Doctor forcibly removed from overbooked United Airlines flight shown bloodied and confused - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52085983]Lmao what. Sorry you don't agree with how aviation industry works. Tough break. Airline's care only about the bottom line unless you're not riding economy. All they see are dollar signs.[/QUOTE] which should change?????

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52085983]Lmao what. Sorry you don't agree with how aviation industry works. Tough break. Airline's care only about the bottom line unless you're not riding economy. All they see are dollar signs.[/QUOTE] Dollar signs theyre going to inevitably lose because of the incident. Business partners arent going to want to partner with the flight that dragged an unconscious person off the place. Thats bad for business. The condundrum seems to be how to stop something like this from ever happening in the first place while still allowing flights to be profitable.

how are you not getting this? [editline]10th April 2017[/editline] merge

[QUOTE=Sheer Visor;52085994]edit: looks like I'm late to the "explaining how the aviation industry works" party lol[/QUOTE] People don't like it. People don't know the economics of it. I'm not going to be bothered to explain it further. It's all $$$$ and airlines can't afford to be personal about it since economy doesn't make them the money like any other higher class does.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52086007]how are you not getting this? [editline]10th April 2017[/editline] merge[/QUOTE] He does get it though, its not that he argues we should drag people off planes in violent bloody fashion because corporate CEOs need to jack off with their money, he's arguing that you cant really stop overbooking otherwise flights become unprofitable and then you can say bye bye to affordable air travel. Everyones getting angry at this because its a very cold way of analzying a very emotional situation, but its not necessarily an incorrect way of arguing for the airline. Its an awful situation and United is going to pay the price through horrifyingly bad PR, but the solution should not completely eschew the airline because thats not how capitalism works. At the same time, consumer equality needs to be upheld and situations like this, albeit rare, need to be stopped. Its not as simple as "just change lol," and that seems to be his point.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52086020]People don't like it. People don't know the economics of it. I'm not going to be bothered to explain it further. It's all $$$$ and airlines can't afford to be personal about it since economy doesn't make them the money like any other higher class does.[/QUOTE] find another way to make profits then, this isn't acceptable

[QUOTE=Fhenexx;52086024]He does get it though, its not that he argues we should drag people off planes in violent bloody fashion because corporate CEOs need to jack off with their money, he's arguing that you cant really stop overbooking otherwise flights become unprofitable and then you can say bye bye to affordable air travel. Everyones getting angry at this because its a very cold way of analzying a very emotional situation, but its not necessarily an incorrect way of arguing for the airline.[/QUOTE] you know someone's making excuses when they're defending the business practices of corporations ran by billionaires, as though screwing over a margin of customers on a regular basis is the life blood of affordable travel

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52086003]which should change?????[/QUOTE] The only way it's going to change is paying more for tickets (which people donet like) or put more seats in the cabin... Which has more regulatory issues than just customer comfort

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52086036]The only way it's going to change is paying more for tickets (which people donet like) or put more seats in the cabin... Which has more regulatory issues than just customer comfort[/QUOTE] you should become a lobbyist

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52086020]People don't like it. People don't know the economics of it. I'm not going to be bothered to explain it further. It's all $$$$ and airlines can't afford to be personal about it since economy doesn't make them the money like any other higher class does.[/QUOTE] Please provide the economic statistics that proves that airlines need to overbook for a profit because I doubt they exist. A few years old, but they had a net profit of billions in 2015. [url]http://newsroom.united.com/2016-01-21-United-Airlines-Announces-Full-Year-2015-Profit[/url] Even if not overbooking cost them a billion dollars they'd still have a profit. I understand why as a corporation they do it, but at the same time it should be an illegal practice.

instead of overbooking why don't they just adopt a no refunds policy????

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52086036]The only way it's going to change is paying more for tickets (which people donet like) or put more seats in the cabin... Which has more regulatory issues than just customer comfort[/QUOTE] Oh come on, there are plenty more ways corporations can make money

[QUOTE=bitches;52086035]you know someone's making excuses when they're defending the business practices of corporations ran by billionaires, as though screwing over a margin of customers on a regular basis is the life blood of affordable travel[/QUOTE] I'm just playing devils adovocate here, last thing we need in a discussion is an echo chamber [editline]10th April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Kyle902;52086051]instead of overbooking why don't they just adopt a no refunds policy????[/QUOTE] Arent airline tickets already nonrefundable?

[QUOTE=Fhenexx;52086058] Arent airline tickets already nonrefundable?[/QUOTE] Usually they're refundable until a certain date, unless you get travel insurance. Overbooking is stupid because the physical person being on the plane shouldn't matter at all unless they have to pay for bags or buy some snacks on the plane. And if your airline is operating on such low profit margins that baggage fees and snacks from a few no shows threatens your profitability then your airline has far more serious issues to worry about.

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52085983]Lmao what. Sorry you don't agree with how aviation industry works. Tough break. Airline's care only about the bottom line unless you're not riding economy. All they see are dollar signs.[/QUOTE] No shit all they see is dollar signs. If you knew how fucking close to bankruptcy most airlines have been, or continually are, you'd agree. [QUOTE=bitches;52085996]Those poor billionaire flight corporations can't afford to only sell seats that exist? They already have the no refunds policy; overbooking is the deliberate planning to sell more of a commodity than exists.[/QUOTE] Airlines are NOT rich lol (as far as giant globe-spanning mega-corporations go at least). Investing in aviation is a legitimately bad idea, and I fucking work in the industry lmao. The largest airline company, American Airlines Group, made a whopping 40b revenue, and only profit of 2.8b in 2016 and has around 120,000 employees. For contrast, Google has 57,000 employees, made 90b revenue, and 5b profit. Literally 2x revenue/profits with half a smuch staff. As far as companies go airlines cost the most to hire/pay/train employees out of most types of companies, and some of the highest operational costs with land rentals, plane purchasing/maintenance/rental, etc. Airlines are financially lean as fuck. Every wondered why you've never gotten a[I] free[/I] airline pen? [QUOTE=bitches;52085996]overbooking is the deliberate planning to sell more of a commodity than exists.[/QUOTE] No shit? No one is disputing this? 9 times out of 10 it works entirely fine and nobody even notices. The other 1 time, they pay compensation to someone to bump them to a flight. If they sell 10 extra seats, but have to bump one person and pay them 3-seats worth of compensation, they still profit 7 seats. This scenario is an extreme anomaly, and as I stated previously, more so to do with idiotic staff than bookings. This sort of scenario happens daily. Why they singled him out to be bumped and forced him, I don't know, but I'm eagerly awaiting more developments.

[QUOTE=bitches;52085996] good job not reading his post; you can just start over by reading the first line and pretend he said it in response to you again why do I always see you playing advocate in threads about police brutality? given that you're a cop IRL I don't know if I should be surprised or used to this trend[/QUOTE] Police in the United States exist to exert the will of corporations at the skull-cracking level, and fealty to the institution guarantees cops just enough status over the peasantry to keep the ranks full. Defense of this behavior is a foreseeable outcome.

[QUOTE=FZE;52086100]Police in the United States exist to exert the will of corporations at the skull-cracking level, and fealty to the institution guarantees cops just enough status over the peasantry to keep the ranks full. Defense of this behavior is a foreseeable outcome.[/QUOTE] and you will of course substantiate this claim with some form of source?

[QUOTE=matt000024;52086044]Please provide the economic statistics that proves that airlines need to overbook for a profit because I doubt they exist. A few years old, but they had a net profit of billions in 2015. [url]http://newsroom.united.com/2016-01-21-United-Airlines-Announces-Full-Year-2015-Profit[/url] Even if not overbooking cost them a billion dollars they'd still have a profit. I understand why as a corporation they do it, but at the same time it should be an illegal practice.[/QUOTE] Is 1bn in profit with 8bn of expenses a good margin for any business? Thats less than 10% margin. Thats peanuts. And this is with a strong economy. It will come back down. Most of the time they average about 8% margin in the good times and at or less than 5% in bad times. This changes about every 10 years or if theres a major event (such as 9/11 where airlines didnt even make money for years). No one should run a business with 5-8% margin on their profits. Dont get lost with "billions" being thrown around. Aviation is an inherently high volume industry with slim margins. And thats with 80% cabin fill. Thats why they're pushing for full flights every time. More people in the seats means more money in the bank.

Overbooking flights is like selling more hamburgers in a fast food restaurant then you can physically hold in expectation that some of your patrons might get up and leave because of the wait.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;52086147]Overbooking flights is like selling more hamburgers in a fast food restaurant then you can physically hold in expectation that some of your patrons might get up and leave because of the wait.[/QUOTE] It's more like being a take-out restaurant that takes 10% more orders than they're capable of taking because they know for a fact based on statistics from previous years and similar nights that about 10% of your patrons are going to be too drunk to make it to the shop, forget to set their alarm, or otherwise forget to get it between phoning you for takeout and coming to get it. If extras DO turn up to your take out, you compensate them with a pile of coupons, their money back and a packet of crisps.

-Snip, this was not well thought out at all-

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52086126]Is 1bn in profit with 8bn of expenses a good margin for any business? Thats less than 10% margin. Thats peanuts. And this is with a strong economy. It will come back down. Most of the time they average about 8% margin in the good times and at or less than 5% in bad times. This changes about every 10 years or if theres a major event (such as 9/11 where airlines didnt even make money for years). No one should run a business with 5-8% margin on their profits. Dont get lost with "billions" being thrown around. Aviation is an inherently high volume industry with slim margins. And thats with 80% cabin fill. Thats why they're pushing for full flights every time. More people in the seats means more money in the bank.[/QUOTE] Corporations should have low profit margins in an ideal world though?

Regardless of whether overbooking should be allowed or not, it's ridiculous that they would let someone onto the plane and into a seat before telling them they need to get off. If it's going to happen, it should happen at the gate or earlier.

[QUOTE=Sheer Visor;52086165]It's more like being a take-out restaurant that takes 10% more orders than they're capable of taking because they know for a fact based on statistics from previous years and similar nights that about 10% of your patrons are going to be too drunk to make it to the shop, forget to set their alarm, or otherwise forget to get it between phoning you for takeout and coming to get it. If extras DO turn up to your take out, you compensate them with a pile of coupons, their money back and a packet of crisps.[/QUOTE] It isn't hamburgers and it can't be solved with a pittance of a ticket refund. It's greed in the name of "affordable airfare" that hurts low-income travelers the most, who lose out on work they're late returning to and potential workplace employment penalties.

Don't passengers usually get bumped up to a higher class if the lower classes are overbooked? That's what happened to me and my friends with Emirates twice.

[QUOTE=matt000024;52086176]Corporations should have low profit margins in an ideal world though?[/QUOTE] We don't live in an ideal world. These airlines are constantly chasing the bottom line trying to stay in business. And the US is not like other countries that sponsor their alines and can allow them to run in the red

[QUOTE=Code3Response;52086194]We don't live in an ideal world. These airlines are constantly chasing the bottom line trying to stay in business. And the US is not like other countries that sponsor their alines and can allow them to run in the red[/QUOTE] Fuck me for wanting the world to be closer to ideal?

[QUOTE=squids_eye;52086178]Regardless of whether overbooking should be allowed or not, it's ridiculous that they would let someone onto the plane and into a seat before telling them they need to get off. If it's going to happen, it should happen at the gate or earlier.[/QUOTE] They tried to solve this at the gate prior

[QUOTE=Kyle902;52086051]instead of overbooking why don't they just adopt a no refunds policy????[/QUOTE] that's what jetblue does to get around not overselling flights and they're the only one that does it

[QUOTE=matt000024;52086198]Fuck me for wanting the world to be closer to ideal?[/QUOTE] You have a lot more businesses to solve before you arrive at airlines. Merge