[QUOTE=myon;52515959]are you all really oblivious to the fact that editoutj was most likely referring to this post[/QUOTE]
It's like they dont even read the thread they just see some guy calling somebody racist and then jump on the "youre a overly progressive sjw" train thinking I'm defending a rapist for some reason.
[QUOTE=AutismoPiggo;52515574]How utterly unsurprising that it's Asians. I also suspect they're not oriental Asians ethier.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Racist shitpost" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
Why is there some degenerate who will point at race every single time? Someone would have said this whether the guys were black, brown, white, asian
[QUOTE=Mr_Razzums;52515738]Referring to people of middle eastern origin as "Asians" in the news is concerning at best.[/QUOTE]
Really isn't
[QUOTE=Kylel999;52516122]Why is there some degenerate who will point at race every single time? Someone would have said this whether the guys were black, brown, white, asian[/QUOTE]
Individuals incorrectly intertwine race with culture, while also seeing a complex cultural canvas as a single shade, which leads to the then seemingly logical conclusion that everyone of X race believes in or does Y thing.
I mean, it happens for everything though; e.g. "all Americans are gun toting patriotic idiots". It's just that some parts of the media is focusing on painting everyone from the middle east as being monsters, thus such incorrect vast generalizations are more common towards said group of people.
[QUOTE=Kylel999;52516122]Why is there some degenerate who will point at race every single time? Someone would have said this whether the guys were black, brown, white, asian[/QUOTE]
Even though you may disagree, I'm positive that a significant percentage of people you think are racist actually aren't racist but are "culture intolerant". I'm sure that very very few people actually give a shit about someone's pigment, it's more about the culture they grew around and propagate.
Nobody cares that gypsies are darker skinned, people hate them because they refuse to assimilate to modern day life and stick to their "traditions".
[QUOTE=myon;52515959]are you all really oblivious to the fact that editoutj was most likely referring to this post[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=orcywoo6;52515952]Lol but they literally ARE asian wtf else are they gonna call them? Imagine if they just didn't disclose it and someone saw them but didn't recognise them due to the lack of a racial descriptor.[/QUOTE]
orcywoo was later seen exiting the thread thinking all of facepunch is full of stupid leftists because he misinterpreted a reply to a misinterpretation.
It's pretty rare for articles to absolutely infuriate me, but ya this kinda takes that title
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;52516155]Really isn't[/QUOTE]
How is it not? Its purposely misidentifying fugitives to avoid kicking a political hornets nest. Saying that both of those guys are Arab isn't an issue. It only becomes an issue when you have people in the comments who think all Mooslims are rapists and have dethrays, but in addition now they're also going to bitch about the media purposely convoluting the storry so's not to offend people.
The bottom line is that it was Arab men who committed crimes against this poor woman. Hiding their identity behind racial semantics is just silly. The objective of any news organization should be to report news objectively and not hide details by convoluting them to avoid an upheavel.
[QUOTE=AutismoPiggo;52515574]How utterly unsurprising that it's Asians. I also suspect they're not oriental Asians ethier.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Racist shitpost" - Big Dumb American))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
Can y'all permaban this guy?
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitpost / Mod Sass - Isn't learning" - Kiwi))[/highlight]
Focusing on their race just makes it easier for idiots to convince themselves that 'barbaric outsiders' are the ones who commit sexual crimes, allowing them to continue to ignore deeply ingrained problems of (often sexual) violence towards women in our societies by exporting the blame onto some group of people who are not 'them'. It's a distraction tactic which leads them to solutions which, while often accurately depicting people from these backgrounds as generally treating women worse, are superficial and target one group of people at the expense of deep and sustained action to fix the problem.
I do not think it is inappropriate to discuss the potential effects the culture of some places in the middle east and west asia may have had on influencing this kind of behaviour. while i do know that there is an issue with misogyny and violence against women in western cultures, i do not feel out of line in believing they are comparatively small in reference to those same issues in some middle eastern cultures.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;52518511]I do not think it is inappropriate to discuss the potential effects the culture of some places in the middle east and west asia may have had on influencing this kind of behaviour. while i do know that there is an issue with misogyny and violence against women in western cultures, i do not feel out of line in believing they are comparatively small in reference to those same issues in some middle eastern cultures.[/QUOTE]
"comparatively small"
More like an ant compared to a blue whale.
In middle Eastern countries women are often punished for being raped.
[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;52518511]I do not think it is inappropriate to discuss the potential effects the culture of some places in the middle east and west asia may have had on influencing this kind of behaviour. while i do know that there is an issue with misogyny and violence against women in western cultures, i do not feel out of line in believing they are comparatively small in reference to those same issues in some middle eastern cultures.[/QUOTE]
yeah look calling them out for their comparatively worse treatment of women is fine but fundamentally any solution to the problem that is worth its salt would also be applicable to the way men in the west treat women, unless your goal is getting them in line with western values (which still results in a culture where men commit acts of physical and sexual violence towards women). The questions around people's ethnicities in this sort of thing tend to promote lines of thinking which aren't self-reflective, making rape and sexual violence a problem caused by outsiders when, in reality, we're also complicit in the west for these sorts of behaviours.
essentially other people's extremely shitty behaviours at the dinner table shouldn't excuse our own shitty behaviour at the same table. We should all learn better manners
I'm not trying to stir the pot, but Muslims make up 5% of the UKs population and yet the multitude of rape gangs (I believe there were atleast 15 sects across the UK) were made up of 90% Muslim men. Even just googling gang rape UK will return with countless recent events where the perpetrators are Asian. while racist, his comment wasn't exactly inaccurate. Burying your heads in the sand to avoid any chance of being called racist is exactly what led to the nationwide rape gangs who were above the law for some time.
[QUOTE=Ishwoo;52518630]I'm not trying to stir the pot, but Muslims make up 5% of the UKs population and yet the multitude of rape gangs (I believe there were atleast 15 sects across the UK) were made up of 90% Muslim men. Even just googling gang rape UK will return with countless recent events where the perpetrators are Asian. while racist, his comment wasn't exactly inaccurate. Burying your heads in the sand to avoid any chance of being called racist is exactly what led to the nationwide rape gangs who were above the law for some time.[/QUOTE]
90%? Can I ask for a source? 90% seems a little bit too much.
[QUOTE=VprVajraRpv;52518778]90%? Can I ask for a source? 90% seems a little bit too much.[/QUOTE]
It's a far right source with no references but googling the names and crimes will bring up news reports from trusted sources: [URL]http://www.pmclauth.com/sentenced/Grooming-Gang-Statistics/Gangs-Jailed[/URL]
I also mistakenly mentioned 90% muslim rather than 90% asian men, but my point still stands.
alternatively a few news sources:
[URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-36559092[/URL]
[URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-36526128[/URL]
[URL]http://www.itv.com/news/granada/update/2016-09-20/four-men-jailed-for-serious-sexual-offences-with-children-mainly-in-rochdale/[/URL]
[URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-38759383[/URL]
[URL]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12173777/Rotherham-victim-abused-in-car-park-next-to-police-station.html[/URL]
[URL]http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/14261011.UPDATE__Gang_who_raped_and_abused_vulnerable_Keighley_schoolgirl_locked_up_for_more_than_140_years/[/URL]
[URL]http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/jail-for-leeds-men-who-sexually-corrupted-vulnerable-teenager-1-7290078[/URL]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/FQfUAQQ.png[/img]
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexual_abuses_perpetrated_by_groups#United_Kingdom[/URL]
7 of 19 mass gang rapes in the list above had non-asian men as the majority of the perpetrators.
[QUOTE=Ishwoo;52518851]It's a far right source with no references but googling the names and crimes will bring up news reports from trusted sources: [URL]http://www.pmclauth.com/sentenced/Grooming-Gang-Statistics/Gangs-Jailed[/URL]
I also mistakenly mentioned 90% muslim rather than 90% asian men, but my point still stands.
alternatively a few news sources:
[URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-36559092[/URL]
[URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-36526128[/URL]
[URL]http://www.itv.com/news/granada/update/2016-09-20/four-men-jailed-for-serious-sexual-offences-with-children-mainly-in-rochdale/[/URL]
[URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-coventry-warwickshire-38759383[/URL]
[URL]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/12173777/Rotherham-victim-abused-in-car-park-next-to-police-station.html[/URL]
[URL]http://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/14261011.UPDATE__Gang_who_raped_and_abused_vulnerable_Keighley_schoolgirl_locked_up_for_more_than_140_years/[/URL]
[URL]http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/jail-for-leeds-men-who-sexually-corrupted-vulnerable-teenager-1-7290078[/URL]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/FQfUAQQ.png[/img]
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sexual_abuses_perpetrated_by_groups#United_Kingdom[/URL]
7 of 19 mass gang rapes in the list above had non-asian men as the majority of the perpetrators.[/QUOTE]
I've honestly never seen someone named Mohammed Akram described as asian, in my head the description of "Asian" is racial and not geographic.
Hell even in one of the wiki articles you listed this has been brought up.
[QUOTE=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/756399362]Asian is an unhelpful term. They were British citizens and not Asian. They were not Hindu, Bufdist, Sikh, etc. To say Asian is to mask a truth.[/QUOTE]
Apparently there is a lot of disagreement in the edit history, lots of editors would prefer to describe the men in the edit history I posted as pakistani muslims instead of asian. Personally I think that's a more accurate description if you're going to add one.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52518429]How is it not? Its purposely misidentifying fugitives to avoid kicking a political hornets nest. Saying that both of those guys are Arab isn't an issue. It only becomes an issue when you have people in the comments who think all Mooslims are rapists and have dethrays, but in addition now they're also going to bitch about the media purposely convoluting the storry so's not to offend people.
The bottom line is that it was Arab men who committed crimes against this poor woman. Hiding their identity behind racial semantics is just silly. The objective of any news organization should be to report news objectively and not hide details by convoluting them to avoid an upheavel.[/QUOTE]
have a little read up on british asians before you pipe up
Jesus fucking christ. I swear these things are happening more often; perhaps they're just being reported/reported on more often, however if I was a criminal or opportunist I'd think now was a perfect time to do something and get away with it, because the nearest Policeman is probably 30 miles away and they won't have time to investigate much anyway.
They arrested two guys in relation to the first attack.
[url]http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/news/midlands-news/police-arrest-two-men-after-13403212[/url]
[QUOTE=Amakir;52515831]As far as I know bits tend to refer to Indians and middle east energy as Asians and south-east Asians as orientals.[/QUOTE]
Oriental is such a racist outdated word in America holy shit this thread
[QUOTE=proboardslol;52519406]Oriental is such a racist outdated word in America holy shit this thread[/QUOTE]
literally the first time in my life I've ever heard the word Oriental being described as racist.
[QUOTE=Araknid;52519419]literally the first time in my life I've ever heard the word Oriental being described as racist.[/QUOTE]
It's probably a regional thing (American vs Non-America), but to me "oriental" sounds like something your racist grandma would say awkwardly to your Asian girlfriend when you bring her home for thanksgiving. Maybe not racist exactly, but definitely an outdated term. It's like calling a black guy a "negro", or "colored", to me.
[editline]29th July 2017[/editline]
Here: [url]http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-tsuchiyama-oriental-insult-20160601-snap-story.html[/url]
This author says it's not racist, but it's at the very least contentious and if you use it, it will give you poor connotations
[editline]29th July 2017[/editline]
[url]https://www.thoughtco.com/avoid-these-five-racial-terms-2834959[/url]
[quote]Howard University Law Professor Frank H. Wu made the comparison in a 2009 New York Times piece about the state of New York banning the use of “Oriental” on government forms and documents. Washington State passed a similar ban in 2002.
“It’s associated with a time period when Asians had a subordinate status,” Professor Wu told the Times.
He added that people link the term to old stereotypes of Asians and the era when the United States government passed exclusion acts to keep Asian people from entering the country. Given this, “For many Asian Americans, it’s not just this term: It’s about much more…It’s about your legitimacy to be here,” Wu said.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Ishwoo;52518630]I'm not trying to stir the pot, but Muslims make up 5% of the UKs population and yet the multitude of rape gangs (I believe there were atleast 15 sects across the UK) were made up of 90% Muslim men. Even just googling gang rape UK will return with countless recent events where the perpetrators are Asian. while racist, his comment wasn't exactly inaccurate. Burying your heads in the sand to avoid any chance of being called racist is exactly what led to the nationwide rape gangs who were above the law for some time.[/QUOTE]
Yes. Me calling other people racist is what caused all these rapes nation wide. I will stop calling other people racist on the internet so these rape gangs will stop and turn themselves in.
Rape gangs? You mean human traffackers? That exist in almost every major country. In the americas we have hispanic drug cartels kidnapping and selling women of all ages both ways of the border. In europe they have north african gang members doing the same. In places like china or tailand its not unheard of to hear of parents selling their female kids.
It isn't a race issue. People growing up in low-income areas, people coming from war-torn countries, people growing up with criminal peers/parents have a higher chance of commiting crimes.
Blacks are more likely to rob you in america accoding to statistics. But guess what? Those guys that do rob you are from the fucking hood most times. The black dude that grew up in beverly hills is less likely to rob you.
We have millions of arabs here but the majority of rapes isnt commited by them, its usually of people from proverty sicken areas. Why is that?
Lack of education, social outcasting, nobody to raise them well.
In the states, even the arabs and muslims fresh out the boat usually assimilate fine. Their kids are almost always the exact same as other western kids.
When I visit family in the UK and France, I go to muslim neighborhoods and a good amount of them dont look assimilated at all. Why is that? Then looking at the state of the neighborhood they live in, it feels like they are just bundle into ghettos and left with.
It reminds me of some hispanic areas in my current city. Where alot dont speak english and such. Ghettos, gang ridden areas. Low income. With my experiences with gang members in the past. Low income, ghettos with shitty schools mixed with shitty parents are huge breeding grounds for sociopathy and violent behavior if you grow up in it.
You think a bunch of middle class, well educated people are going to start "rape gangs" and selling drugs? Well possiblely but its more likely going to be the guy who cant get a good job, uneducated, pissed off. Regardless of race. I bet you if those guys minorities opportunities as everybody else they would be less crime in general commit by them.
Maybe we should come up with [B]real[/B] solutions instead of just generalizing entire races we should see where these guys are coming from and how they are being raised.
I'll be honest. I dont know much about how muslims live in the UK compared to america but there is obvious assimilation problems that we dont get much of in the states. But I doubt going "fucking arabs" or "fucking niggers" is going to help assimilate them and I HIGHLY doubt antagonizing their entire race would help either. I seen the effects of that it just makes things worse honestly.
[QUOTE=rampageturke 2;52519282]have a little read up on british asians before you pipe up[/QUOTE]
I'm aware your country sometimes uses Imperial era semantics. My point is that its wrong to purposefully convolute race, especially when these 2 men are wanted.
When people say "Asian" in this country it's because it's easier than saying Indian/Pakistani/Bengali, and also avoids using the slur "paki"
[QUOTE=Coffee;52519497]When people say "Asian" in this country it's because it's easier than saying Indian/Pakistani/Bengali, and also avoids using the slur "paki"[/QUOTE]
In the states, calling somebody asian makes people think of chinese, japanese,korean, vietnames.
We just call indians and pakistanis, indians and pakistani. Also "paki" isnt used as a slur here.
[QUOTE=Araknid;52519419]literally the first time in my life I've ever heard the word Oriental being described as racist.[/QUOTE]
Not racist but definitely outdated and most people of Asian descent don't take too kindly to it.
In the US, the term 'oriental' is often used to describe objects like rugs, pots, etc. It only becomes antiquated and unappreciated when being used to describe a person. So saying, "I bought an oriental rug at the market yesterday" is perfectly acceptable, but saying, "I met an oriental guy yesterday," isn't.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52519482]I'm aware your country sometimes uses Imperial era semantics. My point is that its wrong to purposefully convolute race, especially when these 2 men are wanted.[/QUOTE]
it's not convoluting anything, everyone uses it, everyone knows it, asians even use it. quit projecting your american misunderstanding onto everyone else
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