/pol/ has started an initiative to post up “It’s Okay To Be White” Flyers - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52850293]"You're what's wrong with America. You sit in your chair on your fat ass at home while your money - hell, your culture - is stolen from you. And you don't even see it, do you? You just gonna sit there and deny it? You need to care more, you lazy fuck. That's what's gotten us into this whole damned mess: shitbrains like you who're so busy shoving their faces into a warm, little, hole they haven't seen where this country's going. I bet you don't even have the strength to admit it: that you're being robbed, right now, right this very second. Hell, we're all fucking being robbed. So, which is it? You blind or are you willing to open your god-given eyes for once and see?"[/QUOTE] Thats sure to make people listen to your arguments, insulting and belittling them. Thats absolutely guaranteed to make people want to listen to your side, because people like being insulted and belittled by strangers when they might not have an understanding of a situation. [QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52850314]I'm a Nazi in this argument.[/QUOTE] I must be out of it today, i somehow missed that. Still i think that guys trying to do a hypothetical about what you'd say to the layman who's oblivious to all of this or whatever.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;52850310]Thats sure to make people listen to your arguments, insulting and belittling them.[/QUOTE] I'm a Nazi in this argument. I don't give a shit if I offend the people that weren't ready to listen anyway - like a Nigerian e-mail scammer all I care about are the people stupid enough or desperate enough to reply anyway. I need people weak enough to push around and who I can mess with the heads of, but riled up enough and dis-satisfied with their lives enough that they're willing to give the benefit of the doubt just long enough for me to sink my hooks in. I'm not here running for President and I need to constantly show that 'there are no limits' when I talk - because that's exactly the atmosphere I want to build, that's where my argument is the strongest. I want people to be angry; I want people to feel angry. I want to tell them that anger they're feeling is the fault of the jews, of the blacks, of immigrants - that they've been bottling it up inside and were too polite to let it out because they were taught wrong - they've been bullied by a society of hypocrites too cowardly to let people like me speak because they know I'm right and they're afraid of us - of our anger. They've been peer-pressured to accept that they're 'weak' so I'm here to show them what strength looks like. They should be getting mad because 'hate gets shit done'. They should be mad because they have no identity - because it's been stolen. And so on and so on, etc. etc. You want to know what a White Supremacist talks like, go listen to a White Supremacist. If anything, I'm being rather damn polite for a Nazi. (2:22) [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIrcB1sAN8I[/media] Also, I note that there was no rebuttal/furtherance from your part. Remember how I said it'd be a waste of my time to act this part if you weren't my target audience? This is why. This is their rhetoric; you didn't reply because you weren't swayed and I didn't care because you're not who I'm looking for.

[QUOTE=e_k_M;52850292]after reading about how weird people in america have this "white man's guilt" feeling bad for things they never did and most people who go "i fucking hate white people" are white themselves it shows that there are hate against white/themselves. but of course it can go straight to becoming white nationlism thing if they used the people who tare down the papers as ammo.[/QUOTE] The people who do that are nonsensical, but they are also teetering on unintentionally reciting racist (against minorities/African Americans) notions about [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man%27s_Burden]The White Man's Burden[/url]. By that, I mean it almost goes full circle into condescending minorities by oversimplifying things and grouping them into a single category of an oppressed victim class without any of the context of the surrounding meta-narratives that historically have placed minority groups below white people. It not only makes white people out to be evil but also minorities to be pitiable rather than resolute. It's mentioned in that expert I quoted from MLK with regards to exasperation, bitterness and hatred that leads to the belief that white people are intrinsically evil or an 'incorrigible "devil."' (although I imagine it does not apply to themselves somehow) instead of more rightly blaming the existing power structure or social systems.

[QUOTE=Duck M.;52849719]Milo et al are masters of manipulating outrage to their benefit. Their entire career revolves around building a base to rally around, expanding their platform, and then feeding off of the anger that their visibility garners. They've no doubt garnered more notoriety because of their detractors, but these individuals, especially those like Milo and Akkad, made a name for themselves independent of any responses to their actions. If you stop "reacting" to them (i.e. not supporting their platforming at universities and the like), you let them do as they please. It's the same principle with this slogan. If you react, you lose. If you don't react, you lose. It's extremely difficult to win against a carefully built strategy of irrationality. The battle is indeed over garnering the support of "normies" but the reality is that many of the circumstances around prevailing moods lend themselves to people being sold the lies of the alt-right. For every long, well thought out response dissecting and debunking their sensational talking points they can churn out 5 more. A long dissertation is much less visible and digestible than a short catchphrase riddled with dogwhistles.[/QUOTE] Ultimately, winning this sort of battle is very tough, and requires a lot of thought. First, you find common ground, then you try to understand where they're coming from, what they desire, and how they operate. Once you figure them out(and not some vague skewed, subjective interpretation like "sargon of akkad is a racist bigoted asshole"), you target their core ideas. If you're able to satisfy around at least half of their important goals without resorting to ad hominem, flawed arguments, or becoming disliked by them, you can chip away at their core beliefs and get them to self-reflect. You'll never be able to completely change everything about someone , but by targeting their motivations and exploiting their modus operandi, you can certainly provoke a change of heart. It may not even be instant, it could happen weeks, months or years down the line. But striking down their hidden motivations with a very calculated approach seems necessary. It also helps to be very friendly and polite when it comes to the person, even if you have the utmost disgust for them and their ideology, while also aggressively targeting every claim they have with multiple facts to debunk it.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;52850310]Thats sure to make people listen to your arguments, insulting and belittling them. Thats absolutely guaranteed to make people want to listen to your side, because people like being insulted and belittled by strangers when they might not have an understanding of a situation.[/QUOTE] [i]Look man, I don't give a damn about your politically correct "ooooh, you gotta be nice to people" bullshit, just because I'm not subscribed to the ettiquette of the university elite doesn't mean what I say has no substance. You're just trying to shut me down by tone policing. This is what SJWs do in order to shut down conversations about things they don't like, such as the fact that our open borders are a problem, we have too many foreigners coming in that don't intergrate with our culture. Nobody is talking about stuff like this because it's too politically incorrect. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTDmsmN43NA]Just because I'm aware of the problems of non-white people coming into a country with a predominately white-population[/url], doesn't mean I hate people that aren't white. But that's what the SJWs and the MSM would have you believe. Just because I'm concerned about that doesn't make me racist. In fact, you're the real racist because you're trying to shut me down.[/i]

[QUOTE=Zyler;52850364][i]Look man, I don't give a damn about your politically correct "ooooh, you gotta be nice to people" bullshit, just because I'm not subscribed to the ettiquette of the university elite doesn't mean what I say has no substance. You're just trying to shut me down by tone policing. This is what SJWs do in order to shut down conversations about things they don't like, such as the fact that our open borders are a problem, we have too many foreigners coming in that don't intergrate with our culture. Nobody is talking about stuff like this because it's too politically incorrect. [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTDmsmN43NA]Just because I'm aware of the problems of non-white people coming into a country with a predominately white-population[/url], doesn't mean I hate people that aren't white. But that's what the SJWs and the MSM would have you believe. Just because I'm concerned about that doesn't make me racist[/i][/QUOTE] This guy gets it. This guy knows where the creature they're trying to find lives and how it likes to be fed. Edit: And if it disgusts you: [B]Good.[/B] Because it should. But it [I]doesn't[/I] disgust the people who they're targeting - that's the problem. You need to convince [I]those[/I] people that 'Nazis are not the way to go'. That's the real battle here. [quote=AaronM202]Still i think that guys trying to do a hypothetical about what you'd say to the layman who's oblivious to all of this or whatever.[/quote] I realized this. I told him that's useless because the layman who joins up with the nazis will be exposed to the shit I was flinging above as a Nazi sooner than later. When they see that shit fly, if they're like you or me (that is to say 'not a horribly compromised person'), they'll decide they don't want any part of this. That problem solves itself. The problem is those who find the above rhetoric attractive - or even just 'acceptable'.

[QUOTE=space1;52850360]Ultimately, winning this sort of battle is very tough, and requires a lot of thought. First, you find common ground, then you try to understand where they're coming from, what they desire, and how they operate. Once you figure them out(and not some vague skewed, subjective interpretation like "sargon of akkad is a racist bigoted asshole"), you target their core ideas. If you're able to satisfy around at least half of their important goals without resorting to ad hominem, flawed arguments, or becoming disliked by them, you can chip away at their core beliefs and get them to self-reflect. You'll never be able to completely change everything about someone, but by targeting their motivations and exploiting their modus operandi, you can certainly provoke a change of heart. It may not even be instant, it could happen weeks, months or years down the line. But striking down their hidden motivations with a very calculated approach seems necessary. It also helps to be very friendly and polite when it comes to the person, even if you have the utmost disgust for them and their ideology, while also aggressively targeting every claim they have with multiple facts to debunk it.[/QUOTE] So you end up having a 50 page argument about it, they repeatedly take you out of context, go on wild tangents before returning to the same point that you've already debunked over and over again in an attempt to trick you, make personal attacks against you and twist everything you say in an attempt to make it seem like you are trying to insult them. Still, you manage to never lose your cool, keep their points straight and deconstruct every argument they make without tying yourself in knots. And then what? They just call you a pisshat and then move on to the next place they can spread propaganda. What? Did you think they were going to come around if you defeated all of their arguments? How could you think they would be convinced of anything if they were never going to debate honestly in the first place? Sure, they probably have actual reasons for believing what they do, but they'd were never going to tell you what those reasons are. They had already decided before they even stepped foot onto the forum/debating hall that they were going to "show some libcuck sjws whose boss" and they had no intention of actually debating honestly. They have enormous social pressure on them not to look weak in front of their friends. They were trolling you, and no matter what happens they will go back to the actual place where they meet with their similarly aligned buddies and laugh about how they totally pwned that guy on the internet. They aren't interested in learning anything, as far as they're concerned YOU are the one that needs to be educated, and no amount of 'rational' discussion is going to convince them of something they aren't actually interested in learning. People don't join white supremacist groups because they are convinced by the rational arguments of white supremacy, they join because they were predisposed by an already existing real and deep emotional need to feel valued and a part of something as well as a deep seated bitterness and hatred towards the society that, in their mind, has not provided for them. The moment you challenge those beliefs, you are already "disliked by them". You CAN convince people who have taken up racial supremacy to disavow it, but you MUST understand that the reason they believe these things is due to deep seated emotional issues and not the surface level talking points. [video=youtube;FVdI6eJlAwY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVdI6eJlAwY[/video]

[QUOTE=AaronM202;52850310] I must be out of it today, i somehow missed that. Still i think that guys trying to do a hypothetical about what you'd say to the layman who's oblivious to all of this or whatever.[/QUOTE] I am pretending to be the everyday man who only cares about what affects me immediately. So like I said why should I care? How does it help me?

[QUOTE=Guriosity;52850450]I am pretending to be the everyday man who only cares about what affects me immediately. So like I said why should I care? How does it help me?[/QUOTE] "Brother if you need me to tell you why reclaiming your heritage - your money - your god-given skin helps you then you need more help than I can give. Sure sounds like you're too afraid to take those comfortable blinders off to see the problems around you."

[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52850462]"Brother if you need me to tell you why reclaiming your heritage - your money - your god-given skin helps you then you need more help than I can give."[/QUOTE] Umm I'm not interested in being a racist. Get the fuck off my porch before I call the cops. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Threadshitting - This is not a roleplay thread" - Mezzokoko))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Guriosity;52850468]Umm I'm not interested in being a racist. Get the fuck off my porch before I call the cops.[/QUOTE] "That's fine, I'll go, you race-traitor. Stab your brother in the back, that's fine, I understand. You're real comfortable underneath that boot - too scared to see the world crumbling. I'll see you on the street when some asian coke-sniffer's got your job and some grass-smelling mexican's porking your wife, wondering what the hell hit you. Don't say I didn't warn you." See what I mean? That's why it doesn't matter that you're an 'average joe'. Just like I said, you're not going to receive my rhetoric and that's fine - because I as a Nazi don't even want you to. What I want to find are the people who are receptive - who I can mold, who I can find the anger of and exploit. Just a waste of my time, like I said.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;52850475]not every white supremacist is a burly nazi tatted aryan dude who will call you brother and hail evropa, most of these chucklefucks are scrawny white/asian/sometimesevenmexicansometimeslol dudes who are gonna give you some faux-kindness and try to be a new revolutionary grassroots group to stand up against the dirty media slandering their race next thing ya know youre at a white lives matter rally surrounded by people who hate any of the darker races and you mingle with them, share ideas, and get further down the rabbit hole[/QUOTE] So, basically what I've already said. Reasonable people might maybe get lured in if they lose their sense for a moment - but when they find themselves 'in the heart of darkness' they're going to go 'fuck this' and get out. This isn't some 'trickle-down economics' psuedo-capitalist bullshit that you can go 'well, I've got studies and so on proving my point'. You're trying to save everyone when you only need to save those who're susceptible to the message to begin with. Nazi-ism is literally 'Kill all the other races to protect the white race'. If you're not on board with that, you're not on board with the Nazis.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;52850480]it's a slow boiling frog, not to mention that these dudes generally don't go by anything related to neo nazi or kkk or whatever reasonable people can become irrational people with just a bit of persuasion and instilled fear that their way of life is threatened, otherwise we wouldn't have tons of people voting against their interests every election cycle[/QUOTE] Nazi-ism isn't a slow boil. It's a ripping hot buttered steel pan. You know on contact whether you're OK with this shit or not. [quote]reasonable people can become irrational people with just a bit of persuasion[/quote] Also, that's ridiculous. Reasonable people aren't on a hair trigger to become irrational.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;52850486]people who are politically active and who aren't conservative: sure average dude who goes to work, gets home, watches tv, fucks his girlfriend: probably not people are very easy to manipulate given the right circumstances[/quote] People are very easy to manipulate given the right circumstances, yes, one of those circumstances being: What do they care about? What are their predispositions? Outside of that [I]extremely narrow[/I] corridor people are [B]hard[/B] to manipulate. Like I've been going on about this whole time - Nazis target those who have the predispositions, who already care and who are already angry. They're the easiest to convert. [QUOTE=RichyZ;52850486]no one's on a hair trigger, but you can't possibly say that basically all of the alt right and a good chunk of conservative voters outside of that are innately irrational people[/QUOTE] Yeah, but I'm not talking about converting people to the alt-right (which is easy) or conservatives (easier). I'm talking about converting people to Nazi-ism. People [B]know[/B] what Nazis are. People [B]don't know[/B] what the Alt-Right is (or at least enough of them don't or don't know enough such that I can 'fill in the blanks for them' and make it sound innocuous and empowering).

[QUOTE=Chris Morris;52849700]White Supremacy: "We want to kill every motherfucking POC scumbag on this goddamn rock and create a whites-only nation" BLM, in its original intent: "Please stop killing people of color?" You: "I really can't tell the difference!!" [/QUOTE] I was more so talking about the phrases themselves being akin to each other

[QUOTE=RichyZ;52850471]it'd be more like "the media is demonizing white people more and more these days, want to join me and some friends in a demonstration to stand up against that stuff?"[/QUOTE] Let try again. You are trying persuade me (everyday Joe) to join the left. Like I said why should I care? What's in it for me?

[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52850478]So, basically what I've already said. Reasonable people might maybe get lured in if they lose their sense for a moment - but when they find themselves 'in the heart of darkness' they're going to go 'fuck this' and get out. This isn't some 'trickle-down economics' psuedo-capitalist bullshit that you can go 'well, I've got studies and so on proving my point'. Nazi-ism is literally 'Kill all the other races to protect the white race'. If you're not on board with that, you're not on board with the Nazis.[/QUOTE] As human beings, we try to rationalize whatever beliefs we hold regardless of whether they were our ideas to begin with. This is true even if they were ideas that were essentially handed to us by somebody else. The things we agree with are the things we believe to be true, and we want things to make sense. Our psychology intrinsically requires that we must assume "A is true" before we can assume "A causes B" even if it leads to the logic "A is true, A causes B and B is true because A causes B", [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning]which is circular reasoning[/url] That's why you end up with things like [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1582534&p=52800069&viewfull=1#post52800069]"ethnic cleansing is not inherently violent"[/url] or [url=https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1530396&p=50880230&viewfull=1#post50880230]"Gas the kikes does not objectively mean 'kill the jews'"[/url]. Or any of the litany of conspiracy theories which can be thought of as immediately absurd on the face of it, like the flat earth conspiracy, but yet subsist on rhetoric like "that's just what they want you to think", i.e. that the government COULD be hiding something and that thing COULD be the earth being flat so it must be true. We assume our conclusions in our premise. In other words, we assume that something is true and then work backwards to prove it. So, if we are already convinced of something being true, like "governments are hiding something" or "SJWs are bad" and someone attempts to convince us of something else which includes those conclusions in its premise, we are more likely to believe them than not and it is also more likely that we will feel that we need to be convinced that the idea is false rather than it needing to be proven to be true because of what we consider to be the already existing 'evidence' of the prior conclusion.

[quote=Zyler]In other words, we assume that something is true and then work backwards to prove it.[/quote] You only make those assumptions once you've already 'bought into' the thing you're making the assumptions on. Nobody comes 'pre-bought' into the Nazis who weren't already leaning 'towards' those lines of logic to begin with. [quote=Guriosity]Let try again. You are trying persuade me (everyday Joe) to join the left.[/quote] Try again? That wasn't the thing to begin with. Also what in the nine hells does 'joining the left' have to do with what they posted?

[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52850501]You only make those assumptions once you've already 'bought into' the thing you're making the assumptions on. Nobody comes 'pre-bought' into the Nazis who weren't already leaning 'towards' those lines of logic to begin with.[/QUOTE] That's what I was saying, people who buy into rhetoric were already leaning towards the existing logic of some conclusion that feeds into the rhetoric of white supremacy or whatever else.

[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52850501]You only make those assumptions once you've already 'bought into' the thing you're making the assumptions on. Nobody comes 'pre-bought' into the Nazis who weren't already leaning 'towards' those lines of logic to begin with. Try again? That wasn't the thing to begin with.[/QUOTE] The big problem with the left is their inability to relate to common folk and their inability to self reflect. Both are weaknesses the alt right are using against you. So by trying to convince me the everyday Joe to join the left the sooner you can craft your message to save such people before the Nazis get ahold of them.

[QUOTE=Zyler;52850506]That's what I was saying, people who buy into rhetoric were already leaning towards the existing logic of some conclusion that feeds into the rhetoric of white supremacy or whatever else.[/QUOTE] Yes, but I don't really agree with it being such a casual 'step 1' -> 'step 2' -> 'step 3'. There's more barriers to that here than are being stated - at least for most people. Trust, especially in the beginning stages of any relationship, is hard-won and easily lost. [QUOTE=Guriosity;52850508]The big problem with the left is their inability to relate to common folk and their inability to self reflect. Both are weaknesses the alt right are using against you. So by trying to convince me the everyday Joe to join the left the sooner you can craft your message to save such people before the Nazis get ahold of them.[/QUOTE] I... wow. No. That has nothing to do with anything. The opposite of Nazi is not 'the left'. Nor does 'the left have an inability to relate to the common folk' wtf. Independents are not 'more predisposed' to become Nazis than anyone on the left. Progressives are not necessarily less predisposed to become Nazis either. You're conflating political ideology with an ideology that is [B]apolitical[/B]. The "opposite" of Nazi is [I]Philanthropy[/I]. I'm being honest with you so be honest with me right here: Are you just shitposting, are you trolling, or do you get your news exclusively from Alex Jones and Fox News? I've heard people say 'the DNC is unable to relate to the common folk' and, sure, there's some truth to that. But to just say [U]the whole left[/U] is like that? Like, all of it? ALL of it? Come on.

[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52850512]Yes, but I don't really agree with it being such a casual 'step 1' -> 'step 2' -> 'step 3'. There's more barriers to that here than are being stated - at least for most people. Trust, especially in the beginning stages of any relationship, is hard-won and easily lost.[/QUOTE] Yea, that's why political ideologues try to work their way into existing social groups like online message boards so they can be like "Hey fellow young people, we're just like you". [video=youtube;M7lNBMGmGF0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7lNBMGmGF0[/video] That's what people like Milo did with GamerGate, for example. You can see it very transparently, [url=https://storify.com/x_glitch/the-gamergate-supporting-journalist-who-hates-game]the exact moment when Yiannopoulos shifted from calling people who play video games ugly, disgusting virgins and using them as a scapegoat[/url] to [url=https://storify.com/x_glitch/the-gamergate-supporting-journalist-who-hates-game]suddenly loving them[/url]. Likewise, it's advantageous for them to attempt to discredit existing social institutions like mainstream media outlets, to further isolate and stigmatize potential recruits against sources that may cause them to realize the fragility of their rhetoric. [editline]3rd November 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Guriosity;52850508]The big problem with the left is their inability to relate to common folk and their inability to self reflect. Both are weaknesses the alt right are using against you. So by trying to convince me the everyday Joe to join the left the sooner you can craft your message to save such people before the Nazis get ahold of them.[/QUOTE] I believe it's already been mentioned, but you're implying that the opposite of "left" is "nazi", which is grossely inaccurate as the vast majority of "right" or conservatively-minded people are not nazis. Also, didn't you just prove that 'everday Joe' isn't able to be turned into a nazi with this post?: [QUOTE=Guriosity;52850468]Umm I'm not interested in being a racist. Get the fuck off my porch before I call the cops.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Firgof Umbra;52850512]Yes, but I don't really agree with it being such a casual 'step 1' -> 'step 2' -> 'step 3'. There's more barriers to that here than are being stated - at least for most people. Trust, especially in the beginning stages of any relationship, is hard-won and easily lost. I... wow. No. That has nothing to do with anything. The opposite of Nazi is not 'the left'. Nor does 'the left have an inability to relate to the common folk' wtf. Independents are not 'more predisposed' to become Nazis than anyone on the left. Progressives are not necessarily less predisposed to become Nazis either. You're conflating political ideology with an ideology that is [B]apolitical[/B]. I'm being honest with you so be honest with me right here: Are you just shitposting, are you trolling, or do you get your news exclusively from Alex Jones and Fox News? I've heard people say 'the DNC is unable to relate to the common folk' and, sure, there's some truth to that. But to just say [U]the whole left[/U] is like that? Like, all of it? ALL of it? Come on.[/QUOTE] Welp I tried to help you. Seems like you don't want to learn. Keep this attitude and I assure you will lose. For example this right here: [QUOTE]. m being honest with you so be honest with me right here: Are you just shitposting, are you trolling, or do you get your news exclusively from Alex Jones and Fox News [/QUOTE] is seen as disrespectful and demeaning. Rest of it is seen as smug holier then thou insulting and uncaring. The white nationalist message is simple. The establishment wants to kill you cause of skin color. This message is further re enforced by the behavior of those whom the alt right criticize. The name of game is getting more of the unaligned on your side. Which means learning how to better communicate. If you can't explain to Joe blow who only care about football and screwing his girlfriend why Nazis are such a big deal then you ain't going to beat the alt right.

[QUOTE=Guriosity;52850540] If you can't explain to Joe blow who [b]only care about football and screwing his girlfriend[/b] why Nazis are such a big deal then you ain't going to beat the alt right.[/QUOTE] Ah yes, the "average joe" who sounds like a made up stereotype: [video=youtube;VokYv274fVM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VokYv274fVM[/video]

This is obviously /pol/ shit that doesn't have a place on a university in the US, but I actually think it holds merit in some places. I've worked at two elementary schools where Swedes talk with fake accents and tan to fit in. It might seem ridiculous to many of you but you will get shunned simply for being white and a "svenne". One of the jobs I've worked was as a homework helper for a big organisation called Stiftelsen Läxhjälpen in the town I'm currently studying in. While I worked they had special events where white cis men (we're talking 12 - 15 year old kids) were not allowed to participate. Also, during my training when another helper from an immigrant dense part of Sweden asked about how to handle the kids who won't respect us because of our color (this happened on several occasions later) he got personally attacked by our trainer and we got called out for being privileged. I'm fucking raised in a shitty area in Malmö (the worst part of Sweden) and he was from the streets of Gothenburg. We (white men) are actually structurally oppressed in some ways in this country and if we comment on it we are called whiners and told to suck it up. IMO this is something that has become more and more of a problem in the last 10 years and we should really do something about it now before it blows up even more. I actually had 14 year old kids who said they hated me for being a white man when I told them to be quiet and stuff.

Swedish problems are not American problems. Different cultures, different mixes of ethnicities, different social issues. Racism is racism is the only link there.

[QUOTE=Guriosity;52850508]The big problem with the left is their inability to relate to common folk and their inability to self reflect. Both are weaknesses the alt right are using against you. So by trying to convince me the everyday Joe to join the left the sooner you can craft your message to save such people before the Nazis get ahold of them.[/QUOTE] You're making a huge mistake in false equivocating American DNC Democrats with leftist ideology. They are by and large NOT the same thing. Sanders' entire platform was purely leftist and [B]f[/B][B]ocused on wealth inequality, providing healthcare, and establishing a living wage for all Americans. [/B][url]https://berniesanders.com/issues/[/url] Since you believe our political discourse boils down to these millions of apathetic 'common men', then why wasn't every small town in the Rust belt just booming for Sanders?

[QUOTE=Guriosity;52849964]Well said. What I am saying is don't play along with the Nazis game. Want the best way to counter this? Form relationships with the unaligned and help them. Woo them to your side before the Nazis woo them. [/QUOTE] Yeah a nobel cause but imo ultimately a sisyphean and fruitless labour of tremendous effort. It's ceases to be a rational battle of ideologies and becomes an uphill struggle. In the blue corner there's you, the prefrontal cortex which is the logic part of the brain, it's also fairly slow and expensive to use. In the red corner you have a gruesome twosome. Amygdala: aggressive, fast, primal and savage jumps at the unknown and reacts strongly to perceived threats. This is the lizard brain the animal brain that gives you a rush of adrenalin when a bush rustles. The script: An aggregate of past experiences, patterns you've formed and preconceived notions. This is the part that the Nazis will fall upon when they repeat rhetoric they've heard or hold their biases. Fairly quick and cheap to use also it feels like "the gut" so people trust it. Then atop that pile, add resources like the library of hate, you refute one taking point and 3 more are copy pasted, it becomes a whack a mole, but instead of a simple whack of a hammer its a 15 minute investigation into where the phony stats came from and/or why they're not relevant. Then to top it off you have the conditioning, the groups and communities condition their members. This means the members won't trust sources from outside the group (FAKE NEWS! LIEBRUL MEDIA!) and keep they are conditioned, through fear of ostracism, to not question the narrative. Ye I've tried talking alt right peeps over, a dear friend of mine is pretty far gone and I can't bring him back. It doesn't work. And that's just one guy, who I know. Shit like sargon, stephan moleneux, varg, black pigeon, golden one have brainwashed him over the years. He legit believed that Europeans and Africans are a different species and that Jews orcastrated ww2. I'm hoping that he finds a liberal gf infront of whom he'll be reluctant to air his views and hopefully over time he'll heal. It ceases to be a fight against Nazism ad becomes a fight against human nature, reason goes out the window and the amygdala steps it's way into the ring. "it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled" [QUOTE] Throwing triggerly puff tantrums and consider everything sexist and racist isn't going do the left any favors.[/QUOTE] Good start to that rational and pleasant discourse plan! [editline]3rd November 2017[/editline] We've got a safe word for political talk now, when it gets too much I say "carpet" and we change topic to something less... Esoteric

[QUOTE=Zyler;52850506]That's what I was saying, people who buy into rhetoric were already leaning towards the existing logic of some conclusion that feeds into the rhetoric of white supremacy or whatever else.[/QUOTE] Let's not forget one of the biggest issues with people appealing to identity politics; People who are not very intelligent, or who lack a strong sense of identity, or who feel insecure, are [I]very[/I] likely to become self-identified with these beliefs. They feel as if anything that disagrees with these ideas is effectively an attack on themselves, leading to them essentially mentally blocking out anything that disagrees with a viewpoint once they have it. Unfortunately with the whole alt-right movement, once these people have these beliefs they're instantly galvanized by the insanely aggressive onslaught from the left, which drives them to only share their politics among themselves, which has been proven to make beliefs more extreme. It's a personal positive feedback loop having gasoline thrown on it by a much larger societal positive feedback loop.

[QUOTE=meppers;52848298]a smart person once said "if a group of people pretend to be retarded around each other as a joke, eventually actual retards will join the group thinking they're in good company." this is a textbook definition of what happened to /pol/. they aren't joking about this anymore.[/QUOTE] Exactly. Same thing happened to T_D on reddit. They start off as people being ironically racist, taking on the character of these kinds of people, then the real arseholes come out the woodwork and make that place their own, replacing the originals