225-year-old Columbus monument vandalized in Baltimore - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;52603714]Wow, what? The fuck did Teddy do?[/QUOTE] He was a Republican, nothing more. They don't care he strengthened federal economic laws, busted big corporation monopolies or created conservation parks for wildlife. He named himself a Republican and that alone is enough. these people forget the parties switched and have no knowledge of actual history, they just want to wreck things.

[QUOTE=Zero-Point;52603714]Wow, what? The fuck did Teddy do?[/QUOTE] Support of American imperialism and pretty blatant racism. Granted, I think he had some really admirable domestic economic policies but he did some pretty bad shit too. [editline]23rd August 2017[/editline] Defacing Lincoln is uncalled for though. Even fucking Fidel Castro admired him, he's pretty much the universal symbol of liberty, although that may be more due to his legacy than his actual presidency.

[QUOTE=-nesto-;52604552]They already vandalized the Lincoln monument in DC. Washington's will prolly be defaced next.[/QUOTE] Okay that doesn't even make sense. [I]the dude freed the slaves.[/I]

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;52604856]Okay that doesn't even make sense. [I]the dude freed the slaves.[/I][/QUOTE] People will always try to find a way to twist it, such as him founding a corrupted nation or just being white. At some point, this all just seems like a cover for people act like hooligans.

This isn't even about politics anymore, this is just petty vandalism.

[QUOTE=-nesto-;52604552]They already vandalized the Lincoln monument in DC. Washington's will prolly be defaced next.[/QUOTE] Who's "they"?

[QUOTE=Raidyr;52605017]Who's "they"?[/QUOTE] The people going around with the casus belli to destroy stuff because some white supremacist killed people.

[QUOTE=-nesto-;52604552]They already vandalized the Lincoln monument in DC. Washington's will prolly be defaced next.[/QUOTE] I haven't seen that, do you have a link to the story?

[QUOTE=BelatedGamer;52605363]I haven't seen that, do you have a link to the story?[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/08/15/lincoln-memorial-defaced-with-explicit-graffiti.html"]I found the story[/URL] but nothing about the perpetrators.

[QUOTE=RedBaronFlyer;52605069]The people going around with the casus belli to destroy stuff because some white supremacist killed people.[/QUOTE] Wouldn't it be the white supremacists who are motivated to deface the lincoln memorial?

[QUOTE=proboardslol;52605410]Wouldn't it be the white supremacists who are motivated to deface the lincoln memorial?[/QUOTE] Depends, it is far more likely, but there is a contingent of people who think Lincoln was very racist based off several quotes Lincoln made on White and Black people mixing in society and his quotes on freeing the slaves to just save the Union. [quote=Charleston Debate, 1858]"I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races, that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality."[/quote] [quote=Letter to Horace Greeley, 1862] "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; "[/quote] Commonly used quotes for this argument. Something I saw passed around when this story broke: [t]https://bluelivesmatter.blue/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/abraham-lincoln-racist-2.jpg[/t] Something like this is the train of thought. You can find some other examples, but probably a tiny amount of people who are like this. Either way, the perpetrators aren't known yet and it would be silly to try to imply motive right now.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52603222] [URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/225-year-old-columbus-monument-vandalized-in-baltimore/2017/08/21/7b1cc852-86a6-11e7-96a7-d178cf3524eb_story.html[/URL] Even if you hate Columbus, this is literally destroying a piece of history.[/QUOTE] In my view, there's not enough historical significance in his story to have a statue of him.

[QUOTE=space1;52605692]He's not historically significant at all[/QUOTE] What?

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;52603258]Columbus was literally no different than any other man of his time. And regardless if the Vikings discovered America first, Columbus's voyage indisputably changed history for both the Americas and Europe far more than any Norsemen did.[/QUOTE] I seem to remember that Columbus was specifically an asshole [I]even for his time[/I] which makes him a pretty massive asshole by modern standards. He was a greedy, incompetent dimwit and no one liked him at the time to the point where the Spanish crown (which iirc he more or less had to beg to finance his expeditions to begin with). They actually found ancient reports back in 2006 that stated the motherfucker was fond of extreme punishment for the most petty crimes from theft to insults. Pretty sure humiliating, mutilating and enslaving random people for saying mean things about you wasn't too common at the time, and the crown was also pretty sure of that since they gave him the boot and basically had him fuck off to prison as soon as he set foot on solid ground. His fame and presence in history are more or less due to a massive misunderstanding and a loss of some key information throughout history which have since been recovered, meaning it would be about time to quietly phase him out of that sphere of glorified historical figures and leave him to museums where he will be described as a monumental failure of a person.

[QUOTE=space1;52605692]He's not historically significant at alll, if anything he died a failure.[/QUOTE] Columbus is hugely significant, and a huge, shitty cunt. Of fucking course he's not the first European to discover America or prove the earth is round*, but he was the first to rediscover it at a time where there was serious interest and means of expansion towards it, prompting the whole new-world rush of the 1500s and forth. *How the 'proved the earth is round' myth started I have no idea. If anything, sailing west to find India, and then finding America would be a strong argument for a flat earth. Also no one believed the earth wasn't round, Columbus simply mis-calculated the size massively, in spite of some old greek fucker getting it right two millenia earlier, using only a pair of fucking sticks. Because Columbus was denser than a bag of hammers. I mean seriously, who discovers a new continent full of people who are clearly not Indians, and none of what makes India the India he set sail for is in the place he arrived, and [I]still believes it's India?[/I] How fuckin' dumb are you, Christopher? Jesus fucking Christ, man.

[QUOTE=space1;52605692]He's not historically significant at alll, if anything he died a failure.[/QUOTE] If Columbus isn't historically significant, then we have to get rid of A TON of other historical figures.

Columbus was a cunt, but destroying the statue is not the correct way to approach the problem. Simply leaving those protest signs on it as they did at the start, as well as requesting it's removal would be much more effective means. Lots of people still like Columbus and really this kind of thing will just solidify the resolve of people who still (unfortunately) hold him up as an idol.

I love this history revisionist bullshit. I find it hilarious all the facepunchers shocked at this, but letting the robert e lee one slide. The fact of the matter is history is history, and destroying it(in essence) is a terrible thing to do. Might as well write out the holocaust,slavery,famine, and disease from the textbooks while were at it.

[QUOTE=MedicWine;52603753]Have you seen the movie Law Abiding Citizen? This is kind of like that, except imagine that instead of the rapists getting to walk, they never even get arrested in the first place. I've literally been at this post for hours trying to explain it, but I can't. You just have to understand that there parts of this country where (many) groups of people that have it [I]unreasonably[/I] bad and have had it proven to them that there is no hope for a change. Everybody has a breaking point, and when you reach yours it's important that you react in the right manner. I think it's ignorant to pretend that the people angrily vandalizing these statues are people that sat down and [I]decided[/I] to vandalize statues. I think these are people that are [I]exactly[/I] as fueled up as the people we saw in Virginia but instead of attacking their enemies bodies they're attacking non-living representations. It's not helpful but damn is it the least destructive way to destroy something.[/QUOTE] You could make this exact same argument about the guy that drove his car into a crowd of protesters. Don't be the type of person that sees Law Abiding Citizen or God Bless America and think "Yes! This is a reasonable response to the problems these people face!"

[QUOTE=Riller;52605812]Columbus is hugely significant, and a huge, shitty cunt. Of fucking course he's not the first European to discover America or prove the earth is round*, but he was the first to rediscover it at a time where there was serious interest and means of expansion towards it, prompting the whole new-world rush of the 1500s and forth. *How the 'proved the earth is round' myth started I have no idea. If anything, sailing west to find India, and then finding America would be a strong argument for a flat earth. Also no one believed the earth wasn't round, Columbus simply mis-calculated the size massively, in spite of some old greek fucker getting it right two millenia earlier, using only a pair of fucking sticks. [b]Because Columbus was denser than a bag of hammers. I mean seriously, who discovers a new continent full of people who are clearly not Indians, and none of what makes India the India he set sail for is in the place he arrived, and [I]still believes it's India?[/I] How fuckin' dumb are you, Christopher? Jesus fucking Christ, man.[/b][/QUOTE] It's almost like he had spent most of his working life navigating the Mediterranean Sea and European waters, hadn't traveled further north than (possibly) Iceland and further south than West Africa at a time when making trips around the Horn of Africa to India was like going to the moon, and was exploring completely unfamiliar territory using incorrect cartographic manuscripts drawn up by scholars who didn't know what units of distance the Ancient Greeks were using when they calculated the exact size of the earth more than a thousand years prior... Let's get something straight: Columbus was a brilliant navigator, sailor, and explorer. The fact that he was a brutal colonial governor is a separate issue that does not detract from the fact that what he did was unprecedented; he went (to the Americas), he came back (to Europe), and he ultimately established the relationship between the New World and the Old. He was [i]not[/i] an idiot by any means.

[QUOTE=Riller;52605812]Columbus is hugely significant, and a huge, shitty cunt. Of fucking course he's not the first European to discover America or prove the earth is round*, but he was the first to rediscover it at a time where there was serious interest and means of expansion towards it, prompting the whole new-world rush of the 1500s and forth. *How the 'proved the earth is round' myth started I have no idea. If anything, sailing west to find India, and then finding America would be a strong argument for a flat earth. Also no one believed the earth wasn't round, Columbus simply mis-calculated the size massively, in spite of some old greek fucker getting it right two millenia earlier, using only a pair of fucking sticks. Because Columbus was denser than a bag of hammers. I mean seriously, who discovers a new continent full of people who are clearly not Indians, and none of what makes India the India he set sail for is in the place he arrived, and [I]still believes it's India?[/I] How fuckin' dumb are you, Christopher? Jesus fucking Christ, man.[/QUOTE] The only historical significance of Christopher Columbus is his incompetence. Infact, he did not rediscover America, he stayed on Cuba, and governed a colony on Hispaniola. The correct explorer you are looking for; [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci[/URL]

[QUOTE=hypno-toad;52606158]Columbus was a cunt, but destroying the statue is not the correct way to approach the problem. Simply leaving those protest signs on it as they did at the start, as well as requesting it's removal would be much more effective means. Lots of people still like Columbus and really this kind of thing will just solidify the resolve of people who still (unfortunately) hold him up as an idol.[/QUOTE] At the point where a statue or monument or building or anything man-made at all has stood for 225 years, it's time to preserve it for good and let it be. This obelisk is almost as old as the United States. There is [I]no[/I] valid reason to move it, remove it, destroy it, vandalize it, or otherwise deface or diminish it. Most [I]things[/I] cease to be as they were within 50 years of creation, almost all within 100 to 150. Artifacts, especially structures, surviving from the 1700s are extremely uncommon in the US.

[QUOTE=space1;52606233]The only historical significance of Christopher Columbus is his incompetence. Infact, he did not rediscover America, he stayed on Cuba, and governed a colony on Hispaniola. The correct explorer you are looking for; [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci[/URL][/QUOTE] Vespucci didn't have his voyages until after colombus though???

[QUOTE=bdd458;52606276]Vespucci didn't have his voyages until after colombus though???[/QUOTE] that's not the point??? [quote]who first demonstrated that Brazil and the West Indies did not represent Asia's eastern outskirts as initially conjectured from Columbus' voyages, but instead constituted an entirely separate landmass hitherto unknown to people of the Old World.[/quote] Part of the first paragraph. Was that so hard?

I dont know why every time someone does something fucking stupid, we have to open up a textbook and dig to justify it. Its like victim blaming for inanimate objects.

[QUOTE=space1;52606283]that's not the point??? Part of the first paragraph. Was that so hard?[/QUOTE] Your claim is that "you can't say he didn't discover the anericas for europeans at large because of this other voyage he was only on cuba!!!", but that's patently false because colombus still made landfall in the americas prior to that I don't know a whole lot about Amergio's voyages, but I have a gut feeling that they happened when they did [I]because[/I] of colombus

At this point i think it would be beneficial to send these monuments and statues to a museum, It will be at a safer place and we'll still have history (even if it's bad).

[QUOTE=S31-Syntax;52604856]Okay that doesn't even make sense. [I]the dude freed the slaves.[/I][/QUOTE] Abraham Lincoln allowed black men to fight as soldiers on the north side as a military tactic. He did not free the slaves. If anything he was hesitant, and only did it to win a losing war. Ya'll wanna talk about "go do your research" though. Funny. -- I implore you, if you find what I said stupid, go actually read the Emancipation Proclamation, not just the wikipedia summary.

[QUOTE=bdd458;52606359]Your claim is that "you can't say he didn't discover the anericas for europeans at large because of this other voyage he was only on cuba!!!", but that's patently false because colombus still made landfall in the americas prior to that I don't know a whole lot about Amergio's voyages, but I have a gut feeling that they happened when they did [I]because[/I] of colombus[/QUOTE] The only time he ever set foot in "America", was when he set foot in central America. He was lost and terrified, stranded at sea in a hurricane, and then nearly was done in by the natives in battle.

[QUOTE=grob;52606439]Abraham Lincoln allowed black men to fight as soldiers on the north side as a military tactic. He did not free the slaves. If anything he was hesitant, and only did it to win a losing war. Ya'll wanna talk about "go do your research" though. Funny. -- I implore you, if you find what I said stupid, go actually read the Emancipation Proclamation, not just the wikipedia summary.[/QUOTE] he did more than just the emancipation proclamation. he worked heavily to get the necessary amount of votes to bring the thirteenth amendment to pass. hell, he even signed and approved the amendment despite such not being required for the ratification of a constitutional amendment.