VW says its Tesla Model 3-fighter will be $7,000 to $8,000 cheaper - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52476961]Id have to get into a Tesla to try it for myself before I can say anything for certain. I live in North Dakota, so its tough to get a Tesla up here. Ironically, the last time I checked anyway, the only Tesla charging stations in the state are in Williston, which is the center of ND's oil industry[/QUOTE] The closest showroom is in Minneapolis.

[QUOTE=Morgen;52472431]Top left of the centre screen: [t]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_bsGZTftAkc/maxresdefault.jpg[/t] Though nothing official until the 28th.[/QUOTE] What an ugly, inefficient use of space.

I wonder if the build quality will be better aswell. Tesla build quality isn't great. Then again it's VAG so it'll probably be just as mediocre lol

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;52477006]What an ugly, inefficient use of space.[/QUOTE] You call it a waste of space, but there is a reason for it, the screen is in the middle instead of having a sepearate instruments screen like in the model s to save costs.

[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;52475282]What are pre-owned cars.[/QUOTE] Is that what we're talking about, pre-owned cars? Because I don't think anyone gives a shit about those. They're pre-owned so they're cheaper, that's the point. $35k isn't the price of a used Model 3, no one cares about the price after depreciation because it's priced at whatever the owner values it at. Forgive me for thinking it's ridiculous to expect a car company to (somehow?) set an MSRP for a USED vehicle, something that they'd reap almost zero benefits from in the first place.

[QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;52478785]Is that what we're talking about, pre-owned cars? Because I don't think anyone gives a shit about those. They're pre-owned so they're cheaper, that's the point. $35k isn't the price of a used Model 3, no one cares about the price after depreciation because it's priced at whatever the owner values it at. Forgive me for thinking it's ridiculous to expect a car company to (somehow?) set an MSRP for a USED vehicle, something that they'd reap almost zero benefits from in the first place.[/QUOTE] Now you are just moving the goalposts, nowhere in your original post did you ever specify MSRP. You did generalize that there are NO desirable midsize sedans with decent interior available for less than 20k, which is flat out wrong. Also "no one gives a shit about pre-owned cars" is hilariously shortsighted and frankly, snobby as fuck. Do you really think half of the population ever pays full price for a brand new commuter? Going pre-owned is the far better option in most cases. [quote]No desirable midsize sedan for under 20k[/quote] [b]$15,299[/b] [img]https://static.cargurus.com/images/forsale/2017/06/16/21/22/2015_toyota_camry-pic-6216080167437798599-1024x768.jpeg[/img] [url]https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?sourceContext=&formSourceTag=112&newSearchFromOverviewPage=true&inventorySearchWidgetType=AUTO&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity=t59792&entitySelectingHelper.selectedEntity2=&zip=90002&distance=50000&searchChanged=true&trimNames=XSE&modelChanged=false&filtersModified=true&sortType=PRICE&sortDirection=ASC#listing=177789916[/url] Give it a few years and you could find a Tesla Model 3 for less than that Camry. Hell, early Tesla Model S cars are already creeping below the 40k price range. [editline]ff[/editline] [b]$38,977[/b] [img]https://images.autotrader.com/hn/c/fb4aad4659bc4cbb9a3c6a5a156d3613.jpg[/img] [url]https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=456824458&zip=80210&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D80210%26sellerTypes%3Dd%252Cp%26startYear%3D1981%26sortBy%3DderivedpriceASC%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26endYear%3D2018%26makeCodeList%3DTESLA%26searchRadius%3D0&sellerTypes=d%2Cp&startYear=1981&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2018&makeCodeList=TESLA&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=TESLA&modelCode1=TESMODS[/url]

When people talk about car prices it should be obvious people are talking about the new price.

[QUOTE=Morgen;52478994]When people talk about car prices it should be obvious people are talking about the new price.[/QUOTE] So say MSRP then?

[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;52479005]So say MSRP then?[/QUOTE] It's a bit redundant in a thread about new car prices.

[QUOTE=GhillieBacca;52479005]So say MSRP then?[/QUOTE] I shouldn't have to specify MSRP when that's already the topic of conversation The used car market is its own thing, automakers have a significantly higher vested interest in the sales of NEW cars because they immediately profit directly from them. No one (read: shareholders) cares about sales volume per quarter for cars exchanging hands between tertiary owners because at that point the automaker isn't even involved anymore.

[QUOTE=Morgen;52470477]Important to note that if it's Golf sized it would be significantly smaller than the 3.[/QUOTE] could be the jetta or the passat though, both in hatchback form look remarkably like a golf from behind this is kind of the thing that pisses me off about major car makers today though, they all seemingly have good electric cars behind closed doors but won't release them without some major pressure because why change from ICE

[QUOTE=OvB;52476986]The closest showroom is in Minneapolis.[/QUOTE] Yea but its a bitch trying to get the car registered here. I've run into a guy several times over the past year who owns a Tesla, and he hasn't been able to get plates for it yet. I'm gonna wait it out until the feds and local governments figure out how to handle EVs and autonomous vehicles

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52480167]Yea but its a bitch trying to get the car registered here. I've run into a guy several times over the past year who owns a Tesla, and he hasn't been able to get plates for it yet. I'm gonna wait it out until the feds and local governments figure out how to handle EVs and autonomous vehicles[/QUOTE] I don't understand why an EV would be particularly difficult to register?

[QUOTE=Morgen;52480649]I don't understand why an EV would be particularly difficult to register?[/QUOTE] I couldn't tell you, but from having dealt with the NDDOT and NDDMV before, it's no surprise. They denied plates for my work truck for a couple months because there was too many addresses listed under my company name at the DMV.

I always wondered why north Dakota didn't have any superchargers: [QUOTE]Type: Laws and Regulations Jurisdiction: ND A vehicle weighing 6,000 pounds or less that is primarily powered by a source other than a combustion engine may be considered an experimental vehicle. A driver may not operate an experimental vehicle unless it is registered as such with the North Dakota Department of Transportation. An experimental vehicle must be equipped with certain safety features and may not operate on a state highway unless it is accompanied by a chase vehicle following at a safe driving distance. Additional requirements and restrictions apply. (Reference North Dakota Century Code 39-10.3)[/QUOTE] Not sure if that's still in effect but :v:

What you don't really get is that while in America sedans are what most people buy (I guess), here in central Europe it's not the case. I'd say about 75-80% of the cars you see on the road on an average day are Hatchbacks (mostly sub 20k€ ones), 10% are Sedans, 5% SUVs and 5% trucks... At least in France, Germany, Italy and Spain. So yea until there's a nice electric car that costs under 20k, I don't see this electrical revolution happening.

[QUOTE=Morgen;52481329]I always wondered why north Dakota didn't have any superchargers: Not sure if that's still in effect but :v:[/QUOTE] It's pretty goofy up here with old fashioned laws like that. Those exist for a reason, so I'm sure some farmer tried to power his grain truck with a jet engine and failed horribly at some point in time. North Dakota really wanted Tesla to do winter testing up here, autonomous and non autonomous. NDSU even had students designing software to improve the security for Tesla's :v:. It'd be interesting to see how well EV's perform up here with the brutal cold. Batteries tend not to last too long in 40 below weather.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52481671]It's pretty goofy up here with old fashioned laws like that. Those exist for a reason, so I'm sure some farmer tried to power his grain truck with a jet engine and failed horribly at some point in time. North Dakota really wanted Tesla to do winter testing up here, autonomous and non autonomous. NDSU even had students designing software to improve the security for Tesla's :v:. It'd be interesting to see how well EV's perform up here with the brutal cold. Batteries tend not to last too long in 40 below weather.[/QUOTE] EVs that have battery heaters work okay. They work fine in Norway, and Russia. Of course you lose range though.

[QUOTE=Morgen;52481712]EVs that have battery heaters work okay. They work fine in Norway, and Russia. Of course you lose range though.[/QUOTE] Thats kind of the Issue in ND. Outside of the major cities it's about 100 miles between towns. EV's will probably be a more urban thing for the time being.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52481801]Thats kind of the Issue in ND. Outside of the major cities it's about 100 miles between towns. EV's will probably be a more urban thing for the time being.[/QUOTE] If you only had to go 100 miles that would still be pretty easy. We are talking maybe 20% range loss. You can minimise range loss by preheating cabin and battery while plugged in as well.

[QUOTE=Leo Leonardo;52473730]A no options A4 still uses gas, has less storage space, is more expensive to maintain, and isn't sold with a suite of range topping autonomous driving capabilities Also what's with everyone asking for desirable cars to be sold for under $20k? I can't think of almost any midsize sedan available for that sort of price, especially ones with a decent interior, and especially especially ones that are electric and semi-autonomous. I'd love a car like that to exist but I just don't see that as being that possible.[/QUOTE] Don't you have to pay to use teslas superchargers too? I imagine it's leagues cheaper than gas, still, though. [QUOTE=maxolina;52470789]I'm still not sure about the value proposition of a no-options model 3.. I think it's gonna be quite rudimentary, possibly not "feel worth" 35k... I love the fact that it's electric, but for that price you can get a no options Audi A4, which is undoubtedly "more car" for the money. I have a fear that the model 3 is gonna end up still being seen almost as a luxury car, or as a second car for those who can afford more than one. EDIT: I really want an electric car, but as long as you are paying a hefty premium just for it being electric, I don't see many people buying one. Once they get below 20k, while retaining the interior quality of conventional cars, then there will be a boom in popularity.[/QUOTE] Of course there's a hefty premium on buying electric right now, and of course buying a base A4 is gonna be a more luxurious ride. It's still a new industry. These things will be ironed out. I'm sure by 1900 when there was an automotive industry being born, people said "Bah! For that money, I could have a stagecoach with leather suspension, foot warmers, 2 stallions to pull it, and enough feed for a year!" You're saying that like a car that costs $20k brand new is gonna have a high level of interior quality in the first place, anyway lol. Have you ever been inside a brand new base-trim commuter car? They're nice, but only because they're brand new. I'm sure in 2009 the interior of my Honda Civic was ~minimalistic and new age~ but now its just ~hideous cheap plastic~