Waymo Testing Self-Driving Cars on Public Roads with No One at the Wheel, Ridehailing in a Few Month - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Nookyava;52866935]I wonder how these react with certain situations where there's a car tailing your ass, and the light turns yellow. In a normal circumstance you'd brake if you had clearance behind you, but if you do so the car behind you is likely to rear end you, so I always speed through the light if that's the case. How would the car react?[/QUOTE] They have 600k miles driven and billions simulated. They probably don't program explicit instructions for corner cases like this. I'm going to guess the majority of driving decisions are made using machine learning models trained from driving data.

[QUOTE=Nookyava;52866935]I wonder how these react with certain situations where there's a car tailing your ass, and the light turns yellow. In a normal circumstance you'd brake if you had clearance behind you, but if you do so the car behind you is likely to rear end you, so I always speed through the light if that's the case. How would the car react?[/QUOTE] In most jurisdictions isn't a wreck in that case completely his fault? So hey, at least you'll probably get something for it. Like sometimes cars intentionally brake in the middle of roads to cause wrecks to get insurance. These will have camera evidence too. [QUOTE=Chryseus;52866698]I would not ride in one of those even if you paid me. You can't really guarantee that the system isn't going to fail and end up killing yourself or other people, even aircraft which have some of the most advanced computer systems that have been developed for decades still fail on occasion. If you can manually take control in an emergency then that's fine but I still think it's a bad idea, people riding it at are hardly going to be paying much attention to the road like a normal driver would.[/QUOTE] You're statistically so much safer in these than driving on your own. Computers don't get tired, drunk, they don't lose focus, etc.. And the steering wheel is there, so I assume there is emergency control.

[QUOTE=Harbie;52866937]They have 600k miles driven and billions simulated. They probably don't program explicit instructions for corner cases like this. I'm going to guess the majority of driving decisions are made using machine learning models trained from driving data.[/QUOTE] I hope that's done before it starts being pushed out more just because of so many different possibilities. Still very curious to see where this goes - although I hope car ownership never truly goes away. I enjoy driving.

Impressive. [I]I still want the giant red manual override button on the dash though[/I]

That's awesome, can't wait for this over here but I wonder how long the road complexity issues will delay this coming to Europe.

[QUOTE=Chryseus;52866820]I mean they become confused since either they are not paying close attention to what is going on and they get taken by surprise or the car is unable to provide a clear indication of what is wrong, the latter isn't such a big problem but my point is as far as I'm aware there is nothing in a self driving car that forces the passenger to pay close attention to the road so if something does fail catastrophically they're pretty much screwed. One could argue that human drivers are more prone to accidents and that is probably very true but they've not been proven reliable enough yet in my opinion, I dunno about you but if I'm going to have a car accident I'd rather it be my own fault than down to the computer shitting itself.[/QUOTE] I'm sure whoever you hit would agree

Whenever self-driving cars get brought up, a ton of people that have no idea what they're talking about begin rabidly fighting over the moral implications. I really wish that wouldn't happen anymore.

[QUOTE=phygon;52867065]Whenever self-driving cars get brought up, a ton of people that have no idea what they're talking about begin rabidly fighting over the moral implications. I really wish that wouldn't happen anymore.[/QUOTE] Overhearing a truck driver explain why self-driving cars are worthless was the highlight of my week when it happened. The raw pettiness was just too real. He all but admitted "These cant become a thing because it undermines 100% of my value as a worker"

[QUOTE=BlackWolf97;52867087]Overhearing a truck driver explain why self-driving cars are worthless was the highlight of my week when it happened. The raw pettiness was just too real. He all but admitted "These cant become a thing because it undermines 100% of my value as a worker"[/QUOTE] Haha yeah dude wanting to keep your job is so petty haha

[QUOTE=bdd458;52867132]Haha yeah dude wanting to keep your job is so petty haha[/QUOTE] What should happen is they should be trained and hired by whatever company comes in with the driverless cars

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52867197]What should happen is they should be trained and hired by whatever company comes in with the driverless cars[/QUOTE] To do what? If they had enough openings for that then there's be no advantage to driverless cars. If your answer is "maintenance/upkeep", that's a fair bit of retraining and still wouldn't fill all of the lost jobs. Additionally, if we continue to move towards electric cars, they will need much less maintenance than traditional cars.

[QUOTE=Harbie;52867208]To do what? If they had enough openings for that then there's be no advantage to driverless cars. If your answer is "maintenance/upkeep", that's a fair bit of retraining and still wouldn't fill all of the lost jobs. Additionally, if we continue to move towards electric cars, they will need much less maintenance than traditional cars.[/QUOTE] True, but for some it could be a stepping stone [editline]8th November 2017[/editline] This is where a better education system would be really handy. Also UBI

[QUOTE=Chryseus;52866698]I would not ride in one of those even if you paid me. You can't really guarantee that the system isn't going to fail and end up killing yourself or other people, even aircraft which have some of the most advanced computer systems that have been developed for decades still fail on occasion. [/QUOTE] so do regular cars. so do guns. so do power tools.

So do drivers

[QUOTE=BlackWolf97;52867087]Overhearing a truck driver explain why self-driving cars are worthless was the highlight of my week when it happened. The raw pettiness was just too real. He all but admitted "These cant become a thing because it undermines 100% of my value as a worker"[/QUOTE] Yeah, fuck people who drive for a living being pissed that their jobs are on the line. Pretty funny haha!

Salt aside, I can't wait for the day where self driving cars have come far enough that there are no humans on the road. Like, once we all have our self driving cars, make human drivers just flat out illegal.

[QUOTE=Cmx;52867238]Yeah, fuck people who drive for a living being pissed that their jobs are on the line. Pretty funny haha![/QUOTE] Mocking someone for making a dumb argument doesn't mean you want them to be homeless. Countries need to have systems in place to deal with structural unemployment, not maintain archaic jobs.

[QUOTE=Chryseus;52866754]There is quite a big difference between an electronic breaking system and a full self-driving system, the more complex something is the greater the chance of failure, also in that case the driver would already be concentrating on driving and would be able to rapidly take action to try prevent a crash, automation is all good and well but it's a well documented fact that in a sudden unexpected condition the driver can become become confused or slow to react as has caused several air crashes.[/QUOTE] Except that self driving cars remove the biggest complexity in the car: the person behind the wheel. I would argue that self driving cars are less complex than a car/human driver system. Computers and mechanical parts are oh so much more predictable than the mind of a person.

I'm gonna have to call this: Even though the accident rate will probably be far lower than for human drivers, they're ineveitably going to become known as complete deathmobiles whenever they deploy sufficiently many of them for accidents to start occuring. Something being more reliable doesn't necessarily make it better if it fails less predictably, or more spectacularily whenever it does. They're also not necessarily gonna be able to fix it whenever it happens.

Will it pull over if it sees an ambulance behind it trying to get through? Will it be able to dodge homing kangaroos? If not they should have a cow catcher

[QUOTE=LAMB SAUCE;52867687]Will it pull over if it sees an ambulance behind it trying to get through? Will it be able to dodge homing kangaroos? If not they should have a cow catcher[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's been trained to respond correctly to emergency services. Linked an article about it on page 1.

[QUOTE=Cmx;52867238]Yeah, fuck people who drive for a living being pissed that their jobs are on the line. Pretty funny haha![/QUOTE] I think people are misunderstanding. He's not losing his job, he's a skilled driver with a pretty decent rig and lots of experience. He's mad that there's a very real possibility that the job of truck driving become a job of the past, like milkmen or something. He's making baseless claims to justify this which are obviously not true. I dont have an excerpt to fact check but it was things like "they're not safe" or "no technology will out-drive me" which are antithetical to his point. If self-driving cars were the death risk he suggested, why would they take over the as the prominent way to deliver products? Are you being replaced by robots that are more efficient than you or are SDC a fluke idea that will go nowhere and get people killed in the process? Again, no excerpt to fact check and this was months ago but I remember at the time thinking "wow you haven't looked into this at all, have you?" with every new sentence and that's why I thought it would be a funny post. I'm sorry I insulted a working man and I'm sorry I dont remember his exact points more clearly. But I stand by the idea that's funny that a man would go on a rant about self driving cars being a stupid idea not because of science, but because 'I spent my life getting good at this job so it [I]can't[/I] go away'.

[QUOTE=bdd458;52867132]Haha yeah dude wanting to keep your job is so petty haha[/QUOTE] Compared to the absolute objective positive societal value of having the #1 non-medical cause of death in the US evaporate? Hell yes it is. [editline]8th November 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=SIRIUS;52867197]What should happen is they should be trained and hired by whatever company comes in with the driverless cars[/QUOTE] Why is it their job to re-train the drivers? Warning signs that those jobs are not long-lived are absolutely everywhere. Any truck driver who is not actively seeking training for some other job is being incredibly foolish. It's like those people that are actively staying in coal mining jobs without seeking other training.

The one thing I always feared in a self-driving car future where it's the majority is if a mistake occurs. I always imagine that when a human fucks up, it already causes a wreck and a huge mess. If everyone is using similar systems and they happen to have a glitch in them, then every single car that uses it is going to fuck up too isn't it? I'm not very clear on this stuff so it would be really interesting to know if this has a failsafe or whatever you call it.

[QUOTE=kariko;52868155]The one thing I always feared in a self-driving car future where it's the majority is if a mistake occurs. I always imagine that when a human fucks up, it already causes a wreck and a huge mess. If everyone is using similar systems and they happen to have a glitch in them, then every single car that uses it is going to fuck up too isn't it? I'm not very clear on this stuff so it would be really interesting to know if this has a failsafe or whatever you call it.[/QUOTE] In any system as big as a network of self driving cars, any widespread change wouldn't be pushed through without significant testing, canaries, and the ability to roll it back en masse if things went wrong. Additionally, the machine learning models that operate most of the car tend to not have explicit"glitches" in the traditional sense.

Five minutes until people start messing with them, brake checking them to see what they'll do and stuff

[QUOTE=Harbie;52866751][url]https://www.forbes.com/sites/chunkamui/2017/02/08/waymo-is-crushing-it/[/url] Waymo has the fewest manual interventions per mile driven among every company in the self-driving space.[/QUOTE] Google/Waymo have been tinkering with self-driving cars for nearly a decade at this point, things would have to be going seriously wrong for them to not have the best driving record of any company with self-driving cars.

[QUOTE=Chinook249;52868264]Five minutes until people start messing with them, brake checking them to see what they'll do and stuff[/QUOTE] And then people will get the book thrown at them for doing blatantly illegally things while being recorded by the car.

[QUOTE=phygon;52868093]Why is it their job to re-train the drivers? Warning signs that those jobs are not long-lived are absolutely everywhere. Any truck driver who is not actively seeking training for some other job is being incredibly foolish. It's like those people that are actively staying in coal mining jobs without seeking other training.[/QUOTE] Training is expensive and time-consuming. If you're making shit pay and living on the road, how are you supposed to make the switch?

[QUOTE=phygon;52868093]Why is it their job to re-train the drivers? Warning signs that those jobs are not long-lived are absolutely everywhere. Any truck driver who is not actively seeking training for some other job is being incredibly foolish. It's like those people that are actively staying in coal mining jobs without seeking other training.[/QUOTE] Saying this doesn't actually solve any problems, by the way. People do what people do and you can't change psychology, it's the job of policymakers to work around that. As for solutions, as I stated earlier we need stronger mechanisms put into place to deal with structural unemployment, largely meaning unemployment caused by changes in technology. There's a few ways to do this. One source for inspiration may be the Swedish job-security councils, even if they're more broad. These job-security councils are private organizations paid into by employer contributions. When an employee gets laid off, these councils assist them in retraining, finding other jobs, and they help financially sustain them in the meantime. The metrics indicate that this system is very effective at getting workers back into jobs, alleviating suffering, and at making the economy more efficient by enabling companies to more easily shed unneeded employees compared to other ways of forcing job security. [URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/10/how-to-lay-people-off/543948/[/URL] more on that.