US accuses Fiat Chrysler of using emission testing defeat devices - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;52270702]Pretty sure the clouds of black smoke that are big enough to look like Wacky Races weapons do more harm than the usual smoke coming out of a petrol car.[/QUOTE] Soot is unburnt fuel and is heavier than air. It settles to the ground and becomes soil. So no, it is not worse for the enviroment no matter how big the cloud is [editline]24th May 2017[/editline] Just because it "LOOKS" bad doesn't mean it is bad. Visible polution does not make it any worse or better than invisible polution

[QUOTE=Valon Kyre;52270714]Soot is unburnt fuel and is heavier than air. It settles to the ground and becomes soil. So no, it is not worse for the enviroment no matter how big the cloud is [editline]24th May 2017[/editline] Just because it "LOOKS" bad doesn't mean it is bad. Visible polution does not make it any worse or better than invisible polution[/QUOTE] ^^^this^^^ (second part). Steam locos for example are the poster child for "not nessicarily bad" because people see the massive cloud and think "o shit look at that smoke" when a massive percentage of it is actually steam.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52269511]Not everywhere. Cats suck power and choke the exhaust note. You usually do it as a cheap way to improve the sound of your exhaust, but it looks like this dweeb did it just to stick it to them dadgum environmentalists. Yay pollution!!! :downs: It's one thing to do it for performance/sound, another entirely to do it just to spite people by intentionally polluting more. I have an F250 with no cats, but I'm not just [I]trying[/I] to pollute.[/QUOTE] Pretty sure the feds have rules on it even if not all states do vehicle emission tests

[QUOTE=Valon Kyre;52270634]Hur dur they blow the black smoke so dey must be bad for da enviroment On average diesels polute far less than gas vehicles, and on top of that consistently get better fuel mileage. So, less burnt fuel = less pollution. Diesel fuel also requires less energy for refining. The only bad side is they emit for nitrogen, but that said they emit less CO2, CO, and hydrocarbons. They also dont need to run off diesel, you can use used engine oil, or vegetable oil among many others. The engines rev lower so they last far longer than conventional gas engines as well, leading to longer vehicle life.[/QUOTE] Are you retarded or something? I said human health specifically. It's well documented that diesels are FAR WORSE for human health petrol vehicles. Not only is the nitrogen oxide terrible for you, the black particulate matter is also hazardous. "Diesel exhaust is a Group 1 carcinogen, which causes lung cancer and has a positive association with bladder cancer" Just google the shit you spew before you come on here and talk bullshit because "yeehaww diesels trucks" There are plenty of studies with the health risks of diesel exhaust it's easy to find, just do yourself a favour and educate yourself before being a dumbass. .

Diesel emissions are responsible for 12,000 deaths a year in the UK alone according to the EEA. [url]https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/23/uk-has-second-highest-number-of-deaths-from-no2-pollution-in-europe[/url]

[QUOTE=TestECull;52269687]Comeon now, throw some new ones in. Modern high flow cata sap at most half a horsepower from your engine. Literally no reason not to use them. And that coming from someone apathetic and indifferent to the evironment...come on now. [editline]24th May 2017[/editline] If half a horsepower is enough to warrant punching the cats....its anecdotal I know, but my truck actually runs worse if I run catless. I have fuck all top end and a shitty idle if I dont have a cat in the system. Harder starts too. Your engine's output fluctuates more from the ambient temp/air density than the gains from punching the cats. Its pointless. Modern cats flow so well the engine wont be any worse off for it, and some run better with one.[/QUOTE] Where is this half a horsepower thing coming from? Unless i wanna pay 500 for a high flow cat, I can knock out my existing ones and get a catalytic test pipe installed for like 20 bucks at a muffler shop.

[QUOTE=ThurnisHaley;52272030]Where is this half a horsepower thing coming from? Unless i wanna pay 500 for a high flow cat, I can knock out my existing ones and get a catalytic test pipe installed for like 20 bucks at a muffler shop.[/QUOTE] And break federal and more than likely state law in the process. Sounds great. If you are found guilty of intentfully disabling emissions control devices your manufacturer provides then really you should be banned from owning anything but a zero emissions vehicle. If you aren't smart enough to comply with the law then your privilege to own a car capable of producing emissions that harm other people, and the environment should be removed.

[QUOTE=Morgen;52269488]Why? Isn't that illegal?[/QUOTE] More vroom

[QUOTE=evilweazel;52269828]I mean if by shit cars in every category you mean having the best minivans, fullsize sedans, and VERY competitive crossovers and trucks, yeah, I guess :v: But hey why not spout 90s meems that died in 2002!!!![/QUOTE] Chrysler has for the past twenty years sat pretty consistently at the bottom end of reliability reports. Pick up a Consumer Reports and go to Dodge or Jeep and it's a [I]sea[/I] of black dots.

[QUOTE=Morgen;52272062]And break federal and more than likely state law in the process. Sounds great. If you are found guilty of intentfully disabling emissions control devices your manufacturer provides then really you should be banned from owning anything but a zero emissions vehicle. If you aren't smart enough to comply with the law then your privilege to own a car capable of producing emissions that harm other people, and the environment should be removed.[/QUOTE] In a state without vehicle inspections? Im just telling you why people do them, there is basically a 0% chance they will get caught, and they can improve sound and performance without wasting too much money.

[QUOTE=evilweazel;52269828]I mean if by shit cars in every category you mean having the best minivans, fullsize sedans, and VERY competitive crossovers and trucks, yeah, I guess :v: But hey why not spout 90s meems that died in 2002!!!![/QUOTE] explains why they're sold all over the world right? Everyone wants them because they're so good! Modern American cars are generally mediocre at best when you compare them to say, their Japanese counterparts

[QUOTE=Morgen;52270223][url]https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/documents/exhsysrepair.pdf[/url] Though a bit hard to enforce I guess.[/QUOTE] Yep. Fucking sucks here in Australia, every second diesel has the cat removed or poked through. Love huffing carcinogens and particulates that can fuck your lungs, heart etc. Have my air vent open for some fresh air for 5 seconds, turn a corner and bam, someone is blasting shit out of their exhaust everywhere. People hate smokers for smoking in public, but where is the hate for diesels that don't have working cats? It's way worse for your health than second hand smoke out on the street.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52269511]Not everywhere. Cats suck power and choke the exhaust note. You usually do it as a cheap way to improve the sound of your exhaust, but it looks like this dweeb did it just to stick it to them dadgum environmentalists. Yay pollution!!! :downs: It's one thing to do it for performance/sound, another entirely to do it just to spite people by intentionally polluting more. I have an F250 with no cats, but I'm not just [I]trying[/I] to pollute.[/QUOTE] your cat isnt killing your performance by any noticable amount, your pod filter doesn't add 25 kw dont punch your cat. [editline]25th May 2017[/editline] Removing the cat from your car is the dumbest mod you can do Its a decent chunk of effort for literally, literally, unnoticeable gains and taking a massive dump on your own lungs. saying you feel more power after removing the cat is 100% placebo unless your car runs really rich and you melted your cat into a plug. If you're the type of dude to remove your cat you are probably also dumb enough to run a boost tee or some other shit to make your car run rich though, so maybe actually you did get a noticeable difference. You're still a dumbass in that situation.

yall talking about dpfs right, diesel cats don't do much as gas cars.. different types of emissions

[QUOTE=mokkan;52272537]your cat isnt killing your performance by any noticable amount, your pod filter doesn't add 25 kw dont punch your cat. [editline]25th May 2017[/editline] Removing the cat from your car is the dumbest mod you can do Its a decent chunk of effort for literally, literally, unnoticeable gains and taking a massive dump on your own lungs. saying you feel more power after removing the cat is 100% placebo unless your car runs really rich and you melted your cat into a plug. If you're the type of dude to remove your cat you are probably also dumb enough to run a boost tee or some other shit to make your car run rich though, so maybe actually you did get a noticeable difference. You're still a dumbass in that situation.[/QUOTE] Depends on the situation. On a stock vehicle? not worth it. When I had my Mustang GT, I ran a catless offroad x-pipe because I had long tube headers and an upgraded cam, which meant that I needed the flow to increase the scavenging effect. Adding in cats would have decreased my power. But we're talking about a highly modified car. Now on either of my F-150s, I never ran without a cat except for that time one got plugged after a coil pack went out, and I didn't have the money to buy new ones right away. But even then, I got new ones like 2 weeks later.

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52269761]The F250 is a '78. The cats on 70s Fords suck power through a straw and it's already gutless so anything extra helps. It's bad. I wouldn't pull the cats off a modern car/truck, since manufacturers have figured out how to make them work since 1978.[/QUOTE] The original cat my '85 had was also a choker. But here's the rub: You wont buy one of those anymore. My $250 Magnaflow hi perf cat flows so well its ridiculous, costs less than the OEM replacement, and cleans better. Last sniff test my truck had, two months ago, was 50ppm HC, 0.6% NOx, on an engine with 320k miles, a wonky carb, bad ignition timing, and zero other emissions controls active. Get new ones on that 78. The ones you buy now are the same as the ones on new cars.

Can confirm Fiat Chrysler is a steam pile of doo. I used to own a 2006 charger, not only did it pass E with flying colors every time but the damn thing needed replacement parts on it literally every single year. Chrysler is known for having immensely terrible suspension and I can also confirm that. What a pain in the ass that thing was, I'll never buy another Fiat Chrysler car.

[QUOTE=TestECull;52273256]The original cat my '85 had was also a choker. But here's the rub: You wont buy one of those anymore. My $250 Magnaflow hi perf cat flows so well its ridiculous, costs less than the OEM replacement, and cleans better. Last sniff test my truck had, two months ago, was 50ppm HC, 0.6% NOx, on an engine with 320k miles, a wonky carb, bad ignition timing, and zero other emissions controls active. Get new ones on that 78. The ones you buy now are the same as the ones on new cars.[/QUOTE] If I ever start using the truck seriously again it's getting new cats along with a ton of other improvements. It really needs a whole new exhaust system but the truck is pretty rough right now and I have another project that deserves the attention more. [t]http://i.imgur.com/UYYmXeH.jpg[/t]

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52273431]If I ever start using the truck seriously again it's getting new cats along with a ton of other improvements. It really needs a whole new exhaust system but the truck is pretty rough right now and I have another project that deserves the attention more. [t]http://i.imgur.com/UYYmXeH.jpg[/t][/QUOTE] It has aged about as well as mine has. They're soldiers, no doubt about it.

[QUOTE=Valon Kyre;52270714]Soot is unburnt fuel and is heavier than air. It settles to the ground and becomes soil. So no, it is not worse for the enviroment no matter how big the cloud is [editline]24th May 2017[/editline] Just because it "LOOKS" bad doesn't mean it is bad. Visible polution does not make it any worse or better than invisible polution[/QUOTE] I'm pretty fucking sure the clouds of smoke that are always 3x bigger than their gas counterparts coming from decat or just plain old diesels are WAY worse than the "invisible" polution you're talking about. And FYI, that soot that settles to the ground is cancerigenous as fuck. Before settling to the ground as you say, you'll probably breathe it enough to contribute to your hasted demise. [editline]25th May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=LAMB SAUCE;52272409]Yep. Fucking sucks here in Australia, every second diesel has the cat removed or poked through. Love huffing carcinogens and particulates that can fuck your lungs, heart etc. Have my air vent open for some fresh air for 5 seconds, turn a corner and bam, someone is blasting shit out of their exhaust everywhere. People hate smokers for smoking in public, but where is the hate for diesels that don't have working cats? It's way worse for your health than second hand smoke out on the street.[/QUOTE] Every now and then, I get some guy on the highway pulling right next to me, reeling me into a race, and every now and then, its a diesel that blocks out my whole windscreen with smoke. Truth be told, I run a diesel aswell, and I'm probably gonna get another diesel when this goes out since I do a good few miles every day and its just cheaper to run (for now), but I'll never decat or tune it for more hp since it might fuck up its emissions, and it will probably strain it in a few spots. [editline]25th May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Jaehead;52273081]yall talking about dpfs right, diesel cats don't do much as gas cars.. different types of emissions[/QUOTE] cat removal in petrol cars does a lot iirc

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52273224]Depends on the situation. On a stock vehicle? not worth it. When I had my Mustang GT, I ran a catless offroad x-pipe because I had long tube headers and an upgraded cam, which meant that I needed the flow to increase the scavenging effect. Adding in cats would have decreased my power. But we're talking about a highly modified car. Now on either of my F-150s, I never ran without a cat except for that time one got plugged after a coil pack went out, and I didn't have the money to buy new ones right away. But even then, I got new ones like 2 weeks later.[/QUOTE] It's weird how openly people will just admit to removing a piece of their car that drastically lowers its pollution solely for the purpose of going faster.

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;52274469]I'm pretty fucking sure the clouds of smoke that are always 3x bigger than their gas counterparts coming from decat or just plain old diesels are WAY worse than the "invisible" polution you're talking about. And FYI, that soot that settles to the ground is cancerigenous as fuck. Before settling to the ground as you say, you'll probably breathe it enough to contribute to your hasted demise. [editline]25th May 2017[/editline] Every now and then, I get some guy on the highway pulling right next to me, reeling me into a race, and every now and then, its a diesel that blocks out my whole windscreen with smoke. Truth be told, I run a diesel aswell, and I'm probably gonna get another diesel when this goes out since I do a good few miles every day and its just cheaper to run (for now), but I'll never decat or tune it for more hp since it might fuck up its emissions, and it will probably strain it in a few spots. [editline]25th May 2017[/editline] cat removal in petrol cars does a lot iirc[/QUOTE] You can smell when a car has had its cat(s) removed, the most noticeable change is smelling unburnt gas, though cars that run like hell with cats intact will have that smell too

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;52274469]I'm pretty fucking sure the clouds of smoke that are always 3x bigger than their gas counterparts coming from decat or just plain old diesels are WAY worse than the "invisible" polution you're talking about. And FYI, that soot that settles to the ground is cancerigenous as fuck. Before settling to the ground as you say, you'll probably breathe it enough to contribute to your hasted demise. [editline]25th May 2017[/editline] Every now and then, I get some guy on the highway pulling right next to me, reeling me into a race, and every now and then, its a diesel that blocks out my whole windscreen with smoke. Truth be told, I run a diesel aswell, and I'm probably gonna get another diesel when this goes out since I do a good few miles every day and its just cheaper to run (for now), but I'll never decat or tune it for more hp since it might fuck up its emissions, and it will probably strain it in a few spots. [editline]25th May 2017[/editline] cat removal in petrol cars does a lot iirc[/QUOTE] Diesels give the impression of being dirtier but they really do pollute less. Gas vapors are invisible killers; just because you can [I]see[/I] the diesel exhaust doesn't mean it's worse. A relatable comparison: would you rather breathe invisible cyanide gas or the black smoke from burning wood? Or how about this: [img]http://i.imgur.com/8zI186d.jpg[/img] Looks pretty bad, right? But it's far less polluting than even a clean burning diesel of the same scale. And if you made a gas engine that size you'd be the single biggest polluter for miles around. All fossil fuels are bad for the environment but don't assume just because you can see the smoke that its long term effects are worse. People did that for years - that's part of why the American consumer market largely rejected diesel cars - and now we've got a serious pollution crisis on our hands.

[QUOTE=AugustBurnsRed;52274683]You can smell when a car has had its cat(s) removed, the most noticeable change is smelling unburnt gas, though cars that run like hell with cats intact will have that smell too[/QUOTE] We can just hear it. It'll sound a little lounder than usual, right? [editline]25th May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Grenadiac;52274753]Diesels give the impression of being dirtier but they really do pollute less. Gas vapors are invisible killers; just because you can [I]see[/I] the diesel exhaust doesn't mean it's worse. A relatable comparison: would you rather breathe invisible cyanide gas or the black smoke from burning wood? Or how about this: [img]http://i.imgur.com/8zI186d.jpg[/img] Looks pretty bad, right? But it's far less polluting than even a clean burning diesel of the same scale. And if you made a gas engine that size you'd be the single biggest polluter for miles around. All fossil fuels are bad for the environment but don't assume just because you can see the smoke that its long term effects are worse. People did that for years - that's part of why the American consumer market largely rejected diesel cars - and now we've got a serious pollution crisis on our hands.[/QUOTE] But I know diesels don't burn wood and put out a lot of NOx, and to add up to that, its easy to figure out when a diesel has been decated, and even simpler to know when its running bad just because its goddamn old already. It isn't very relatable since its obvious a car wouldn't burn wood, so I might just go for the cyanide over a diesel painting me in black.

[QUOTE=Rocâ„¢;52274802]We can just hear it. It'll sound a little lounder than usual, right?[/QUOTE] Not necessarily, but it often does because the dingus bought or ghetto rigged a racing/sports exhaust kit for their vehicle. Usually these have no muffler or a tubular muffler, and you can buy fake cats online that are just hollow to fool the police if they look under the car. also pro tip: unless your car is turbo'd or supercharged, trying to get more 'free flowing' exhaust (see: cat removals, giant pipes) generally ends up with a net loss of power and efficiency

[QUOTE=geel9;52274669]It's weird how openly people will just admit to removing a piece of their car that drastically lowers its pollution solely for the purpose of going faster.[/QUOTE] Playing the devil's avocado, but on diesels, it just looks silly, with the huge cloud at the back [editline]25th May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=AugustBurnsRed;52274848]Not necessarily, but it often does because the dingus bought or ghetto rigged a racing/sports exhaust kit for their vehicle. Usually these have no muffler or a tubular muffler, and you can buy fake cats online that are just hollow to fool the police if they look under the car. also pro tip: unless your car is turbo'd or supercharged, trying to get more 'free flowing' exhaust (see: cat removals, giant pipes) generally ends up with a net loss of power and efficiency[/QUOTE] That's because it loses compression right?

[QUOTE=geel9;52274669]It's weird how openly people will just admit to removing a piece of their car that drastically lowers its pollution solely for the purpose of going faster.[/QUOTE] I don't see how it's weird. I had one goal in mind with that car: performance. I didn't care about anything else. It also became a pain in the ass when I would go over a speed bump and they would catch on the speedbump and come completely off the headers and get bashed up.

[QUOTE=AugustBurnsRed;52274848]Not necessarily, but it often does because the dingus bought or ghetto rigged a racing/sports exhaust kit for their vehicle. Usually these have no muffler or a tubular muffler, and you can buy fake cats online that are just hollow to fool the police if they look under the car. also pro tip: unless your car is turbo'd or supercharged, trying to get more 'free flowing' exhaust (see: cat removals, giant pipes) generally ends up with a net loss of power and efficiency[/QUOTE] not true.. backpressure is a myth. increased exhaust pressure just means the motor loses work so it could pump the charge air in. how does a supercharged exhaust setup differ from a naturally aspirated car anyway??

[QUOTE=ThurnisHaley;52272030]Where is this half a horsepower thing coming from? Unless i wanna pay 500 for a high flow cat, I can knock out my existing ones and get a catalytic test pipe installed for like 20 bucks at a muffler shop.[/QUOTE] I only spent $250 for a generic 2.25" inlet 2.5" outlet Magnaflow high perf cat. They arent that expensive. All you need to know is the OD of the pipe at either end of the thing and the displacement of your engine to get a high flow cat on the cheap.