The Chinese Room Fires Almost Entire Staff- "We're done with doing walking sims and story stuff" - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;52722636]Movies aren't exactly interactive either. I've never played any of the games discussed here, but I think the problem might be that you're thinking of them as "games." It sounds like they're basically just movies that you move through.[/QUOTE] It's more than that. It took some time, but the industry and the players are realizing that "walking simulators" don't need to have no gameplay besides walking, which earned them this nickname. Games like The Stanley Parable, The Witness, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter and INFRA take a step in the right direction by keeping the aesthetic and atmospheric appeal of walking sims but also providing more than a story to walk around in. I've enjoyed Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, but only because it was gorgeous and relaxing. I didn't care for the story, and I did think it was pretentious sometimes.

[QUOTE=Loadingue;52722861]It's more than that. It took some time, but the industry and the players are realizing that "walking simulators" don't need to have no gameplay besides walking, which earned them this nickname. Games like The Stanley Parable, The Witness, The Vanishing of Ethan Carter and INFRA take a step in the right direction by keeping the aesthetic and atmospheric appeal of walking sims but also providing more than a story to walk around in. I've enjoyed Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, but only because it was gorgeous and relaxing. I didn't care for the story, and I did think it was pretentious sometimes.[/QUOTE] These are closer to puzzle\adventure games.

[QUOTE=Peon Greenjoy;52722869]These are closer to puzzle\adventure games.[/QUOTE] Walking simulators are a sub-category of puzzle and adventure games.

[QUOTE=Loth;52722823]Finally someone not screeching "NOT GAME" and actually addressing the flaws of their games.[/QUOTE] Yeah thanks for ignoring my posts discussing why a distinction is important. [editline]27th September 2017[/editline] Also literally all of my criticism for why their works are incredibly flawed when treated as games

[QUOTE=DOG-GY;52722890]Yeah thanks for ignoring my posts discussing why a distinction is important.[/QUOTE] Because it isn't important. It's a semantic argument that means nothing when it comes to the actual value of the game, and i'm completely sick of people who don't care for CR's games to use it as way to shit all over their stuff without actually criticising what's in it. Again who cares what it's named, what matters ls if it's good or not. If what you call it changes its value, then you care too much about semantics.

[QUOTE=Loth;52722915]Because it isn't important. It's a semantic argument that means nothing when it comes to the actual value of the game, and i'm completely sick of people who don't care for CR's games to use it as way to shit all over their stuff without actually criticising what's in it. Again who cares what it's named, what matters ls if it's good or not.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=DOG-GY;52722328]Compare EGR with something like The Witness which incorporates its environmental and recorded storytelling into actual multilayered gameplay. The latter is way superior since your actions give greater meaning to the information being relayed to you. It functions better as an interactive experience than literally just *walk here for story*. This is also why The Stanley Parable and The Beginner's Guide are superior experiences despite being very similar to EGR. They offer some limited feedback, interaction, and branching choice in ways that compliment the narrative slowly being formed. For some reason The Chinese Room had come to the wrong conclusion that compelling interactive works are ones that remove as much interaction as physically possible. I'm glad they finally realized that's super boring.[/QUOTE] You can't meaningfully apply the word "game" and then say it means nothing and this is all semantics. Since you're so intent on using the term, why don't you justify how a game lacking all game elements other than effortless forward progression offers more to build compelling narrative structure [I]as a game[/I] than one that incorporates mechanics into that? Your other examples and other examples in this thread have done that to varying degrees but Dear Esther and Everybody's Gone don't attempt at all. This is like if I were to say Myst should be called a choose your own adventure picture book, and then not want people to judge it on the merits I layed out by calling it a book. Look, now I can say anything I want and brush off criticism as haters!

Walking sims are just visual novels in a different format.

aMfP's was absolute shit they may be good with dialogue and plot but that's all their good at tbh [editline]27th September 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Peon Greenjoy;52722720]Seeing how you play all these games, make these games sound simple and dumb in that context you described. I'm curious.[/QUOTE] You are being totally willfully ignorant of the fact that these games have objectives, goals, and challenge in them GTA5 is an open world city gaming that includes racing, missions, and shooting Left 4 Dead is a 4 player coop zombie survival horror Fallout is a open world apocalypse survival with heavy RPG elements PUBG is a large scale last-man-standing survival shooter CS:GO is a team based first person shooter in which both teams must either plant/defuse a bomb, or steal/rescue hostages Dear Ester is a boring drudge where you press W and look at things that have no connection to the story or anything as a man talks pointlessly about what seems to be nothing happening. Music plays and, while its good you don't really care for the game itself because there are no objectives and no puzzles, there is nothing to keep your brain flowing, just a story that could quite frankly do better in an audiobook than a 'game'. The environment is kind of stale and nothing happens the entire game until the ending. [QUOTE=Mud;52722688]first person shooters by nature are hold w to get to next scripted horde of bad guys to spawn and fight you simulators literally every game is move forward for x to happen because games by nature require you to keep your momentum going to progress. what im saying is its a stupid fucking argument[/QUOTE] The difference is shooters have a challenge and objectives the argument isn't stupid because its [U]a fact[/U] that you pretty much just press W and look around in Dear Esther. In aMfP you do a lot more but it still makes for really boring horror.

[QUOTE=TestECull;52722035]I like the term because it means I won't end up accidentally buying a game that'll bore me to tears :v: Great story is great but I want some gameplay to go with it. If I'm in the mood for [I]just[/I] story I'll go find a movie or TV show or something on Youtube.[/QUOTE] I genuinely appreciate Gone Home after playing Everybody's Gone to the Rapture. Gone Home had physics objects to fuck with, actual exploration shit to do, [sp]hidden passages I didn't expect[/sp], and I managed to complete the game because all that was just enough to hang onto. It kept me entertained at 4 AM when I couldn't sleep. EBGTTR actually genuinely bored me to the point where halfway through I just uninstalled it and downloaded a (modern) Telltale game to play instead, the most predictable stories in the galaxy.

[QUOTE=J!NX;52722988]aMfP's was absolute shit they may be good with dialogue and plot but that's all their good at tbh [editline]27th September 2017[/editline] You are being totally willfully ignorant of the fact that these games have objectives, goals, and challenge in them GTA5 is an open world city gaming that includes racing, missions, and shooting Left 4 Dead is a 4 player coop zombie survival horror Fallout is a open world apocalypse survival with heavy RPG elements PUBG is a large scale last-man-standing survival shooter CS:GO is a team based first person shooter in which both teams must either plant/defuse a bomb, or steal/rescue hostages Dear Ester is a boring drudge where you press W and look at things that have no connection to the story or anything as a man talks pointlessly about what seems to be nothing happening. Music plays and, while its good you don't really care for the game itself because there are no objectives and no puzzles, there is nothing to keep your brain flowing, just a story that could quite frankly do better in an audiobook than a 'game'. The environment is kind of stale and nothing happens the entire game until the ending. The difference is shooters have a challenge and objectives the argument isn't stupid because its [U]a fact[/U] that you pretty much just press W and look around in Dear Esther. In aMfP you do a lot more but it still makes for really boring horror.[/QUOTE] I don't think you understood my post was sarcasm.

[QUOTE=Mud;52722735]So a game is only a game if it is complex. So I suppose we rule out pong and tetris as games[/QUOTE] Don't be a jackass, you're specifically misconstruing the point. What makes a game is the interaction, and while things like Dear Esther do require some input to move around, even Pong is significantly more engaging. There is no game aspect, in the literal definition: [quote]A game is a structured form of play, usually undertaken for enjoyment and sometimes used as an educational tool.[1] Games are distinct from work, which is usually carried out for remuneration, and from art, which is more often an expression of aesthetic or ideological elements. Key components of games are goals, rules, challenge, and interaction. Games generally involve mental or physical stimulation, and often both. Many games help develop practical skills, serve as a form of exercise, or otherwise perform an educational, simulational, or psychological role.[/quote] You can clearly state that Dear Esther and it's ilk are art, but 'game'? That's debatable and that's exactly why people are having this conversation now. This isn't to diminish the experience people have had with these media, but when we're talking about 'are they really games,' that's a whole different matter. And before you say it doesn't matter, it does, because advertising them as a 'game' could definitely mislead people who didn't want the product to end up buying it and regretting it.

[QUOTE=Peon Greenjoy;52722748]How is it being a stalky though? I literally clicked his steam icon under his avatar to see what games he plays? It's public, available information.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Peon Greenjoy;52723038]I don't think you understood my post was sarcasm.[/QUOTE] How is anyone possibly supposed to have read into this? Especially when it looks like its just adding onto muds point [QUOTE=Mud;52722735]So a game is only a game if it is complex. So I suppose we rule out pong and tetris as games [/QUOTE] this is such a strawman it may as well be shitposting like clearly that isn't anyones point. The point is that they have no objective or challenge. that doesn't mean they have no right to exist, they do, but they [U]literally and authentically are that simple[/U]

[media]https://twitter.com/chineseroom/status/725958220284465153[/media] Good riddance.

[QUOTE=J!NX;52723045]How is anyone possibly supposed to have read into this? Especially when it looks like its just adding onto muds point[/QUOTE] No worries, it's okay.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52723046][media]https://twitter.com/chineseroom/status/725958220284465153[/media] Good riddance.[/QUOTE] What a braindead tit [I]at least don't say that on your official dev twitter of ALL THINGS[/I] All he did was attach an opinion to a studio

[QUOTE=Tetsmega;52722982]Walking sims are just visual novels in a different format.[/QUOTE] Don't you mean "with walking" instead of "in a different format"?

They also turned Amnesia into a boring walking simulator with no scares. [B]How do you even do that?[/B]

Walking sims have a right to exist, and there is nothing wrong with that Its just that, when it comes to gameplay, there is none

[QUOTE=J!NX;52723139]Walking sims have a right to exist, and there is nothing wrong with that Its just that, when it comes to gameplay, there is none[/QUOTE] I'm more than OK with walking simulators. I had fun playing Firewatch and Dear Esther was objectively beautiful for a Source Engine game which let me overlook it being boring and uninteresting. It's more that they took an incredibly scary game with a ton of gameplay and made a shit walking simulator sequel that blows my mind.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52723144]I'm more than OK with walking simulators. I had fun playing Firewatch. It's more that they took an incredibly scary game with a ton of gameplay and made it a shit walking simulator that blows my mind.[/QUOTE] I felt like I was the main character, and I thought the main character was having a mental break down and it was all in his head Firewatch was nothing but a solid character study. That's how you do walking sim correctly.

[QUOTE=J!NX;52723139]Walking sims have a right to exist, and there is nothing wrong with that Its just that, when it comes to gameplay, there is none[/QUOTE] If you looked at the other posts, you'd know that there are tons of walking sims with more than walking. It's an evolving genre, at first it made its point with the bare minimum but now devs are apparently realizing that just walking isn't enough.

I get that people can get uppity about games with little interactivity and so forth, but when it comes to "walking simulators" you'd think someone lit a fire under their asses and the game killed their dog. What the hell pisses off so many people about them?

[QUOTE=Loadingue;52723357]If you looked at the other posts, you'd know that there are tons of walking sims with more than walking. It's an evolving genre, at first it made its point with the bare minimum but now devs are apparently realizing that just walking isn't enough.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=J!NX;52723147]I felt like I was the main character, and I thought the main character was having a mental break down and it was all in his head Firewatch was nothing but a solid character study. That's how you do walking sim correctly.[/QUOTE] uhhh

[QUOTE=RikohZX;52723400]I get that people can get uppity about games with little interactivity and so forth, but when it comes to "walking simulators" you'd think someone lit a fire under their asses and the game killed their dog. What the hell pisses off so many people about them?[/QUOTE] Overly high praise.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52723046][media]https://twitter.com/chineseroom/status/725958220284465153[/media] Good riddance.[/QUOTE] Twitter was a mistake.

Hot take: walking simulators aren't bad, they're just another genre, the Chinese room made bad walking simulators.

[QUOTE=Mud;52722523]because its a thing on facepunch to treat people who like games that are graced with the "not real games" banner like an annoying insufferable jackass[/QUOTE] Possibly because the "games media" keeps treating them as the most amazing thing ever made in the history of entertainment. The truth, as usual, is somewhere more nuanced. [editline]27th September 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Loth;52722915]Because it isn't important. It's a semantic argument that means nothing when it comes to the actual value of the game, and i'm completely sick of people who don't care for CR's games to use it as way to shit all over their stuff without actually criticising what's in it. Again who cares what it's named, what matters ls if it's good or not. If what you call it changes its value, then you care too much about semantics.[/QUOTE] Pretty amazing that your argument is about semantics when defending a dev that only cares about politics. That's quite a disconnect you've got going there.

What Remains of Edith Finch is a walking simulator with the best gameplay segment in a title to come out in 2017. [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kL5u0gmoW0[/media] People that don't think walking sims are games are just afraid of something that challenges parts of their brain that aren't linked to logical decision making. Imagine scoffing at the idea of prestige television before the days of HBO, it just comes from an environment of inexperience.

My only problem with the term is how overused it's becoming with some people. Like don't get me wrong some games literally are just straight up walking simulators (IE dear esther and... well that's basically the only one I've played i think lol), but the way people throw it around anytime a game has any emphasis on extended periods of exploration is just silly lol. That's not a new concept in a game, metroid prime did that shit years ago, and I don't buy that whole 'evolving genre' talk either because again this isn't something new and if it's not just walking then there's already other genres that apply. As far as an example goes, I wouldn't call [url=http://store.steampowered.com/app/487720/Agony/]Agony[/url] a walking simulator like others seem to. It's got fighting, puzzles, interaction with the environment, that whole possession mechanic, bosses, ways to die, all the standard shit. That's just another adventure game to me. idk 'Walking Simulator' for [B][U]some[/U][/B] clearly ADHD people seems to just be the new buzzword to throw around whenever a game has any quiet moments to it lol.

SOMA was a fantastic walking simulator; so was Penumbra: The Black Plague and Pathologic and The Void. There's plenty out there that do just fine and deserve more praise than they receive.