[UK] New ambulances rolled out for the obese - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Jarokwa;52214524]this post and the amount of people agreeing with it is just disgusting how ignorant can someone be?[/QUOTE] Its kind of hard to sympathize with people that are so fat they cant even walk when you workout 2 hours everyday 5 days a week. Whats so hard doing calories in and calories out?

[QUOTE=freaka;52214646]Its kind of hard to sympathize with people that are so fat they cant even walk when you workout 2 hours everyday 5 days a week. Whats so hard doing calories in and calories out?[/QUOTE] It's easy for you to say that but it's a lot harder for overweight and especially obese people to manage their weight themselves. Even if you can't understand that, and I've felt the same way you have, that losing weight is always easy because it was (relatively) easy for me, then you could at least remember that these people are still people. Don't sympathise, but recognise that fat people don't deserve to die because they're fat.

[QUOTE=freaka;52214646]Its kind of hard to sympathize with people that are so fat they cant even walk when you workout 2 hours everyday 5 days a week. Whats so hard doing calories in and calories out?[/QUOTE] You do realize that calories in calories out isnt the only factor at play right? it's not as easy as you think it is to lose weight and keep it lost. It has a lot to do with willpower and certain mechanisms in the body making it hard to lose weight, because we were born with them as part of a survival adaptation tens of thousands of years ago. [img]https://courses.washington.edu/conj/bess/adiposity/leptin-new.png[/img] The leptin negative feedback loop, as shown here, is a defense mechanism against starvation that prevents the body from easily losing weight. What essentially happens is that the metabolic rate goes down when the body finds it's getting less to eat than before, mistaking it for a state of starvation, thus encouraging it to store fat even when it's not getting as much to eat as before. And this is manifested by a persistent feeling of hunger, which in turn leads to breaking diets and eating more to make up for the perceived deficit.

[QUOTE=freaka;52214646]Its kind of hard to sympathize with people that are so fat they cant even walk when you workout 2 hours everyday 5 days a week. Whats so hard doing calories in and calories out?[/QUOTE] I barely work out, eat like shit and im still slim as fuck people have different metabolisms, other causes also lead to obesity aside from lack of exercise and like others said disorders.

[QUOTE=AK'z;52214006]so we should only heal people on a strict zen diet of pure vitamins and minerals and water only. or perhaps you have a family member whose obese but they don't matter as much to the world purely because of fat cells.[/QUOTE] You don't need to be on a ULTRA PURE CHIA SEED REGIMENT to not be obese, you just need to not consume more waaay calories than your burn.

[QUOTE=Mallow234;52213915]I don't really see why we should be investing in saving people who are destroying themselves willingly[/QUOTE] there are people who pretty much can't not be fat no matter what they do, and not because of their own mistake, but because they have [URL="http://www.webmd.com/women/guide/understanding-thyroid-problems-basics#1"]thyroid issues[/URL]. If you get a thyroid disease you can quite literally uncontrollably inflate, and not in the deviantart.com way, in the "Holy shit, my life is awful and I constantly feel like garbage" way.

[QUOTE=J!NX;52215131]there are people who pretty much can't not be fat no matter what they do, and not because of their own mistake, but because they have [URL="http://www.webmd.com/women/guide/understanding-thyroid-problems-basics#1"]thyroid issues[/URL]. If you get a thyroid disease you can quite literally uncontrollably inflate, and not in the deviantart.com way, in the "Holy shit, my life is awful and I constantly feel like garbage" way.[/QUOTE] Or other hormonal disorders like Cushing's disease, variants such as Pseudo-Cushing's induced by alcohol use or OCPs, among other examples as well.

[QUOTE=Daniel Smith;52215113]You don't need to be on a ULTRA PURE CHIA SEED REGIMENT to not be obese, you just need to not consume more waaay calories than your burn.[/QUOTE] m8 he said anyone who has a condition as a result of their diet shouldn't be treated. [editline]11th May 2017[/editline] not exactly but same thing

[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;52214895]You do realize that calories in calories out isnt the only factor at play right? it's not as easy as you think it is to lose weight and keep it lost. It has a lot to do with willpower and certain mechanisms in the body making it hard to lose weight, because we were born with them as part of a survival adaptation tens of thousands of years ago. [IMG]https://courses.washington.edu/conj/bess/adiposity/leptin-new.png[/IMG] The leptin negative feedback loop, as shown here, is a defense mechanism against starvation that prevents the body from easily losing weight. What essentially happens is that the metabolic rate goes down when the body finds it's getting less to eat than before, mistaking it for a state of starvation, thus encouraging it to store fat even when it's not getting as much to eat as before. And this is manifested by a persistent feeling of hunger, which in turn leads to breaking diets and eating more to make up for the perceived deficit.[/QUOTE] willpower; so basically getting out and taking a walk like all other normal humans do and counting your macros? There is no excuse of being fat in the 21st century when you can literally search on youtube any kind of good exercise to lose weight and stay in shape, people that are fat today are more or less lazy that cant take care of themselves. Also the leptin negative feedback is easily countered by again, stop eating shit food all the time, count your macros and make your body used to eat like a normal human being and you will get results. Stop making fat people think they have excuses for being fat.

[QUOTE=freaka;52215343]willpower; so basically getting out and taking a walk like all other normal humans do and counting your macros? There is no excuse of being fat in the 21st century when you can literally search on youtube any kind of good exercise to lose weight and stay in shape, people that are fat today are more or less lazy that cant take care of themselves. Also the leptin negative feedback is easily countered by again, stop eating shit food all the time, count your macros and make your body used to eat like a normal human being and you will get results. Stop making fat people think they have excuses for being fat.[/QUOTE] Just an fyi: one of the reasons why people fail diets is because they also set themselves very unrealistic goals, such as losing 10-20 kilos in a month. You're better served trying to lose weight in smaller steps than large chunks at a time. When I told you it isn't as easy as it looks, I meant it. A lot of people do try hard to lose weight, but fail to do so, or get discouraged because they don't see immediate results, because there are no quick fix solutions except for bariatric surgery or a lipo, and those are only done at the last extreme of all other means failing, not as an elective option.

[QUOTE=freaka;52215343]willpower; so basically getting out and taking a walk like all other normal humans do and counting your macros? There is no excuse of being fat in the 21st century when you can literally search on youtube any kind of good exercise to lose weight and stay in shape, people that are fat today are more or less lazy that cant take care of themselves. Also the leptin negative feedback is easily countered by again, stop eating shit food all the time, count your macros and make your body used to eat like a normal human being and you will get results. Stop making fat people think they have excuses for being fat.[/QUOTE] and yet more and more people are getting heavier and heavier your advice of "stop eating so much fatty" is a useless platitude because people have been saying it for decades and it hasn't been working it's about as helpful as shouting "stop smoking" to a smoker, "stop drinking" to an alcoholic, and "stop being depressed" to somebody who is depressed.

[QUOTE=freaka;52214646]Its kind of hard to sympathize with people that are so fat they cant even walk when you workout 2 hours everyday 5 days a week. Whats so hard doing calories in and calories out?[/QUOTE] [t]https://cbsminnesota.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/handcycle-stolen.jpg[/t] man born without legs "why don't you just walk" Man born without thyroid gland "Why don't you just not be fat"

[QUOTE=J!NX;52215390][t]https://cbsminnesota.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/handcycle-stolen.jpg[/t] man born without legs "why don't you just walk" Man born without thyroid gland "Why don't you just not be fat"[/QUOTE] Pretty shitty comparison though considering most fat people are fat with a choice and not because they were born with it, same with the guy in the wheelchair, born with it and cant change it. The 98% of fat people can change themselves. They just dont have the guts too, because training is difficult.

[QUOTE=freaka;52215413]Pretty shitty comparison though considering most fat people are fat with a choice and not because they were born with it, same with the guy in the wheelchair, born with it and cant change it. The 98% of fat people can change themselves. They just dont have the guts too, because training is difficult.[/QUOTE] How exactly do you know he was born without his legs? :thinking: on top of that being born with no limbs is a very rare condition unless it was induced by damage at an early stage or drugs.

I dont know? Should I know? Point still stands, he has no choice in his lifestyle. Fat people do, go out and take a walk loose some weight and you will feel better than sitting indoors shoving burgers in you.

[QUOTE=freaka;52215430]snip wrong art[/QUOTE] Then I stand corrected.

[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;52215432]Then I stand corrected.[/QUOTE] oh wait [url]http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2011/06/22/man-born-with-no-legs-gets-stolen-handcycle-back/[/url]

:snip:

[QUOTE=freaka;52215413]Pretty shitty comparison though considering most fat people are fat with a choice and not because they were born with it, same with the guy in the wheelchair, born with it and cant change it. The 98% of fat people can change themselves. They just dont have the guts too, because training is difficult.[/QUOTE] There are tons of people who are also suffering from depression and can't change that many of those peoples depression lead to their obesity Are they supposed to "Just change that" [editline]11th May 2017[/editline] "Just stop being depressed!"

[QUOTE=J!NX;52215390][t]https://cbsminnesota.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/handcycle-stolen.jpg[/t] man born without legs "why don't you just walk" Man born without thyroid gland "Why don't you just not be fat"[/QUOTE] Fair enough if you can't exercise, but then you eat less to make up for it. It's not rocket science. Like he said, calories in calories out. If you're like me and hardly any calories go out, make less go in. I totally understand for psychological issues though, it's all about mentality.

[QUOTE=Zonesylvania;52214895]You do realize that calories in calories out isnt the only factor at play right? it's not as easy as you think it is to lose weight and keep it lost. It has a lot to do with willpower and certain mechanisms in the body making it hard to lose weight, because we were born with them as part of a survival adaptation tens of thousands of years ago. [img]https://courses.washington.edu/conj/bess/adiposity/leptin-new.png[/img] The leptin negative feedback loop, as shown here, is a defense mechanism against starvation that prevents the body from easily losing weight. What essentially happens is that the metabolic rate goes down when the body finds it's getting less to eat than before, mistaking it for a state of starvation, thus encouraging it to store fat even when it's not getting as much to eat as before. And this is manifested by a persistent feeling of hunger, which in turn leads to breaking diets and eating more to make up for the perceived deficit.[/QUOTE] So, a rather shot-in-the-dark question, but with normal exercise/diet/etc, what's the validity/safety of leptin injections/supplements?

[QUOTE=LoneWolf_Recon;52215461]So, a rather shot-in-the-dark question, but with normal exercise/diet/etc, what's the validity/safety of leptin injections/supplements?[/QUOTE] The problem is, leptin is more effective at preventing starvation rather than modifying intake via overfeeding. It can, however, be more effective to maintain long term weight loss theoretically counteracting the low leptin levels seen after a large amount of weight is lost. Do note that it's not approved for such use by the FDA and clinical trials need to be performed before said approval might ever be granted. However, metreleptin, a leptin agonist, is being used to treat lipodystrophy (where fat cells degenerate and insulin resistance is seen), where it increases insulin sensitivity.

[QUOTE=J!NX;52215448]There are tons of people who are also suffering from depression and can't change that many of those peoples depression lead to their obesity Are they supposed to "Just change that" [editline]11th May 2017[/editline] "Just stop being depressed!"[/QUOTE] If the core of ones depression is obesity, taking pills is only doing half the job. Maybe the person should actually go out and do what the body is made for? Guess what, I've also been depressed in my life, I know what its like. But I didn't solve it by doing nothing, I took the chance and decided to do something about it which in my case was working out. Trying to go around to fix the core problem with pills wont help you, it makes you stuck in it. The core problem here is the obesity, which in turn is solved by doing exercise. And guess what, exercise does? makes you feel good, makes you proud of yourself and your work you're putting in which also release dopamin which ones again makes you feel good. Its the first step that many people need an ass kicking for, and the rest usually rolls on. Doesnt matter if someone is fat, obese, skinnyfat, depressed or just generally skinny. Its stepping out of the comfort zone which many people cant.

[QUOTE=freaka;52215503]If the core of ones depression is obesity, taking pills is only doing half the job. Maybe the person should actually go out and do what the body is made for? Guess what, I've also been depressed in my life, I know what its like. But I didn't solve it by doing nothing, I took the chance and decided to do something about it which in my case was working out. Trying to go around to fix the core problem with pills wont help you, it makes you stuck in it. The core problem here is the obesity, which in turn is solved by doing exercise. And guess what, exercise does? makes you feel good, makes you proud of yourself and your work you're putting in which also release dopamin which ones again makes you feel good. Its the first step that many people need an ass kicking for, and the rest usually rolls on. Doesnt matter if someone is fat, obese, skinnyfat, depressed or just generally skinny. Its stepping out of the comfort zone which many people cant.[/QUOTE] Brought to you by altfacts.science.gov

As valid as the argument for genetic causes of obesity may be, I feel like there's a lot of scapegoating going onto that. The vast majority of obese humans probably have no genetic issues, because the nature of genetic issues is that they're not common. Fat people are incredibly common. Therefore, I will conclude in my opinion that most fat people are fat thanks to lifestyle. I totally sympathize if somebody's DNA or psychological problems make it easy to gain weight/hard to lose weight, but that's still not really an excuse to at least strive to be healthy. Grab a Fitbit, it is a great concrete identifier of "am I active enough" or "am I slacking". Dieting and exercise can go a very long way. Even slight improvements on unhealthy eating habits can make a big difference over time. Not that I don't think people should enjoy what they eat, because hell I live off of fast food. But my body and activity level can manage my intake. When I see people that obviously struggle with weight issues shoveling fattening food into their mouths, it's a bit disappointing. I want to note I'm not in the boat that disagrees with bari ambulances, because anybody that needs medical attention should be able to receive it. I just think people shouldn't have made them necessary in the first place.

[QUOTE=SEKCobra;52213982]The fact that you think policing what people can eat (How the fuck would you even enforce this?) is the solution to obesity says it all.[/QUOTE] Feel free to quote mine where I said policing what people eat will lead to the end of obesity. I have a suspicion you deliberately misinterpreted what I said. Eating things is very definitely the first and most important step to becoming overweight. You can't become fat without eating anything. Consider that there is a huge amount of cheap food available together with high sugar and fat content, and eating those kinds of foods can easily give you more calories than you need, and you'll store those as fat. Government intervention at this step would be the easiest and the most realistic, because while they can have as many healthy eating and exercise incentives as they want, it is much easier for the government to prevent people from doing something than to force them to do it, regardless of what that "something" is. Restricting the amount of fat and sugar allowed in serving sizes would be one way to do it, but this would come at a cost, price increases, portion size decreases, companies having to change their recipe and their taste, etc. I haven't exactly made a Sherlock Holmes leap of logic here, so a response without a witty "hurr says its all :)" quip would be appreciated. [editline]12th May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=freaka;52215503]Its the first step that many people need an ass kicking for, and the rest usually rolls on. Doesnt matter if someone is fat, obese, skinnyfat, depressed or just generally skinny. Its stepping out of the comfort zone which many people cant.[/QUOTE] This would be reasonable if you didn't downplay this as much as you did. Yes, lifestyle is a habit, true. Yes, people can change their lifestyles with great effort, true, but the amount of effort needed to change the lifestyle of someone who is obese is enormous, and it has to be a genuine, repeated effort from them. They already have a difficult start to any new diet and exercise regimen because being obese negatively impacts both your physical and mental ability, and this means that any regimen has a chance to fail before it begins because the willpower required is enormous. Not only that, obese people can't get 'incidentally' in shape. What I mean by that is, some people's lifestyles by default cause them to become physically fit. Perhaps they need to lift heavy things all day or they need to walk around a lot. Obese people likely don't have this option. This means that they now have to pursue their fitness regimen in their own time. It's also safe to assume that obese people don't particularly enjoy intense physical activity (there are even fit people who don't), so that means they have to take time out of their free time to do something they hate, regularly, for something they won't see results for for several months at the very least.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;52216706]Feel free to quote mine where I said policing what people eat will lead to the end of obesity. I have a suspicion you deliberately misinterpreted what I said. Eating things is very definitely the first and most important step to becoming overweight. You can't become fat without eating anything. Consider that there is a huge amount of cheap food available together with high sugar and fat content, and eating those kinds of foods can easily give you more calories than you need, and you'll store those as fat. Government intervention at this step would be the easiest and the most realistic, because while they can have as many healthy eating and exercise incentives as they want, it is much easier for the government to prevent people from doing something than to force them to do it, regardless of what that "something" is. Restricting the amount of fat and sugar allowed in serving sizes would be one way to do it, but this would come at a cost, price increases, portion size decreases, companies having to change their recipe and their taste, etc. I haven't exactly made a Sherlock Holmes leap of logic here, so a response without a witty "hurr says its all :)" quip would be appreciated.[/QUOTE] You seem to have an unrealistic expectation towards what legislation can actually do. You can not realistically dictate what humans put into their mouth. Having stricter allowances for food nutrition contents might prevent (currently considered) 'bad' food from being produced industrially, more likely it will just change serving sizes to even more unrealistic small bites. It's also highly unlikely that you could ever get something like that approved, considering it's an expected and basic freedom for people to eat the food they want. And not everyone is obese. Combating obesity is certainly not going to work by making it illegal or letting people die. If you want to do something on a legislative level, you have to implement programs to prevent obesity, mostly through education.