Oskar Gröning 'Bookkeeper of Auschwitz' asks for pardon - Sensationalist Headlines

People who have sympathy for this guy based on his age or role are scumbags. The fucker counted and balanced the books for all the money, gold teeth, and wedding rings the Nazis could filch off people before they murdered them en masse in gas chambers. I don't care if he wanted to get out. He still did the job. He should count his lucky stars that he's only getting jail, because all the people he watched jump off trains only to end up in gas chambers didn't have the same opportunity.

[QUOTE=Lonestriper;53176094]all that and a bag of po-ta-to chips[/QUOTE] GG on missing the point. Most of us aren't arguing over the trail, and I'd go so far as to say a good chuck aren't even against the actual conviction, the point we're trying to make - and the one people like you seem to either purposefully miss, or for reasons unknown can't grasp - is the act and process of a [U]jail sentence[/U]. That is to say, the actual incarceration in an actual prison cell. What you are seemingly suggesting is that by us saying "what good does a cell do", we are actually secretly saying but don't just say it for who knows why is "what good does a trial do" - which are two different things. Now if that isn't actually what you mean than by god you've got to work on your articulation, because that's what this post is making it out to be. It is completely possible to have a trial, to have conviction and all that, to officially on-record make this man forever a criminal - without throwing him in a cell. There are much [B]MUCH[/B] more deserving people out there for those cells, this is what (most) of us are trying to argue here. Although.... upon further reading, there is definitely something to be said the average prison cell in Germany, because they're looking like World-Class-Olympian tier compared to an American cell. Hell the old man might be better off inside than on his own, going off of some basic reading on how some German prisons are ran. :v:

Quote bugged, i agree with coldroll5 Also surprised how many people here cant put themselves in his shoes, just like joost said i would 100% take the opportunity to do a admin job than risk being drafted into active duty and get killed/ have to shoot people. I believe him when he said he had no active involvement in the murder of people at Auschwitz. Im sure people will say well if that was me i would have double crossed the nazi's or tried to free people but i guarantee 99% of you wouldn't have.

[QUOTE=mickers;53176253] Also surprised how many people here cant put themselves in his shoes, just like joost said i would 100% take the opportunity to do a admin job than risk being drafted into active duty and get killed/ have to shoot people. I believe him when he said he had no active involvement in the murder of people at Auschwitz. [/QUOTE] "I would rather work at a death camp rather than shoot people at the front" :what: You guys know that "accessory to murder" is a thing, yes?

[QUOTE=ubersoldier;53176217]GG on missing the point. Most of us aren't arguing over the trail, and I'd go so far as to say a good chuck aren't even against the actual conviction, the point we're trying to make - and the one people like you seem to either purposefully miss, or for reasons unknown can't grasp - is the act and process of a [U]jail sentence[/U]. That is to say, the actual incarceration in an actual prison cell. What you are seemingly suggesting is that by us saying "what good does a cell do", we are actually secretly saying but don't just say it for who knows why is "what good does a trial do" - which are two different things. Now if that isn't actually what you mean than by god you've got to work on your articulation, because that's what this post is making it out to be. It is completely possible to have a trial, to have conviction and all that, to officially on-record make this man forever a criminal - without throwing him in a cell. There are much [B]MUCH[/B] more deserving people out there for those cells, this is what (most) of us are trying to argue here. Although.... upon further reading, there is definitely something to be said the average prison cell in Germany, because they're looking like World-Class-Olympian tier compared to an American cell. Hell the old man might be better off inside than on his own, going off of some basic reading on how some German prisons are ran. :v:[/QUOTE] If that's the problem I seriously have to question how gaol is used at a punishment for crimes. If you're not putting people who aided and abetted genocide in a prison cell what's the point? If that's not enough reason to keep them in prison it brings into question why we punish criminals in the first place.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;53174926]I'm curious to what you think should be done about the school shooter in Florida, a very much more reason crime. If he gives a very honest apology and promises to never hurt a fly ever again, should he just be let go? Alternatively, if he had escaped like he tried to after the shooting, how long until "ah well it was a too long ago to punish him now"? A week? A year? A decade?[/QUOTE] I forgot that the bookkeeper was the one who personally rounded up and gassed all those jews

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;53176287]"I would rather work at a death camp rather than shoot people at the front" :what: You guys know that "accessory to murder" is a thing, yes?[/QUOTE] He wasn't offered a job to be part of a systematic kill camp. He was offered an administrative job at a prison camp. He would collect the prisoners' belongings and record them so they could be returned once the prisoners left. It was only later that he learnt it wasn't like that. But at that point there was nothing he could do. He signed a contract, swore an oath and leaving would result in death. Either by firing squad or being sent straight into Russian machineguns.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;53176287]"I would rather work at a death camp rather than shoot people at the front" :what: You guys know that "accessory to murder" is a thing, yes?[/QUOTE] Yes, I would rather pick a paper pusher position in a prison camp far from the front lines than having to deal with various diseases rampant on the front line, getting shot by someone who hates being there as much as I do, or being turned into a fine red mist by bombers or artillery at any moment in the next several years.

To be honest, i'm of the mindset that we should be moving to counter neo-nazis and particularly hateful movements today, rather than aiming to continue to spend millions of dollars to set examples out of the past to a modern movement that probably don't even know over half of who these people are beyond a random Google search. World War II vets are dying with regularity, and there's better places to focus than the hunt for the 70-years-prior complicit. The era where Nazi Germany rose to power was one celebrated by its populace for saving them from poverty and destitution caused by the profit and glory seeking Allies of the first World War, an old shame of Germany that they regularly censor and take questionable attempts to be on the moral high ground afterwards. Yeah, people who did utterly grisly or inhumane stuff should be in prison, and I won't debate that at all. But the amount of effort it's taking to find these guys just so that we can effectively parade them as examples against the inherent evils of the Nazis has been overshadowing the intent for quite a while already. It's like making war trophies out of fossils, and in Germany's case here, practically screams to me that they do this out of some sense of retribution and self-vindication of separating themselves from their past rather than trying to learn from it. And by this point, we'll apparently single out and round up any and all former Nazis for being a Nazi, regardless of actions or crimes. Doesn't that sound a bit [i]tone deaf[/i] today, to basically go, "Well he's a Nazi, so it's perfectly fine to put them in prison for the rest of their remaining life as he's guilty period, regardless of due process"? Isn't there fear for a while now that Germany could turn that into a sort of strawman's fallacy?