as enjoying a cigarette because you like it, because you've "earned" it after a particularly difficult task or situation. Or maybe because it just brings up memories of a time where you were once younger and happier. Cigarettes are more than just "cancer sticks", and play a significant role in the lives of many. There is a severe disconnect between non-smokers and smokers in this regard.[/QUOTE] this reads like a smoking advert from the 50's

[QUOTE=Vodkavia;52090628]Why the fuck are young people smoking to begin with is the question people should really be asking.[/QUOTE] Because it's rebellious? Your parents tell you not to smoke, ads tell you not to smoke, even movies does then by extention smoking is a form of rebellion.

[QUOTE=Berman Slick;52091823]What Cigarettes are 100% evil and bad for you, there's no benefit to smoking lol. Coming from an ex smoker. They might not give you cancer, but the myriad of negative health effects make an impact[/QUOTE] Yeah, my mom started smoking in her youth and kept the habit for years until a couple of months ago when she was briefly hospitalized due to shortness of breath. She's tried to quit time and time again over the past two decades, tried e-cigs without success, and it's been painful for her but she's not had anything besides breathing impairment / weakness thankfully. I know I probably have at least one side-effect or two from being exposed to plenty of second-hand smoke as a kid.

I'll never understand why smoking is still such a huge thing. It costs alot of money that could've been spend on something better, it smells fucking disgusting and just makes your life worse overall. If you really want to smoke then get a vape with a decent taste and go wild, at least it won't leave a permanent smell of disgust behind. Literally everyone I know who smoked before in their life said that is was a terrible decision and regret doing that. Not once was there a thing that smoking did in a positive way. [editline]12th April 2017[/editline] They should tax it harder imo, if you want to suck all the money from every why not go all the way

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;52093612]smoking is a decision that should be up to the person who decides to light a cig if someone who smokes follows all the rules that are in place to not affect non smokers, then who are you to tell them they cant smoke ?[/QUOTE] Someone concerned with their health. Someone concerned with their breath. Someone concerned with the smell of their clothes. Someone concerned with the smell of the place they're standing. Etc.

[QUOTE=matt000024;52090611]You do realize there have been very little research about the long term effects of vaping.[/QUOTE] Glycerin vapor is definitely less harmful than radioactive tar and ash. This isn't even debatable. [editline]12th April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Marbalo;52093171][I]Why yawn loudly instead of having a smoke? Why chew gum when you could light a cigarette? [/QUOTE] Because one is scientifically proven to fucking kill you? I enjoy a good hookah session a couple of times a year but tobacco is fucking BAD for you.

[QUOTE=phygon;52093654]Because one is scientifically proven to fucking kill you? I enjoy a good hookah session a couple of times a year but tobacco is fucking BAD for you.[/QUOTE] It's also pretty weird to substitute yawning with smoking considering you usually yawn when you are in need of oxygen.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;52093699]Alcohol is also scientifically proven to "fucking kill you", that doesn't stop people from drinking in excess, even to a higher degree than people who smoke. [/QUOTE] You know what the beauty of alcohol is? It doesn't do anything directly to the people around the person that drinks. And I say indirectly because I've grown up with an alcoholic parent. [editline]12th April 2017[/editline] Also, Marbalo, your username kinda reminded me about the [URL="www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-marlboro-men-20140127-story.html"]Marlboro men[/URL] who was supposed to be synonymous with US culture. Plural, because they fucking died of smoking related diseases.

[QUOTE=gokiyono;52093719]You know what the beauty of alcohol is? It doesn't do anything directly to the people around the person that drinks. And I say indirectly because I've grown up with an alcoholic parent.[/QUOTE] Smoking doesn't really either unless you're in a sealed house with them. Second hand smoke from the dick at starbucks won't give you cancer. [QUOTE=Marbalo;52093699]Alcohol is also scientifically proven to "fucking kill you", that doesn't stop people from drinking in excess, even to a higher degree than people who smoke. It's difficult for you to comprehend it because you don't want to comprehend it, just like the majority of people in this thread. Why bother discussing it then?[/QUOTE] The majority of people who drink alcohol don't chuck back a shot to reward themselves after working for an hour because their insatiable addiction told them to or they wouldn't be able to focus anymore. You literally suggested that substituting smoking for yawning wasn't unreasonable two seconds ago, you're addicted as fuck.

If anyone is interested in the effects and reason behind drugs, addiction, and it's relation to social life you should read the work of Gabor Maté.

[QUOTE=phygon;52093737]Smoking doesn't really either unless you're in a sealed house with them. Second hand smoke from the dick at starbucks won't give you cancer.[/quote] To quote the CDC [Quote]There is no risk-free level of secondhand smoke exposure; even brief exposure can be harmful to health[/quote] As an asthmatic I loathe smokers, and even vapers because it all causes me to start having issues breathing. would be pretty nice if people didn't stand around blowing shit into the air all the time.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;52090974]Anyone who must ask this sort of question to begin with doesn't understand life. [/QUOTE] Your status as "living" doesn't guarantee you the title of "King of Life", regardless of how well off you might or might not be. Life has a different meaning for different people. [QUOTE=Marbalo;52090974]Not everyone lets the concept of health run their everyday lives. It's not just smoking, it's working in physical labor that guarantees fatal or severe, permanent disabilities later in life. It's drinking heavily on the weekends with friends. It's going somewhat above speed limits because sometimes you just feel like it. Everyday decisions in life, big or small, stem from an abundance of factors that guide us. Long term health, oftentimes, isn't really high on that priority list. [/QUOTE] I lived a good chuck of my late childhood (pre highschool and then some after school) in a town filled with stories of people who sprawled their backs due to working in the glass factories. None of them are celebrating that at all, they did it out of necessity, not because they "felt good about it". It was either that or not being able to feed their families. Also Mr. Driverman can feel good about his fast driving skills and whatever, I'm not going to stop him from turning people's small mistakes into an event where their whole family gets injured or maybe die because of a corner turned a little too soon. Fuck their families amirite, Mr. Gooddrivesman's gotta have his speed high.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;52090974]Anyone who must ask this sort of question to begin with doesn't understand life. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Marbalo;52090974]peer pressure - outdated nonsense [/QUOTE] uh you clearly don't understand it as well

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;52093755]pretty sure everyone knows the health risks associated with smoking, which is already taught starting at primary school (and proven effective bc over here the in last few generations the percentage of people who decide to smoke has decreased enormously compared to the end of the last century), so there really cant be any situation for someone who would start smoking right now where they would not be aware of the risks and the latter again aplies to the rules that go with smoking (no smoking in places you are not allowed to smoke, simple as that)[/QUOTE] You asked for reasons why someone who doesn't smoke would be concerned with someone who smokes. What are you arguing? [QUOTE=TheRealRudy;52093755]on a different note, for non smokers the health warnings put on cig packs have proven effective too, so why not start labeling other harmful products like alcohol or even mcdonalds for that matter. not like it would turn off many of the regular users from buying the products nor like its turning off regular smokers, but youd be still able to teach the public of the health risks associated with those products as well if i understand the logic behind it right[/QUOTE] I probably wouldn't mind that. Though, the problem with smoking is that it affects everyone around the person who smokes. That isn't really what happens with fast food and stuff. [QUOTE=TheRealRudy;52093755]point im trying to make its your decision and responsibility, just like you shouldnt go drunk driving you shouldnt smoke in public. youre the person making the decision to enjoy a burger, a beer, a cigarette, etc. and again if the person follows all the rules and does not affect others, who are you to tell them they cant ?[/QUOTE] If someone does it at their home without anyone but people who are okay with it. But the problem is that they don't. Having a liberal viewpoint is all well and good when it doesn't affect the people around the person smoking.

[QUOTE=matt000024;52090611]You do realize there have been very little research about the long term effects of vaping.[/QUOTE] True, but im willing to bet my left nut that inhaling vegetable glycerin vapor+nicotine is way more healthy than inhaling all the nasty burning byproducts of tobacco.

The difference between smoking and eating fast food is that at least you need food to live. Do you need [i]that specific[/i] food? Of course not, but at least you still need to eat [i]something.[/i] Your body does not have a natural need to inhale burning cigarettes. The high you get is minimal so it has no real medicinal effect as opposed to marijuana (which you can also vaporize or eat as opposed to smoking it). Simply put, there is no justifiable need that is being met with cigarettes. The only need a 10-year smoker is meeting is his need for cigarettes that only exists because he is addicted to cigarettes. It's okay to admit you're addicted to cigarettes and can't stop. Pretending that people don't continue to smoke because they're addicted is just lying.

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;52094794]you do realize there are tons of people who enjoy smoking just for pleasure when theyre just following the rules and not affecting anyone else you have no right to tell them they cant[/QUOTE] Did I say you can't smoke?

[QUOTE=TheRealRudy;52094799]youre implying it[/QUOTE] You inferred it. I am not responsible for the wild statements you imagine I am saying. At no point did I say you should not be able to smoke.

The first line already made me not take this article seriously "Which have less nicotine"? My friend vapes 18mg/ml juice. ~2 puffs is probably comparable to an entire cigarette

[QUOTE=Kylel999;52094828]The first line already made me not take this article seriously "Which have less nicotine"? My friend vapes 18mg/ml juice. ~2 puffs is probably comparable to an entire cigarette[/QUOTE] The article is about individually-sold pre-measured e-cigarettes, not the giant box vapes that people use to blow giant vape clouds in your face as you walk by them.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;52093699]Alcohol is also scientifically proven to "fucking kill you", that doesn't stop people from drinking in excess, even to a higher degree than people who smoke. It's difficult for you to comprehend it because you don't want to comprehend it, just like the majority of people in this thread. Why bother discussing it then?[/QUOTE] The big, big difference between smoking and drinking? The method of addiction. Nicotine is an inherently highly addictive substance, it takes very little to get hooked on, and is a right cunt to get away from. Nicotine addiction spawns from you doing something you don't need to do to get a "good" feeling (as it provides zero benefits outside of this). Alcoholism is a different form of dependency, just drinking a bit every so often isn't going to ruin your life. It takes either an extreme amount of drinking, or some psychological reason for you to want to stay drunk the entire time you're awake to form an addiction. You're probably only going to die if you drink in excess. Periodic drinks aren't much of a problem, and you probably wont become an alcoholic doing so. Smoking has a cumulative effect on your health that can be quite hard to reverse, and takes very little to create an addiction to. Smoking is fucking stupid my dude. Find better things to trigger dopamine releases if you want a "reward".

[QUOTE=Marbalo;52093171][I]"How about you just, I don't know, substitute that "earned" feeling with something else?" "-How about I dont?" [/I] It's as logical as you paint it as. Why yawn loudly instead of having a smoke? Why chew gum when you could light a cigarette? It's a two-way street, only you don't see it that way, because you operate under the pretense that cigarettes are inherently something to be discarded. This is the very same disconnect I mentioned in my post. People smoke for underlying personal reasons. It [I]could [/I]be because they believe they've earned it, or it could just be those few minutes of solace and tranquility that keeps them sane, or happy if they otherwise aren't. My point isn't narrow as you chose to assume. It could literally be anything, but it's always something. Sometimes people can even lie to themselves about wanting to quit, maybe even lying to others because saying you [I]don't [/I]want to quit will instantly paint you as an idiot even though it's the truth, sometimes it's a struggle between realizing that it's harmful for you, and wanting to smoke regardless of the fact. And this constant back and fourth is a cycle that can seldom be broken. I never claimed cigarettes make you an expert on life, you chose to interpret it that way. I claimed that [I]not grasping the inherent value of cigarettes [/I] is a telltale sign of not understanding life, because it's not just the cigarettes, it's the act of sacrificing your health for the sake of pleasure, which encompasses a much wider set of habits people choose to do everyday. There's nothing pretentious about this, but if it makes you feel better to dismiss it as such instead of seeing and understand the act itself, then feel free to brush it off.[/QUOTE] I smoke, and I still think you're a raging bag of pretentiousness when you post like this

[QUOTE=Ltp0wer;52090563]Yeah, you're right. We shouldn't try to regulate e-cig use among people under 18. Sorry Jimmy, you can't have a marlboro, but you and your buddies in fifth grade should try out Strawberry Breeze. Tastiest way for children to get their nicotine![/QUOTE] How about you get them Strawberry Breeze without nicotine then instead :downs:

I moved from smoking a pack a day to chain vaping e-cigs. E-cigs were definitely way less harmful, but the propylene glycol started giving me tinnitus after two years of use. I stopped right away as soon as I realized the cause and luckily the tinnitus stopped after two or three weeks. I don't know if there are actual studies done but if you google tinnitus and ecig/vaping you'll find a lot of results. I'm happy that I finally quit vaping though, I've always been meaning to do it. Exercising is a lot easier, my lungs haven't had a break in years.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;52090974]Anyone who must ask this sort of question to begin with doesn't understand life. Not everyone lets the concept of health run their everyday lives. It's not just smoking, it's working in physical labor that guarantees fatal or severe, permanent disabilities later in life. It's drinking heavily on the weekends with friends. It's going somewhat above speed limits because sometimes you just feel like it. Everyday decisions in life, big or small, stem from an abundance of factors that guide us. Long term health, oftentimes, isn't really high on that priority list. People don't smoke cigarettes because of any of the convoluted reasoning people who dont smoke come up with. Oral fixation, peer pressure, none of this outdated nonsense. Studies that claim to have "cracked the nicotine mystery" are bogus and use faulty methodology by nature - because it's trying to study a social phenomena that is built around lying to oneself and obfuscating the fact that you are harming your own self by indulging. When it comes down to it, it's as simple as enjoying a cigarette because you like it, because you've "earned" it after a particularly difficult task or situation. Or maybe because it just brings up memories of a time where you were once younger and happier. Cigarettes are more than just "cancer sticks", and play a significant role in the lives of many. There is a severe disconnect between non-smokers and smokers in this regard.[/QUOTE] I've never had a cigarette in my mouth (I am an asthmatic and I know by gut that it would be a shit-ass experience for me anyway), but I very regularly end up in moods that are quite compatible with "eff the consequences, I am doing this". I know I for one will never smoke, but it's confusing to me how can the society and scientists ask "why do people smoke" - it's pretty fucking obvious to me, even as an act I can never perform myself. Nicotine is a powerful stimulant with high immediate bioavailability when delivered through smoke. In short, it just feels good. The body likes it. The mind likes it. To many people out there, the moments when they feel good are rare and far between. Money might not be able to buy genuine, lasting happiness, but there you go, you can buy a temporary, anytime available form of it. Unlike alcohol (in which I do indulge sometimes) it doesn't really make one perform worse in tasks physical nor mental (probably slightly better, simply through providing generally improved mood, at least until it's just about able to balance out withdrawal), so one can happily indulge in it during a work break. It's convenient. And lets face it; all this oral fixation bullshit and peer pressure and whatnot; you can call it what you want, the bottom line is - [B]smoking is cool[/B]. It just is. Even if you manage to refuse it on conscious level, which is good and healthy, I should add - there's so many culturally significant templates it lends itself so well. The most obvious Marlboro cowboy, the cigar chewing sergeant, the gentleman with a pipe, the enchanting French lady with a thin cigarette in this ridiculous long extension stick thing - smoking is something our culture quickly grew to recognise as not just okay, but cool, impressive. It's been heartily helped by the advertising budgets of the tobacco companies for sure, but failure to recognise the cultural significance of smoking makes the influence of it harder keep control over, for yourself. Sure, you can have a dozen other things associated with smoking - trailer trash, your abusive failure of parents, bums, whatnot! It's wholly possible your very personal experience and association with cigarettes might be a well enough negative one, but when we speak of the western society on the whole, the impression is still there, and it will take a good while to erase. TL;DR: Smokers are only human after all. Smoking is to feel good by design. We are all ready to ignore consequences to things, sometimes. Culturally, smoking is cool and deep inside you know it, even if you successfully (and advisably!) bury it under more rational understanding of how bad it is for you.

Smoking being seen as rebellious and cool goes hand in hand with peer pressure, it's a feedback loop. It might seem unrelated but I suggest watching this video on radiation until the end to see as to why smoking cigarettes is a really bad idea: [video]https://youtu.be/TRL7o2kPqw0[/video]

I just wanna throw this out there: I'm a smoker, and smoking is awful. I don't believe in prohibition, of course, but nobody should do it. Vapes being banned for children just like cigs is entirely fair, given that we still don't know the health ramifications, and it's entirely reasonable to believe it's a gateway to cigarettes. (I primarily vape, and when I run out of vape supplies I reach for cigs to get my fix because it's more convenient. Personal anecdote, but I can see a kid doing the same. I'm up to like 5-6 cigs a day which isn't bad, but still isn't great and it will only go up from there.) In other words: As a smoker, Marbalo is full of shit. Marbalo more like Marlboro. Smoking sucks, is expensive, and I don't have the willpower to kick the habit.

A lot of people seem to be overlooking the possibility that people smoke because it's enjoyable.