'Especially vulnerable areas' increase in Sweden - Sensationalist Headlines

It's getting quite tedious to be honest. We are far from perfect, and there are a couple of things that I wouldn't defend. But I just cannot tolerate the "reports" on the failing Swedish state, taken either out of context, being massively exaggerated, or outright shameless lies.

Instead of certain people being so concerned about other countries that are "failing," how about they turn their attention towards the US and do something about the close-to-failing state here? Sweden and Germany are doing so much better than the US in terms of pretty much everything, from what I hear, while von Fuckstick is screwing things up here.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;52357280]Why didn't you cite your source? [URL="http://ww.rrojasdatabank.info/HDRP_2010_40.pdf"]This is the report[/URL] that picture is from. All it does is take the last five years of trends and project it out 30 years. Hence why the table is "User data" The problem is forecasting HDI is notoriously difficult due to the wide array of interconnected factors and this becomes almost immediately apparent when you look at what happened just five years after this report was commissioned. Since Sweden experienced a slight decrease in the years preceding the study, and countries like Cuba and Greece experienced a small increase, the forecast was that Sweden would continue to plummet while Cuba and Greece would shoot to the top. Lo and behold as early as 2014 arrives and the story is completely different. Greece drops substantially in the rankings while Cuba drops a fair bit as well. As for Sweden, they plummeted from 15th to 12th by 2014 :v:. They are ranked at 14 right now which is still higher than when this study was commissioned.[/QUOTE] We actually plummeted to 8th place on the inequality adjusted HDI 2015, which is below Denmark and fucking horrible. [IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/rixu2qar9e1ef75/chrome_2017-06-14_18-36-08.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Tudd;52357118]There are always statistics you can just cherry pick.[/QUOTE] Buddy you're not exactly innocent on this tidbit here either

A couple years back, I invited an American friend up to spend a weekend in Vancouver seeing the city with me. He had a great time, but we had a pretty cheap hostel in the downtown east side, and this meant going through Gastown to get to the downtown core. While in Gastown, our bus hit a druggie who ran out in front of the bus and we were stuck there for half an hour while the guy was picked up by paramedics and cops to be taken to the hospital, and he was freaking out in the street the whole time as he was in shock and blasted on fuck knows what. We also were approached by a guy on the street offering to sell us a kilogram of cheese that he'd clearly shoplifted straight off a supermarket dairy aisle, and we ran into a homeless guy with blood seeping out of his shoes and leaving bloody prints down the street as he went. Canada is a multicultural society and takes in Syrian refugees as well as other immigrants. Where are the threads of Canada becoming a shithole? We even elected a socialist pretty-boy instead of re-electing a good strong conservative oil man that thinks that global warming's a giggle. US conservative media seems to be focused on Sweden, not Canada. :thinking: P.S. A security guard stopped bloody-shoes guy and called a police officer over to help him get to the hospital for care, right as we came across the guy. P.P.S. All three of these guys were caucasians.

[QUOTE=Maximo13;52358353]I don't really understand why specifically Sweden. I am 100% sure there are better examples for people like Tudd to twist for their own narrative.[/QUOTE] Sweden is an easy target because its government has an already-established reputation of being unsympathetic ideologues in primarily english-speaking countries, which is where the narrative is based. It also has a conveniently high number of reported rapes that can be blamed on refugees.

[QUOTE=Swebonny;52359043]We actually plummeted to 8th place on the inequality adjusted HDI 2015, which is below Denmark and fucking horrible. [IMG]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/rixu2qar9e1ef75/chrome_2017-06-14_18-36-08.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] As an American I can't possibly imagine living in such a hell. My thoughts and prayers are with the Swedish people in these trying times. [editline]14th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Maximo13;52358353]I don't really understand why specifically Sweden. I am 100% sure there are better examples for people like Tudd to twist for their own narrative.[/QUOTE] It's a social democracy that takes in a lot of immigrants and still manages to be a successful state. The right targets Sweden because if they can make it's economic, social, and immigration policies look untenable, they feel like people in the United States or the UK would reject those policies as well. Basically, people like Tudd have a hard time trying to sell people on the benefits of Trump and Republican conservatism, so he tries to set up a scenario where the alternative is made to appear much worse.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;52359299]It's a social democracy that takes in a lot of immigrants and still manages to be a successful state. The right targets Sweden because if they can make it's economic, social, and immigration policies look untenable, they feel like people in the United States or the UK would reject those policies as well. Basically, people like Tudd have a hard time trying to sell people on the benefits of Trump and Republican conservatism, so he tries to set up a scenario where the alternative is made to appear much worse.[/QUOTE] Meanwhile, right next door, Canada didn't deregulate its banks to high hell and we didn't suffer a massive crash in the 2008 financial crisis and rode it out fairly well. Our health care system isn't any worse than the level of care available in the US, and we don't hand our citizens five-figure bills after they get out. We have gay marriage, we're a multicultural society, and we take in more immigrants, per capita, than the US. I guess people are too familiar with Canada, lies about us collapsing into a Muslim shithole wouldn't be believable. We're sorry for being unusable as propaganda. :v:

[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;52355967]Moderators are exclusively recruited from the worst ghettoes and warzones.[/QUOTE] Hello from Ferguson. Roving bands of BLM members have taken over. It's a total No-Go Zone for us white people! Why, just yesterday, I found a discarded chip bag in my yard. Litter! It's anarchy!

[QUOTE=Coyoteze;52358882](Turn on captions) [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_OTj2CGhqA[/media][/QUOTE] We're not "full" but it's still very expensive and we don't have a healthy surplus of housing at the moment. If we want, we can continue accepting lots of people, of course. Since we're not technically full. Also making a sarcastic video while going around the wealthy downtown parts of Stockholm and a small village isn't really representative.

[QUOTE=Raidyr;52357280] The problem is forecasting HDI is notoriously difficult due to the wide array of interconnected factors and this becomes almost immediately apparent when you look at what happened just five years after this report was commissioned. Since Sweden experienced a slight decrease in the years preceding the study, and countries like Cuba and Greece experienced a small increase, the forecast was that Sweden would continue to plummet while Cuba and Greece would shoot to the top. Lo and behold as early as 2014 arrives and the story is completely different. Greece drops substantially in the rankings while Cuba drops a fair bit as well. As for Sweden, they plummeted from 15th to 12th by 2014 :v:. They are ranked at 14 right now which is still higher than when this study was commissioned.[/QUOTE] That is new information to me then. I am happy that Sweden is not falling as predicted. I still think the creation more zones is still concerning though. [editline]14th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Kazumi;52358897]It's getting quite tedious to be honest. We are far from perfect, and there are a couple of things that I wouldn't defend. But I just cannot tolerate the "reports" on the failing Swedish state, taken either out of context, being massively exaggerated, or outright shameless lies.[/QUOTE] Well I personally would still love to visit Sweden and I do realise it is quite a capable country. I just think there are concerning trends that do warrant discussion instead of this laughable dismissal.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52359534] Well I personally would still love to visit Sweden and I do realise it is quite a capable country. [/QUOTE] You probably shouldn't, word on the internet is that things are getting really bad over there.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52359534]That is new information to me then. I am happy that Sweden is not falling as predicted. I still think the creation more zones is still concerning though. [editline]14th June 2017[/editline] Well I personally would still love to visit Sweden and I do realise it is quite a capable country. I just think there are concerning trends that do warrant discussion instead of this laughable dismissal.[/QUOTE] We aren't dismissing anyone willing to discuss what matters. If you wanna discuss immigration then discuss the aspects of Swedish immigration policy that matters instead of the immigrants themselves. Integration is the real deal and it has nothing to do with wether we take in refugees or not, it's what we do with them while here - that's the important discussion and it's being had on all levels.

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;52359618]We aren't dismissing anyone willing to discuss what matters. If you wanna discuss immigration then discuss the aspects of Swedish immigration policy that matters instead of the immigrants themselves. Integration is the real deal and it has nothing to do with wether we take in refugees or not, it's what we do with them while here - that's the important discussion and it's being had on all levels.[/QUOTE] I literally just saw new evidence and changed my mind on a certain aspect. And I am all for talking about integration, but this is the first time we just brought that aspect up. I am generally for it, but not in the current way at all that Sweden is doing it. I think the Germans/Norwegians do a better job in alot of respects.

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;52359618]We aren't dismissing anyone willing to discuss what matters. If you wanna discuss immigration then discuss the aspects of Swedish immigration policy that matters instead of the immigrants themselves. Integration is the real deal and it has nothing to do with wether we take in refugees or not, it's what we do with them while here - that's the important discussion and it's being had on all levels.[/QUOTE] If we can't fix integration and we haven't for a long time, maybe we should decrease the immigration levels until we fix the issues? Just an idea.

[QUOTE=RB33;52359695]If we can't fix integration and we haven't for a long time, maybe we should decrease the immigration levels until we fix the issues? Just an idea.[/QUOTE] They're decreasing on their own as far as I'm aware, the real spike was in 2015/2016. Oh and I don't see why we can't fix it, we have to if do it anyway because the same issues that affect refugees and immigrant also affect the poorer classes of people already here, so it's in our best interest to do so. [editline]14th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Tudd;52359641]I literally just saw new evidence and changed my mind on a certain aspect. And I am all for talking about integration, but this is the first time we just brought that aspect up. I am generally for it, but not in the current way at all that Sweden is doing it. I think the Germans/Norwegians do a better job in alot of respects.[/QUOTE] Sweden has a lot of issues regarding integration that also regards the general social wellbeing of swedish society such as the difficulties in getting a first job, qualification for jobs regarding the 100k open jobs that exist, making less money by working than being on welfare (in certain specific situations), affordable food and housing and taxing the upper classes. These aren't issues that will be solved by kicking immigrants out or refusing to take them, it may help a little short-term but not enough that it's really worth doing.

Sweden stands to gain more from immigration than it has to lose. Revert the trend and you risk a stagnant situation like in Japan, only far accelerated considering Sweden has a population of around 10 million. Sweden has a fifth of its population past retiring age, which presents a huge burden to the welfare state (Far more than the <1% of the population who are refugees or stateless persons), and had negative population growth as early as the 90's. Immigration is necessary to maintain a sustainable growth rate since birth rates are not improving, you need people to replace workers who retire. As a recent immigrant to Sweden I can tell you myself, integration is hard. Learning Swedish takes time, getting to really embrace the traditions and the culture of Sweden also takes time no matter how open minded you are to it, it's not a thing that can be accomplished in a few short years. But I am hopeful that it is doable so long as the Swedish government continues to make it its top priority. As for unemployment, that's not on every field, and Sweden has a very high demand of IT professionals, doctors and teachers it simply cannot fulfil with its domestic supply; I know this because despite only completing Swedish A1 thus far I am working as a programmer, and it wasn't particularly difficult to find a high paying position. This notion that every single immigrant is a burden on the welfare state, or that only refugees are immigrating to Sweden, is entirely untrue.

Yeah I'm pretty sure Germany is glad migrants are coming there because they have an aging population and not enough young active adults to make up for it.

[QUOTE=MrJazzy;52359718]They're decreasing on their own as far as I'm aware, the real spike was in 2015/2016.[/QUOTE] We have had high immigration since before that. [QUOTE]Sweden has a lot of issues regarding integration that also regards the general social wellbeing of swedish society such as the difficulties in getting a first job, qualification for jobs regarding the 100k open jobs that exist, making less money by working than being on welfare (in certain specific situations), affordable food and housing and taxing the upper classes. These aren't issues that will be solved by kicking immigrants out or refusing to take them, it may help a little short-term but not enough that it's really worth doing.[/QUOTE] It's worth doing, integration is a long-term problem. If you keep accepting a large number of immigrants, you will have a hard time improving integration. The ones that improve are simply replaced by new ones.

As demographic transition goes on it's a phenomenon we'll probably observe for a long time too, the farther a country the more declining its population, and they'll have to compensate by taking in migrants from countries with a booming population.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;52359903]Sweden stands to gain more from immigration than it has to lose. Revert the trend and you risk a stagnant situation like in Japan, only far accelerated considering Sweden has a population of around 10 million. Sweden has a fifth of its population past retiring age, which presents a huge burden to the welfare state (Far more than the <1% of the population who are refugees or stateless persons), and had negative population growth as early as the 90's. Immigration is necessary to maintain a sustainable growth rate since birth rates are not improving, you need people to replace workers who retire.[/QUOTE] I did some counting, it requires around 250.000 immigrants to turn around the negative growth based on 2015 stats. For the last couple of years, we've had a surplus immigration of 100.000 a year. We have already turned around the negative growth. So more immigration to compensate is not needed. [QUOTE]Learning Swedish takes time, getting to really embrace the traditions and the culture of Sweden also takes time no matter how open minded you are to it, it's not a thing that can be accomplished in a few short years.[/QUOTE] People can be born here and still not be properly integrated in society 15-20 years later. It's harsh. [QUOTE]This notion that every single immigrant is a burden on the welfare state, or that only refugees are immigrating to Sweden, is entirely untrue.[/QUOTE] Who seriously believes that though? That's misrepresenting the critics.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52359641]I literally just saw new evidence and changed my mind on a certain aspect.[/QUOTE] we really can't take you at your word for this because we know in a few days time you're going to see some other dubious article and mysteriously change your opinion right back.

[QUOTE=kijji;52358910]Instead of certain people being so concerned about other countries that are "failing," how about they turn their attention towards the US and do something about the close-to-failing state here? Sweden and Germany are doing so much better than the US in terms of pretty much everything, from what I hear, while von Fuckstick is screwing things up here.[/QUOTE]Nothing wrong with pointing out things that're wrong with other countries even if one's own is doing worse; conversation here would be rather stale if the US population here, which makes up the majority, had to keep their mouths shut about most every other developed country. It's just that in this particular case the things being pointed out are often exaggerated or outright bollocks. That, and the obsession of certain minority elements of the right with Sweden borders into the weird. [QUOTE=ZombieDawgs;52355988]Then what about Rusty? He was born with a silver spoon up his ass.[/QUOTE]Have you ever had a spoon up your arse? It's really uncomfortable.

Ah, must be the areas with the highest concentration of ethnic Swedes!

[QUOTE=Appleface;52360792]Ah, must be the areas with the highest concentration of ethnic Swedes![/QUOTE] I like that implication that what causes crime it's ethnicity. And of course we see an RB33 agree, because in the end he's just pussyfooting around outright saying that the problem is that the migrants aren't white.

[QUOTE=Big Bang;52361751]I like that implication that what causes crime it's ethnicity. And of course we see an RB33 agree, because in the end he's just pussyfooting around outright saying that the problem is that the migrants aren't white.[/QUOTE] I thought it was funny and sarcastically agreed. But sure believe it's all because of the non-white people.

[QUOTE=RB33;52360405]I did some counting, it requires around 250.000 immigrants to turn around the negative growth based on 2015 stats. For the last couple of years, we've had a surplus immigration of 100.000 a year. We have already turned around the negative growth. So more immigration to compensate is not needed.[/QUOTE] I don't get it, does Sweden need 250,000 people [I]per year[/I] or [I]period[/I] to overturn negative growth? If it's the latter, it's the first time I heard of a flat amount being able to overturn a continuous, uninterrupted negative growth. Could you tell us what you're getting those numbers from?

Hallo from Bavaria, last truly German state. Merkel sure fucked up with all that calling the economic migrants thing! I can't leave the house without wearing the rest of my formerly long hair as a beard and a towel as a turban or the Jihadis would kill me! My jolly, lederhosen-wearing neighbour was killed in an SEK raid, after they found out he was building IEDs and weapons to fight the refugees in his flat!!! I've just about had it up to here with these parasites destroying our genepool and way of life with their subhuman sand people culture!! The government is full of nazis and East German Stasi agents, who want Iranians to rape as many girls as possible, to bring about the rebirth of the Aryan species and even the EU helps with this!!!!! I'm a lowest class citizen in my own country, it's so SAD...

[QUOTE=Appleface;52360792]Ah, must be the areas with the highest concentration of ethnic Swedes![/QUOTE] No, but areas with highest concentration of ethnic Swedes in Stockholm are also the areas where most crimes occur. [editline]15th June 2017[/editline] In this video the dude had a 10 times to 30 times chance to get assaulted based on the areas he was at, compared to the "no-go" zone I live in. [QUOTE=Coyoteze;52358882](Turn on captions) [/QUOTE] Basically, you can't go around pulling such simple conclusions when there's so many variables at play. The keyword is [B]vulnerable[/B]. Of course areas with poorer and less educated population are going to be more vulnerable to criminal gangs or other unwanted elements taking advantage of it.

Probably a good time to post this video again, think it was posted here some time ago. Turn on captions. [video=youtube;5zFjIdC9Xo0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zFjIdC9Xo0[/video]