Doctor forcibly removed from overbooked United Airlines flight shown bloodied and confused - Sensationalist Headlines

[URL="http://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/2017/04/11/david-dao-passenger-removed-united-flight-doctor-troubled-past/100318320/"]Oh, and to top off this turd sandwich, apparently Twitter's going nuts about an article that appeared in some no-name newspaper that essentially attempts to malign the doctor. [/URL] Between this and the other airlines beginning to take pot shots at United, I'm beginning to wonder outside of the original incident if there's a possibility of a smear campaign against United. No PR team can be [I]this[/I] incompetent and still have jobs.

There are some people who are trying to bring up the doctors past as if it has any relevance to the situation but I'm not going to name them because giving them attention just doesn't help. Like "its ok he was a bad guy anyways" [editline]12th April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=thelurker1234;52094119] And don't say they beat the shit out of him. They didn't. [/QUOTE] [t]http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.3043208.1491922160!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/dao12n-1-web.jpg[/t] pulling him out if his seat and allowing his head to smash against another seat isn't beating the shit out of him? They may not have kicked him while he was down but they caused some pretty good injuries [QUOTE=thelurker1234;52094119]The thing is, when someone with authority to use force like airport police are telling you do something, within reason, you do what you're told. If a cop wrongly pulls you over you don't tell him to fuck off and drive away. You put up with it, and contest the ticket later. This bit is purely regarding the use of force in this case by the way, done by the airport police, not united, and not about the initiation of asking him to leave.[/QUOTE] hey complying with authorities is one thing. But he was in the legal right to be there. He paid for it, he was allowed onto the flight, he was seated and all that shit. The authorities never should have been called in the first place. They were serving as strong arms and nothing more. They weren't there to remove some "Wrongful trespasser", the dude didn't get in there by sneaking past security, he paid to be on that plane, and he had good reasons to be there.

[QUOTE=JerryAnderson;52094094]It's one thing to remove a non-compliant passenger, it's another to smash their fucking skulls against the seat when they don't show immediate compliance. Keep in mind he's a doctor as well, so it's not some middle class entitled prick throwing a hissyfit even if it's bullshit why they got thrown out the plane, he's an actual doctor with places to be and people to save.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying that the amount of force used was justified, and I think he has a good lawsuit on his hands against that law enforcement agency, but in the end, he was non compliant. And judging by his medical record and current stipulations on practice from his trading drugs for sex, I doubt he's doing any real life saving work. [QUOTE=J!NX;52094104]Yeah man, having authorities literally strong arm him was the logical conclusion to removing a customer who 1. Didn't do anything to warrant removal. It was [U]their fuck up[/U] 2. Paid and was already seated Really companies should be allowed to have authorities strong arm anyone they like! [editline]12th April 2017[/editline] Really, beating the shit out of paying customers when you fuck up is honestly the best solution. 100% support this![/QUOTE] It doesn't matter who's fuckup it is or if he paid or not. It's not his plane, not his property, he has no right to ignore a legal order to vacate the plane. And while I don't support the excess of force used, use of force was justified. [QUOTE=J!NX;52094155]There are some people who are trying to bring up the doctors past as if it has any relevance to the situation but I'm not going to name them because giving them attention just doesn't help. Like "its ok he was a bad guy anyways"[/QUOTE] Well, if people want to stop his past from being brought up, maybe they should stop using "but he's a doctor with lives to save!" as an appeal to emotion in an argument.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52094228]It doesn't matter who's fuckup it is or if he paid or not. It's not his plane, not his property, he has no right to ignore a legal order to vacate the plane. And while I don't support the excess of force used, use of force was justified. [/QUOTE] I don't think its fair at all that a company can remove anyone they wish regardless of the reason just because they have the ability to command an authority If people can be removed that way for reasons like this one (A completely arbitrary and bullshit excuse of a reason), companies can and will abuse that power very much I wish the authorities could have been able to review the situation and refused to remove someone who genuinely had the right to be there, but that's unrealistic [QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52094228] Well, if people want to stop his past from being brought up, maybe they should stop using "but he's a doctor with lives to save!" as an appeal to emotion in an argument.[/QUOTE] Personally I don't give a shit the idea of him being a doctor making him a saint but at least an emotional appeal is better than justifying shit just because they don't like the persons actions. Just because someone did meth once or robbed a store doesn't make something bad happening to them that is 100% unrelated suddenly acceptable. I wonder how much of those stories are true and how much of them are slam pieces. I'm not saying they're true or false, but when something has that little relevance its just a means of morally justifying anything. And being a doctor, regardless of his past, at least gives him an excuse to be non-compliant. If only they did other things before calling in the muscle squad, like maybe asking other people?

[QUOTE=The Genie;52094266]Crazy thought but bare with me here. Maybe they could have... increased the offer until someone accepted, with it being their fuck up and all. $800 is a pittance for the hassle of rescheduling a flight and associated plans. People generally book flights and expect to get to where they need to go at the time specified but no doubt there would have been someone on the plane willing to delay their plans for a decent amount of cash. The doctor obviously didn't because he was aware that he had patients he needed to see tomorrow.[/QUOTE] The max legally is 1350, and that's with the maximum conditions as well, which I'm not sure whether this even falls under. Also this talk of his legal right to be there, we don't entirely know yet. This isn't a situation where we have an easy precedent to look at and say "see, illegal/legal."

[QUOTE=J!NX;52094265]I don't think its fair at all that a company can remove anyone they wish regardless of the reason just because they have the ability to command an authority If people can be removed that way for reasons like this one (A completely arbitrary and bullshit excuse of a reason), companies can and will abuse that power very much[/QUOTE] They've always had that ability and authority because you don't have a right to the use of their property. [QUOTE]Personally I don't give a shit the idea of him being a doctor making him a saint but at least an emotional appeal is better than justifying shit just because they don't like the persons actions. Just because someone did meth once or robbed a store doesn't make something bad happening to them that is 100% unrelated suddenly acceptable. I wonder how much of those stories are true and how much of them are slam pieces. I'm not saying they're true or false, but when something has that little relevance its just a means of morally justifying anything.[/QUOTE] Nobody said that this was 100% acceptable because of his past. But if you're going to use his profession as an excuse, then it's fair game to scrutinize.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52094284]They've always had that ability and authority because you don't have a right to the use of their property. Nobody said that this was 100% acceptable because of his past. But if you're going to use his profession as an excuse, then it's fair game to scrutinize.[/QUOTE] They shouldn't have used that authority though

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52094284]They've always had that ability and authority because you don't have a right to the use of their property..[/QUOTE] if they can't properly make use of the authority and aren't capable of using it at an acceptable time they should have the ability to command that authority at all in the first place they shouldn't be allowed to use the police however they see fit [editline]12th April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Trebgarta;52094305]Why? They need their employees to be in Kentucky then and there. What better way than use their own plane?[/QUOTE] By screwing customers over?

[QUOTE=J!NX;52094316]if they can't properly make use of the authority and aren't capable of using it at an acceptable time they should have the ability to command that authority at all in the first place they shouldn't be allowed to use the police however they see fit[/QUOTE] Should you not be allowed to call the police to remove me from your property if I refuse to leave?

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52094432]Should you not be allowed to call the police to remove me from your property if I refuse to leave?[/QUOTE] Only if you don't get injured at all while the police are physically removing you. /s

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52094432]Should you not be allowed to call the police to remove me from your property if I refuse to leave?[/QUOTE] i mean if i paid for my place in the property (with your blessing no less) and the only reason you're removing me is to let in 4 of your own butt buddies kind of a dick move.

[QUOTE=lintz;52094454]i mean if i paid for my place in the property (with your blessing no less) and the only reason you're removing me is to let in 4 of your own butt buddies kind of a dick move.[/QUOTE] It's a simple yes or no question. Should the owner of the property be allowed to call the police to remove someone from their private property regardless of situation.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52094228]It doesn't matter who's fuckup it is or if he paid or not. It's not his plane, not his property, he has no right to ignore a legal order to vacate the plane. And while I don't support the excess of force used, use of force was justified. [/QUOTE] [Url=https://np.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/64m8lg/why_is_rvideos_just_filled_with_united_related/dg3xvja/?context=3] Apparently that order wasn't actually legal.[/url] [Quote]First of all, it's airline spin to call this an overbooking. The statutory provision granting them the ability to deny boarding is about "OVERSALES", specifically defines as booking more reserved confirmed seats than there are available. This is not what happened. They did not overbook the flight; they had a fully booked flight, and not only did everyone already have a reserved confirmed seat, they were all sitting in them. The law allowing them to denying boarding in the event of an oversale does not apply. Even if it did apply, the law is unambiguously clear that airlines have to give preference to everyone with reserved confirmed seats when choosing to involuntarily deny boarding. They have to always choose the solution that will affect the least amount of reserved confirmed seats. This rule is straightforward, and United makes very clear in their own contract of carriage that employees of their own or of other carriers may be denied boarding without compensation because they do not have reserved confirmed seats. On its face, it's clear that what they did was illegal-- they gave preference to their employees over people who had reserved confirmed seats, in violation of 14 CFR 250.2a. Furthermore, even if you try and twist this into a legal application of 250.2a and say that United had the right to deny him boarding in the event of an overbooking; they did NOT have the right to kick him off the plane. Their contract of carriage highlights there is a complete difference in rights after you've boarded and sat on the plane, and Rule 21 goes over the specific scenarios where you could get kicked off. NONE of them apply here. He did absolutely nothing wrong and shouldn't have been targeted. He's going to leave with a hefty settlement after this fiasco.[/Quote]

you're boiling it down into a yes or no question when it is in fact not a yes or no question because of the circumstances.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52094432]Should you not be allowed to call the police to remove me from your property if I refuse to leave?[/QUOTE] poor analogy ignoring the actually important parts of the situation and implying Dao wasn't entitled to his place in the property he paid for a ticket, a legal exchange of services for money granting entitlement, and was guaranteed seating on the plane, until right before takeoff with no warning because people at United didn't plan ahead for their crew's travel. He didn't just walk onto the plane without reason to be there. The jump from "nobody took the given compensation" to "we need to forcibly remove a paying customer by calling the police, even if it means they suffer bodily harm" is what disturbs me and what should disturb everyone.

[QUOTE=Silence I Kill You;52094432]Should you not be allowed to call the police to remove me from your property if I refuse to leave?[/QUOTE] If you're paying a rent as part of a mutually agreed upon contract and you did nothing wrong that warrants forcefully removing you? No.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52094096]I hope his patients know that he gives such little of a damn about their lives then that he takes no precautions regarding transportation. There's an infinite amount of ways that flight could have been delayed.[/QUOTE] Yeah, fuck him for paying for a plane ticket, showing up to the airport and going through security, and sitting down on the plane and expecting to be taken to where he paid to go, right? [editline]oh[/editline] Oh shit there was a whole other page in the thread.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;52094536]Yeah, fuck him for paying for a plane ticket, showing up to the airport and going through security, and sitting down on the plane and expecting to be taken to where he paid to go, right? [editline]oh[/editline] Oh shit there was a whole other page in the thread.[/QUOTE] I was responding to the "he's a doctor and needs to be places!" thing. There's a million ways your flight can get stopped or delayed, it's not a particularly rare occurrence. Because of that if a life is on the line, you shouldn't go last minute where you can't spare any faults.

Uh, quick question, whats the deal with people blaming the doctor for getting his shit kicked in illegally by the shitty airline service that willingly partakes in stupid practices? Can someone explain this? Anyone? No really what the fuck is up with some of you. Do you actually have any idea what you're saying? Are you well?

[QUOTE=JerryAnderson;52094094]It's one thing to remove a non-compliant passenger, it's another to smash their fucking skulls against the seat when they don't show immediate compliance. Keep in mind he's a doctor as well, so it's not some middle class entitled prick throwing a hissyfit even if it's bullshit why they got thrown out the plane, he's an actual doctor with places to be and people to save.[/QUOTE] Him being a doctor is irrelevant to the events that took place. He does not get any type of pass for being a doctor.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52094649]Him being a doctor is irrelevant to the events that took place. He does not get any type of pass for being a doctor.[/QUOTE] First off, he was apparently on board to get to patients by the next day, so yes it is. Second, why does he need a pass when its the companies fault. Holy shit the victim blaming here is outrageous.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52094649]Him being a doctor is irrelevant to the events that took place. He does not get any type of pass for being a doctor.[/QUOTE] You're right, it's irrelevant because no matter their profession, nobody should receive that kind of treatment, nor should the airline be allowed to do what they did.

[QUOTE=AaronM202;52094656]First off, he was apparently on board to get to patients by the next day, so yes it is. Second, why does he need a pass when its the companies fault. Holy shit the victim blaming here is outrageous.[/QUOTE] First off, no it isnt. Him being a doctor does not mean shit in this entire situation. He was selected via preset criteria. They dont get to skip him beacuse hes a doctor. Second, I'm not saying shit about that. I'm saying him being a doctor has 0 relevance or importance to any events that happened. Imagine if airlines decides what members of the public gets to fly based on their life story or career. Wow. Thats truly a world I want to live in.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52094728]First off, no it isnt. Him being a doctor does not mean shit in this entire situation. He was selected via preset criteria. They dont get to skip him beacuse hes a doctor. Second, I'm not saying shit about that. I'm saying him being a doctor has 0 relevance or importance to any events that happened. Imagine if airlines decides what members of the public gets to fly based on their life story or career. Wow. Thats truly a world I want to live in.[/QUOTE] i know right? imagine getting special dispensation in your life because your job entitles you to certain- oh wait you're a cop i guess you know all about that

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52094728]First off, no it isnt. Him being a doctor does not mean shit in this entire situation. He was selected via preset criteria. They dont get to skip him beacuse hes a doctor. Second, I'm not saying shit about that. I'm saying him being a doctor has 0 relevance or importance to any events that happened. Imagine if airlines decides what members of the public gets to fly based on their life story or career. Wow. Thats truly a world I want to live in.[/QUOTE] What? But they replaced the seats with people who were employees for the airline, which means that we live in that world, their career decided that they get to fly while somebody else get's their face smashed in.

Their shitty planning for getting their employees where they should be, risked patients and injured this man

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52094279]The max legally is 1350, and that's with the maximum conditions as well, which I'm not sure whether this even falls under. Also this talk of his legal right to be there, we don't entirely know yet. This isn't a situation where we have an easy precedent to look at and say "see, illegal/legal."[/QUOTE] Are you sure you're not referring to what United is legally [i]obligated[/i] to offer? Are you absolutely sure that United is [i]legally prevented[/i] from offering more than $1,350 in order to entice passengers to leave? Also, [b]they didn't even offer the maximum you stated[/b], so how does that even apply?

[QUOTE=lintz;52094748]i know right? imagine getting special dispensation in your life because your job entitles you to certain- oh wait you're a cop i guess you know all about that[/QUOTE] I get zero preference when flying. If you think I get something, please enlighten me. The only preference I get is if I'm flying for business related things and that's only if it gets pre-approved through the FAA.

[QUOTE=geel9;52094791]Are you sure you're not referring to what United is legally [I]obligated[/I] to offer? Are you absolutely sure that United is [I]legally prevented[/I] from offering more than $1,350 in order to entice passengers to leave? Also, [B]they didn't even offer the maximum you stated[/B], so how does that even apply?[/QUOTE] My bad. I checked and that's the maximum for being involuntarily removed, calculated based on the cost of the flight and if your departure is delayed by at least two hours. Voluntarily they can theoretically offer anything. Probably the best policy change they can do moving forward to avoid situations like this is to copy Delta's method. Where before getting on the plane, individuals are asked what the minimum compensation they'd take in exchange for getting bumped. As a result of that while Delta has a very high amount of bumped passengers compared to other airlines, they have a very small amount of INVOLUNTARILY bumped passengers. Source w/ Numbers : [URL]http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/how-delta-masters-the-game-of-overbooking-flights/[/URL] I have to imagine that it also just plain reduces the amount of compensation people will require if they're asked before they get on the plane too. Just a conjecture off of my subjective view of human nature tho

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52094728]First off, no it isnt. Him being a doctor does not mean shit in this entire situation. He was selected via preset criteria. They dont get to skip him beacuse hes a doctor. Second, I'm not saying shit about that. I'm saying him being a doctor has 0 relevance or importance to any events that happened. Imagine if airlines decides what members of the public gets to fly based on their life story or career. Wow. Thats truly a world I want to live in.[/QUOTE] Whether they give preference or not for being a doctor isn't being debated. Obviously he doesn't. They made that very clear by kicking him off. But do you really think that they shouldn't take special circumstances into account?