The Chinese Room Fires Almost Entire Staff- "We're done with doing walking sims and story stuff" - Sensationalist Headlines

I loved Dear Esther. I went through it a bunch of times.

The Stanley Parable is great because it offers that choose-your-own-path style of book but in an entirely new and interesting way. Also because the writing is legitimately good and funny. As far as I can tell, Chinese Room's games never really had any interaction which makes them glorified visual novels imo. [QUOTE=X-tra;52722489]Going for a hike is healthier than playing any video game, not just walking simulators.[/QUOTE] Good job missing his point entirely.

[QUOTE=Keychain;52722138]Idk why people are rating you funny, as if Chinese Room have done anything inherently bad.[/QUOTE] because its a thing on facepunch to treat people who like games that are graced with the "not real games" banner like an annoying insufferable jackass

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;52722499]The Stanley Parable is great because it offers that choose-your-own-path style of book but in an entirely new and interesting way. Also because [B]the writing is legitimately good and funny[/B]. As far as I can tell, Chinese Room's games never really had any interaction which makes them glorified visual novels imo.[/QUOTE] I feel that's what people actually dislike about chinese room games, but hide behind dumb semantical arguments instead of just saying they hate their serious and contemplative tone. I mean Stanley Parable had some choices and interactions but thoses choices are basicely walking around too. But it had a snarky meta ironic tone, so that makes it ok (i love the game and got all the endings ok) The chinese room games take themselves very seriously, so if it doesn't work for some people it means it's arrogant, when all they did is try to make a genuine story they were interested to tell. And for their 3 main games, it worked very well for me because I appreciate the artistic approach they take. Thoses games never pretended to be anything else than they are, just like visual novels don't pretend to be mass effect 2. And all of theses games have their place in the industry.

[QUOTE=Loth;52722357]But if you put them together in a game engine, in a cohesive universe, and dare calling that a game, it's not ok and some people treat that as an insult. It truely feels like the genre has a negative stigma around it that's really weird to me.[/QUOTE] Game has a literal meaning that should hold value if we want to meaningfully critique games. It's not stigma, it's calling it as it is. [QUOTE=Loth;52722357]Stuff like dating sims or graphic novels on steam are as limited and niche and never get the same kind of criticism, and aren't as hard to make.[/QUOTE] Sims and visual novels are definitively games because they offer actual interaction with game systems, and why I'd also consider The Stanley Parable as a "real game" but not Dear Esther. Really, you can critique purely non-interactive things like Dear Esther separately from games if you like, but you'll be hard pressed to not put it somewhere between a game and a film and draw criticisms from those perspectives. It's a very limited "medium" though considering its only quality is being a non-interactive linear narrative told at the pace of a user. This is why I think EGR was terrible. Dear Esther did the best job of exploring that space of media because it kept it short and sweet. Anything more is redundant, and drawing out that experience only resulted in a sprawling town of actual filler material.

[QUOTE=Marphy Black;52722040]Are you one of those weirdos trying to proffer the term "Atmospheric Exploration"? The only atmosphere being explored here is how long I have to hold the W key until the next scripted event![/QUOTE] Just when I thought you couldn't get more pretentious lol.

[QUOTE=megafat;52722056]Considering that with some of these "walking simulators", i can literally get 100% of the experience by watching it on Youtube. If you wanted to give me a story with pretty visuals, give me an experimental film. I don't mind something getting a bit experimental as long as there is something it do, like let me explore multiple choices, or a few minor puzzles or something.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I don't think a story focused game needs to have what would generally be considered "gameplay" necessarily, but I'd prefer if it had [i]something[/i] interesting going on. I am totally on board with say, a story focused game that really ramps up the story's interactivity, letting you go all kinds of different routes through the game. Really let you Choose Your Own Adventure.

I'm fine with Dear Esther and other non-games like it, people genuinely enjoy them and that's awesome and as long as they're clearly disclosed as having none to minimal gameplay then I don't have a problem with them existing on Steam or what have you. Besides, it's not like chinese room are practicing shitty anti-consumer business practices, so I really don't think they deserve to be hated so much.

Walking simulators are like DVD Extras, that's what they feel like.

[QUOTE=Marphy Black;52722040]Are you one of those weirdos trying to proffer the term "Atmospheric Exploration"? The only atmosphere being explored here is how long I have to hold the W key until the next scripted event![/QUOTE] Movies aren't exactly interactive either. I've never played any of the games discussed here, but I think the problem might be that you're thinking of them as "games." It sounds like they're basically just movies that you move through.

[QUOTE=Marphy Black;52722040]Are you one of those weirdos trying to proffer the term "Atmospheric Exploration"? The only atmosphere being explored here is how long I have to hold the W key until the next scripted event![/QUOTE] so every first person shooter ever gotcha

I enjoyed Dear Esther on a visual level but there's only so many games like that I can play. I passed on A Machine for Pigs and other games like The Vanishing of Ethan Carter.

[QUOTE=Mud;52722644]so every first person shooter ever gotcha[/QUOTE] I don't remember DOOM 1&2 being like that

[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;52722670]I don't remember DOOM 1&2 being like that[/QUOTE] Hold W and click your mouse a bunch until you get the the next map. It's really easy to make any game sound simple and dumb.

[QUOTE=SpartanXC9;52722670]I don't remember DOOM 1&2 being like that[/QUOTE] first person shooters by nature are hold w to get to next scripted horde of bad guys to spawn and fight you simulators [editline]27th September 2017[/editline] literally every game is move forward for x to happen because games by nature require you to keep your momentum going to progress. what im saying is its a stupid fucking argument

The semantic argument has literally no value. Movies are also sold on steam, and software. Whats even the big deal, I don't get it. There's clicker games where you only press one button too, and nobody gets mad over it. The only thing that makes dear ester or rapture different is the tone of the writing and the fact it takes itself seriously, and people loose their mind over the fact people want to make that kind of art. People buy sculptures and 2d prints of art every day. Why does the platfrom it's sold on matter. Just dont fkin buy them and let us enjoy it.

[QUOTE=UnidentifiedFlyingTard;52722684]Hold W and click your mouse a bunch until you get the the next map. It's really easy to make any game sound simple and dumb.[/QUOTE] Seeing how you play all these games, make these games sound simple and dumb in that context you described. I'm curious. [img]https://i.imgur.com/7hVgKX2.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52722636]Movies aren't exactly interactive either. I've never played any of the games discussed here, but I think the problem might be that you're thinking of them as "games." It sounds like they're basically just movies that you move through.[/QUOTE] The problem is that they don't advertise themselves as that. The reason Chinese Room games are made fun of as pretentious is because they sell them as games when they barely hit that mark, at least in the traditional sense. If they advertised them as 'visual novels' instead I think they'd be better received. [QUOTE=Mud;52722644]so every first person shooter ever gotcha[/QUOTE] In this case, you're the one dumbing down a genre. Games like Dear Esther are actually just that, outside of some reading. He isn't oversimplifying anything - so that's not even a relevant comparison.

[QUOTE=Peon Greenjoy;52722720]Seeing how you play all these games, make these games sound simple and dumb in that context you described. I'm curious. [img]https://i.imgur.com/7hVgKX2.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] That's not even hard lol. More around and click stuff can describe pretty much every game ever.

[QUOTE=Mud;52722688]literally every game is move forward for x to happen because games by nature require you to keep your momentum going to progress.[/QUOTE] If you hold S the entire time instead, perhaps the games could be viewed as deep introspective journeys in which your path forward is forever unseen and unknown but you can at least reflect on where you've been. After all, how can we truly [i]know[/i] where we're going if we don't even understand from where we've come?

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;52722722]In this case, you're the one dumbing down a genre. Games like Dear Esther are actually just that, outside of some reading. He isn't oversimplifying anything - so that's not even a relevant comparison.[/QUOTE] So a game is only a game if it is complex. So I suppose we rule out pong and tetris as games [editline]27th September 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Marphy Black;52722730]If you hold S the entire time instead, perhaps the games could be viewed as deep introspective journeys in which your path forward is forever unseen and unknown but you can at least reflect on where you've been. After all, how can we truly [i]know[/i] where we're going if we don't even understand from where we've come?[/QUOTE] are you ok

[QUOTE=Peon Greenjoy;52722720]Seeing how you play all these games, make these games sound simple and dumb in that context [/QUOTE] Congratulations, you manage to miss the point entirely, make no point of your own, be low key stalky and passive aggressive, in a single post. [QUOTE=Marphy Black;52722730]If you hold S the entire time instead, perhaps the games could be viewed as deep introspective journeys in which your path forward is forever unseen and unknown but you can at least reflect on where you've been. After all, how can we truly [i]know[/i] where we're going if we don't even understand from where we've come?[/QUOTE] For some reason google won't let me translate this from "Alex Jones" to "english"

[QUOTE=Loth;52722739]Congratulations, you manage to miss the point entirely, make no point of your own, be low key stalky and passive aggressive, in a single post.[/QUOTE] How is it being a stalky though? I literally clicked his steam icon under his avatar to see what games he plays? It's public, available information.

[QUOTE=Peon Greenjoy;52722720]Seeing how you play all these games, make these games sound simple and dumb in that context you described. I'm curious. [img]https://i.imgur.com/7hVgKX2.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] You had to to my steam profile just to go "gotcha!" Amazing.

[QUOTE=Peon Greenjoy;52722748]How is it being a stalky though? I literally clicked his steam icon under his avatar to see what games he plays? It's public, available information.[/QUOTE] Looking through people's personnal pages to find something to discard their opinion when you don't have any arguments to counter them is really weak.

[QUOTE=Loth;52722759]Looking through people's personnal pages to find something to discard their opinion when you don't have any arguments to counter them is really weak.[/QUOTE] He didn't even show the best parts of my profile :frown:

[QUOTE=Peon Greenjoy;52722720]Seeing how you play all these games, make these games sound simple and dumb in that context you described. I'm curious. [img]https://i.imgur.com/7hVgKX2.jpg[/img][/QUOTE] Those are all games where you just walk and shoot guys. If your response to me saying that is "that's fucking stupid to say", you're right. Oversimplifying things to fit your narrative IS stupid.

[QUOTE=Loth;52722759]Looking through people's personnal pages to find something to discard their opinion when you don't have any arguments to counter them is really weak.[/QUOTE] You know, if he wanted it to be private he'd have changed his settings to private, but his profile is public and available to everyone, so your point is coming across as plainly stupid. [editline]27th September 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Skyward;52722764]Those are all games where you just walk and shoot guys. If your response to me saying that is "that's fucking stupid to say", you're right.[/QUOTE] Yeah man, games where you totally walk and press one button and shoot, these games totally don't require you to think actively, make decisions, and online shooters don't require you to improve.

The CHinese Room's games have pretty much all been pretentious drivel. Not because they're walking simulators, I quite enjoyed The Stanley Parable and Ether One, but because they have very shallow plots with little to no connection to the game world. More specifically, in Dear Esther they use many things drawn on the world, such as diagrams, bible verses, and mathematical symbols. None of these have any connection to the story of the game, they are just there to make you think the game is clever, when it really isn't. It is pretentious in the literal meaning, it is pretending to be smarter than it is. Which is a shame because the island itself is quite nice to look at, and the later sequences when things get weird [sp]like when you're walking on the M5 under water[/sp] are well done. Personally I have found the story to each of their games to be very dry and boring. They don't seem interested in creating an interwoven narrative, or a world with interesting characters. They just vomit expository dialogue at you and expect you to be impressed because you're walking around in an area with the bloom turned up.

[QUOTE=Janus Vesta;52722778]The CHinese Room's games have pretty much all been pretentious drivel. Not because they're walking simulators, I quite enjoyed The Stanley Parable and Ether One, but because they have very shallow plots with little to no connection to the game world. More specifically, in Dear Esther they use many things drawn on the world, such as diagrams, bible verses, and mathematical symbols. None of these have any connection to the story of the game, they are just there to make you think the game is clever, when it really isn't. It is pretentious in the literal meaning, it is pretending to be smarter than it is. Which is a shame because the island itself is quite nice to look at, and the later sequences when things get weird [sp]like when you're walking on the M5 under water[/sp] are well done. Personally I have found the story to each of their games to be very dry and boring. They don't seem interested in creating an interwoven narrative, or a world with interesting characters. They just vomit expository dialogue at you and expect you to be impressed because you're walking around in an area with the bloom turned up.[/QUOTE] Finally someone not screeching "NOT GAME" and actually addressing the flaws of their games. Tbh It's clear dear ester aged the least well. I really like the feeling around some areas like the shepperd's house and the beach. But I'd rather have another playthrough of EGTR today, because their ideas were way more developped with that game. And tbh even though I love CR stuff id recommend more The Vanishing of Ethan Carter and What remains of Edith Finch. They took the ideas and expanded on them. Ether one is really nice too, havent beaten it yet but the premice is cool.