Take-Two sent a C&D letter to the OpenIV team, therefore killing GTA 5 modding

[Curls]

[QUOTE=Andre Gomes;52365329]I still haven't purchased GTA V due to they still selling the game at the same price as a new released game[/QUOTE]

tbh this is a practice I want to see fuck off right quick

I've thought about purchasing games with a year or 2 delay at some point, nix the really special/exceptional ones

it'd be perfect too.. every 2 years I could buy a 80ti series card AND get games at a huge discount with them being far more likely to not run like a man sprinting the Olympics with a honey badger trapped in his ass

[Skipcast]

[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;52366009]It's the main reason to buy GTA on PC over a console though. [B]The game plays better with a controller anyway[/B] and it doesn't look that much better graphically unless you install an ENB or high res texture pack, the main thing you're getting out of PC is mods.[/QUOTE]

I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with you on this one. Playing with a controller is worse in almost all situations except when you're flying in my opinion.

[Curls]

[QUOTE=Skipcast;52366036]I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with you on this one. Playing with a controller is worse in almost all situations except when you're flying in my opinion.[/QUOTE]

Playing with a wheel or controller allows for a pretty objectively superior level of control in cars, since you can give very subtle turns that let you dodge cars at high speeds and adjust throttle properly without annoying taps.

on the other hand you massively reduce your ability to aim at targets and actually hit them

unless you're using a steam controller or wheel or stick / mouse set up you just can't get it all with one control method.

[editline]17;06;16-3;56;29 AM[/editline]

[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;52366009]It's the main reason to buy GTA on PC over a console though. The game plays better with a controller anyway and it doesn't look that much better graphically unless you install an ENB or high res texture pack, the main thing you're getting out of PC is mods.[/QUOTE]

PC's support controllers almost universally regardless, so I mean, there should be no reason to get it on consoles outside of having that system as the main system you use

hell you get far better controller options, like wheels are decent, flight sticks, pedels, DS4/pro nintendo/xbone/snes/everything else

[SteakStyes]

I'm surprised this just hit me, but while it was joked about in the early days of GTA:O it seems they really did take a few cues from how Korean MMOs are run. Korean MMOs are incredibly slow to catch actual harmful individual, but apparently you get banned because you were somehow supposed to know that doodad in a player shop was provided by a hacker/botter/etc(aka you got punished as an accomplice even though you unwittingly received contraband) . They also tend to punish people for things like model replacements, alternate UI's, aka harmless mods, as severely as they would allegedly punish an actual hacker.

All that is in addition to updates that might as well be part of a cash shop.

[Breadman]

[QUOTE=Eric95;52366000]that aspect wasn't part of the product or a selling point to begin with[/QUOTE]

It's not like modding is a selling point to play on PC or something.

[Deleted1912]

People are coming up with defences by saying that this could harm GTA:O even further. I am 100% sure that most of the hacking tools aren't from OpenIV.

Funny to think that there are people comparing modding to hacking for GTA:O. The steam forum clearly shows that.

[SirJon]

Jesus their overallsteam score dropped to 74%

Which is like really subpar in video game scores :v:

[Cloak_Raider]

[QUOTE=timothy80;52364489]Someone got ahold of the C&D, apprantly this was listed[/QUOTE]

not sure how it is in the US, but in the UK, even if you agree to terms and conditions with stipulations, you cannot sign away statutory consumer rights because they're just that

though not sure how they interact with EULA etc

[Secrios]

I just found out today. I better go and back up all the sound effects before they force uninstall openiv.

[Jelman]

[QUOTE=Secrios;52366455]I just found out today. I better go and back up all the sound effects before they force uninstall openiv.[/QUOTE]

Block openiv in ur firewall and it'll still work.

[DrPavlov]

[QUOTE=Noi;52366480]This letter is bullshit. They didn't even bother to bring this to russian court.[/QUOTE]

With our courts and their kind of money, I suspect T2 would've easily been able to buy a speedy trial.

[Tuskin]

[QUOTE=Jelman;52366553]Block openiv in ur firewall and it'll still work.[/QUOTE]

Well, it will work until they change the encryption on the GTA files

[Bald & Beautiful]

[QUOTE=Eric95;52364452]People adding bad reviews out of spite for stuff like this is incredibly childish[/QUOTE]

i know right? the steam review system doesn't even show a picture of their outfit, how am i supposed to know if the reviewer is good looking enough to be tasteful?????

[It's crispy]

[QUOTE=Taepodong-2;52366009]It's the main reason to buy GTA on PC over a console though. The game plays better with a controller anyway and it doesn't look that much better graphically unless you install an ENB or high res texture pack, the main thing you're getting out of PC is mods.[/QUOTE]

Well it's not an advertised selling point so it shouldn't factor into reviews
I like moddable games and I support modding but if a developer wants to disallow modding for their own product then that's totally fine

[Curls]

[QUOTE=Eric95;52367073]if a developer wants to disallow modding for their own product then that's totally fine[/QUOTE]

The devs themselves literally commented support for this (OpenIV that is) so idk what you're saying here because this is the publisher scumbagging, not the devs

its so clear that you're giving an opinion without even knowing anything about what is happening at all

[editline]16th June 2017[/editline]

if a dev doesn't build a game with any mod support ok cool

but its clear scumbagging when the publisher interferes 10 years late and quite effectively fucks everyone over for a [U]legal[/U] mod

[It's crispy]

[QUOTE=J!NX;52367078]The devs themselves literally commented support for this (OpenIV that is) so idk what you're saying here because this is the publisher scumbagging, not the devs[/QUOTE]

Well I'll admit I haven't looked into the complete context in terms of individual devs personal opinions but even if it's completely on the publishers I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with it

Especially since the game wasn't built with mod support in the first place

All I'm saying is reviews based on things that aren't advertised selling points in the first place and actually break the tos shouldn't have the power to affect things like scores on the official store page

[Neroxen]

[QUOTE=Eric95;52367073]Well it's not an advertised selling point so it shouldn't factor into reviews
I like moddable games and I support modding but if a developer wants to disallow modding for their own product then that's totally fine[/QUOTE]

It would be fine if it was like that from the start. But it wasn't. At no real point did Take Two or Rockstar decide to do this to any other tools, utilities or mods for GTAV since 2015. Other than multiple Multiplayer Alternative mods to GTA:O but Take Two was pretty quick on those, because they've got to have that sweet micro transaction money from their hacker ridden vanilla multiplayer.

Which makes me even more surprised that they decided to try and shutdown OpenIV (Mostly used to flesh out singleplayer) instead of FiveM, which IS a currently thriving multiplayer alternative to GTA:O.

[Curls]

[QUOTE=Eric95;52367121]Well I'll admit I haven't looked into the complete context in terms of individual devs personal opinions but even if it's completely on the publishers I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with it

Especially since the game wasn't built with mod support in the first place

All I'm saying is reviews based on things that aren't advertised selling points in the first place and actually break the tos shouldn't be a thing[/QUOTE]

that's a fair enough point to come in with

but at the same time its all take two cares about. bad reviews effect sales and that's the only way we can actually get them to listen. They are, after all, in the wrong for using a C&D of all things for a legal modification of the game.

They don't give a shit about rockstar, or anyone. They just want to dip their fingers into the middle of the cake and lick their fingers infront of everyone.

[Flak]

[QUOTE=Neroxen;52367125]It would be fine if it was like that from the start. But it wasn't. At no real point did Take Two or Rockstar decide to do this to any other tools, utilities or mods for GTAV since 2015. Other than multiple Multiplayer Alternative mods to GTA:O but Take Two was pretty quick on those, because they've got to have that sweet micro transaction money from their hacker ridden vanilla multiplayer.

Which makes me even more surprised that they decided to try and shutdown OpenIV (Mostly used to flesh out singleplayer) instead of FiveM, which IS a currently thriving multiplayer alternative to GTA:O.[/QUOTE]

They shut FiveM down once, but it came back.

[Skipcast]

[QUOTE=FlakTheMighty;52367310]They shut FiveM down once, but it came back.[/QUOTE]

It only came back because it's open source and a new group of developers continued work on it. The original developers went onto jc3mp. :v:

[EIREXE]

[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52364562]If the tools are breaking encrypted files (DRM) to look inside, it could potentially be argued that it's DMCA violation as well, making it flat-out illegal.[/QUOTE]

Only in the US

[editline]16th June 2017[/editline]

[QUOTE=Skipcast;52368260]It only came back because it's open source and a new group of developers continued work on it. The original developers went onto jc3mp. :v:[/QUOTE]

Isn't FiveM closed source now? :V

Also, I hope we get an OpenIV replacement soon, with source code this time for fucks sake.

[TheNickle]

[QUOTE=Eric95;52367073]Well it's not an advertised selling point so it shouldn't factor into reviews
I like moddable games and I support modding but if a developer wants to disallow modding for their own product then that's totally fine[/QUOTE]

Okay. What if I told you it's alright for people to write negative reviews on GTAV because OpenIV has been apart of the modding scene for a very long time and Take Two's C&D is a load of crap because they think it'll affect their precious online component when OpenIV isn't meant for that. We're talking about hundreds of modders being told they can't mod anymore, even though modding has always been apart of GTA on PC for years and even supported by Rockstar. No, I don't think it's fine or right, I think it's absolute bullshit.

[Govna]

[QUOTE=Eric95;52367073]Well it's not an advertised selling point so it shouldn't factor into reviews
I like moddable games and I support modding but if a developer wants to disallow modding for their own product then that's totally fine[/QUOTE]

It's [i]always[/i] a selling point. You can have a good game by itself, but the modding community always comes in and finds a way to make things even better. And the best part is that they do it for free instead of nickle-and-diming you to a ridiculous extent.

Pretty fucking stupid for T2 to suddenly say that mods aren't supported anymore, especially given how much the modding community has done for V. Most of the YouTubers, Twitch streamers, etc. that do LPs of it are using mods.

I also hate it when companies stifle creativity like this, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that sentiment.

[Kigen]

[QUOTE=Tuskin;52364574]
[editline]15th June 2017[/editline]

[url]http://www.pcgamer.com/heres-rockstars-statement-about-take-two-shutting-down-gtas-openiv-modding-tool/?utm_content=buffer227bc&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=buffer-pcgamertw[/url][/QUOTE]

OpenIV response:
[url]http://gtaforums.com/topic/889348-take-two-vs-modding/page-61#entry1069656426[/url]

[quote="GooD-NTS"]Here is my comment on [url=http://www.pcgamer.com/heres-rockstars-statement-about-take-two-shutting-down-gtas-openiv-modding-tool/]this Rockstar's statement[/url]:
OpenIV, Liberty City in GTA V and all other mods/projects from my team and me are only specific for Single player. Rockstar must be well aware about the fact that you cannot access GTA Online while you have installed any OpenIV mod:

[t]http://cloud.ntscorp.ru/i/2017.06/01.jpeg[/t]

The statement "Unfortunately OpenIV enables recent malicious mods that allow harassment of players and interfere with the GTA Online experience for everybody", is just wrong and they know it. OpenIV does not allows or supports any kind of GTA Online mods. We always supported Rockstar in their right to protect GTA Online from hacks and cheats. But, Take-Two's C&D was specific for out Singleplayer mods and have no mentions about GTA Online.[/quote]

[😹 WHO DID THIS]

GTA V just hit "Overwhelmingly Negative" on Steam.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/iJpr8YS.jpg[/img]

[Da Space Core]

[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;52369110]GTA V just hit "Overwhelmingly Negative" on Steam.

[img]http://i.imgur.com/iJpr8YS.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]

keep them coming.

I believe steam ratings affect if a game is recommended to other people.

with it being this low, less people will see and want to buy the game, and will make enough of a dent that take two must at least respond to this.

whether they will reverse this policy is something I cant guess

[Govna]

[QUOTE=da space core;52369328]keep them coming.

I believe steam ratings affect if a game is recommended to other people.

with it being this low, less people will see and want to buy the game, and will make enough of a dent that take two must at least respond to this.

whether they will reverse this policy is something I cant guess[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure if it will cause them to reverse their policy, but it's worth a shot. We won't know if we don't try. That's what we should be aiming for in the end.

I think a more direct method would be to spam them with email messages, phone calls, letters, etc. saying that we-- the community-- want them to cease their bullshit against OpenIV's team at once, allow them to resume their work freely, and to not be so hostile towards the modding community in the future. I wish streamers and LPrs would be willing to mobilize their followers, which would total hundreds of thousands of people, and get them to participate in this. At least that avalanche of negative Steam reviews is impressive.

[Fireboyd78]

[QUOTE=Govna;52369439]I think a more direct method would be to spam them with email messages, phone calls, letters, etc. [b]saying that we-- the community-- want them to cease their bullshit against OpenIV's team at once[/b], allow them to resume their work freely, and to not be so hostile towards the modding community in the future.[/QUOTE]

Fight fire with fire, you say?

[i]We, the community, hereby demand that Take-Two cease & desist their bullshit tactics of outright banning mods from their games...[/i]

Oh I wish it worked that way. But you know what will cause them to let up? Strauss Zelnick shitting his pants Monday morning, wondering how the fuck their stocks took a nosedive and why GTA 5 is suddenly one of the worst rated games on Steam. It'll be like a goddamn train just ran straight through the Take-Two offices, leaving nothing but absolute chaos in its path.

When was the last time a company did damage control on the weekend? Boy, are they in for a surprise!

[OmniConsUme]

[QUOTE=Kigen;52369073]OpenIV response:
[url]http://gtaforums.com/topic/889348-take-two-vs-modding/page-61#entry1069656426[/url][/QUOTE]

This whole thing seriously sounds like Rockstar Didn't know about the C&D when it sent out, and Take Two only told them to make an excuse because Corporate didn't like the mods, Conspiracy theorist in me is they are going to put in more microtransactions (if they are any) in single-player.

[Govna]

[QUOTE=CarLuver69;52369590]Fight fire with fire, you say?

[i]We, the community, hereby demand that Take-Two cease & desist their bullshit tactics of outright banning mods from their games...[/i]

Oh I wish it worked that way. But you know what will cause them to let up? Strauss Zelnick shitting his pants Monday morning, wondering how the fuck their stocks took a nosedive and why GTA 5 is suddenly one of the worst rated games on Steam. It'll be like a goddamn train just ran straight through the Take-Two offices, leaving nothing but absolute chaos in its path.

When was the last time a company did damage control on the weekend? Boy, are they in for a surprise![/QUOTE]

No disagreement here. I do think we should bombard them with letters, phone calls, emails, etc. too just so we make it [i]abundantly[/i] clear how we feel and what we want. The more pressure is put on them from many different angles, the better. The more people participate, the greater the chances of success.

Like, I honestly can't explain how much it irritates me when companies stifle creativity like this. V's modding community has done some amazing things (things the game was never even originally intended to do), and I'd love to see them be able to continue without this sort of nonsense getting in the way. I just found out the other day for example that somebody modded in [url=https://www.gta5-mods.com/vehicles/rms-titanic-hq-add-on]Kyle Hudak's Virtual Sailor model of the Titanic-- complete with interior[/url]. That's awesome.

Modding is an art, and it should be appreciated.