Microsoft says its best not to fiddle with its Windows 10 group policies (that don't work)(go Linux) - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=da space core;52292656]I believe they blocked the group policy because people were using it to avoid updates. As far as telemetry goes, I believe the fears around it are a bit exaggerated, but there still should be a no-nonsense way of out right disabling it[/QUOTE] In a business you would use WSUS or SCCM and have full control over what updates can be applied.

[QUOTE=Nabile13;52293403]Well tough luck for you, I have no problems running my games using Wine. And when all else fails, you either keep a Windows partition around for running the games that don't run natively or through Wine, or you use GPU passthrough on a virtual machine. But of course you're free to stay on the platform of [i]your[/i] choice, it's not like I'm imposing anything :)[/QUOTE] Don't use Windows, use Linux except for all the times linux can't do what windows can!

[QUOTE=MrBunneh;52293449]Don't use Windows, use Linux except for all the times linux can't do what windows can![/QUOTE] Use what fits your needs. Period.

[QUOTE=Nabile13;52293459]Use what fits your needs. Period.[/QUOTE] So windows 7? :v:

[QUOTE=MrBunneh;52293522]So windows 7? :v:[/QUOTE] Why are you asking me ? I have Windows 7 for now, but I'll likely migrate to the latest version when I'll have time to waste.

I see at least one person in this thread seems to have GNU/Linux-phobia, it saddens me to see this is still a thing.

I wish this notion that Linux is this abstract, difficult, fragile OS only for power users would disappear. Most of the well-known Linux distros (Ubuntu, Fedora, Mint) etc literally set up everything themselves, to the point where an OOB distro like those would actually be [I]easier[/I] to get running than a Windows install because drivers and software dependencies are so much easier to deal with on Linux. I also literally can't think of an easier way to install software than to type a single line in a command prompt and have my package manager figure it all out for me.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;52293905]I wish this notion that Linux is this abstract, difficult, fragile OS only for power users would disappear. Most of the well-known Linux distros (Ubuntu, Fedora, Mint) etc literally set up everything themselves, to the point where an OOB distro like those would actually be [I]easier[/I] to get running than a Windows install because drivers and software dependencies are so much easier to deal with on Linux.[I] I also literally can't think of an easier way to install software than to type a single line in a command prompt and have my package manager figure it all out for me.[/I][/QUOTE] Personally, I agree. The other day, however, I also had to help my mom find the settings app, on her iPhone. A stunning number of people are stunningly unable to deal with technology. I recall once, when I was working as a tech assistant intern, I was called down because someone broke their "cup holder," and to my horror, when I arrived I saw that someone was using a desktop dvd tray to hold a cup of coffee. A lot of people dont have "technology intuition", they just memorize literally every step of everything they do. They dont want to relearn any of their habits, they want to learn something once, and not deal with it again. That is one big reason why I doubt linux would ever take over. Even if linux were to one day do your taxes and cure cancer, people don't want to change to something new. They just want something to "work."

[QUOTE=Samiam22;52293905]I wish this notion that Linux is this abstract, difficult, fragile OS only for power users would disappear. Most of the well-known Linux distros (Ubuntu, Fedora, Mint) etc literally set up everything themselves, to the point where an OOB distro like those would actually be [I]easier[/I] to get running than a Windows install because drivers and software dependencies are so much easier to deal with on Linux. I also literally can't think of an easier way to install software than to type a single line in a command prompt and have my package manager figure it all out for me.[/QUOTE] It's really not that simple. Whenever I've used a "user friendly" linux distribution like Ubuntu, I've invariably had to fuck around in the terminal to fix something. Either apps would stop installing, or an update failed to apply, or graphics card drivers got completely fucked, etc. This is fine for me because I'm a software developer. But do you honestly expect the average user to be capable of even comprehending [i]what the terminal is[/i], let alone execute a series of complex commands, understand what they're typing, and interpret the results? It's not going to happen.

[QUOTE=geel9;52293973]It's really not that simple. Whenever I've used a "user friendly" linux distribution like Ubuntu, I've invariably had to fuck around in the terminal to fix something. Either apps would stop installing, or an update failed to apply, or graphics card drivers got completely fucked, etc. This is fine for me because I'm a software developer. But do you honestly expect the average user to be capable of even comprehending [i]what the terminal is[/i], let alone execute a series of complex commands, understand what they're typing, and interpret the results? It's not going to happen.[/QUOTE] If any of those things happened to the same person on Windows they'd be just as fucked, though.

[QUOTE=Chubbs;52294045]If any of those things happened to the same person on Windows they'd be just as fucked, though.[/QUOTE] Coincidentally, they don't happen nearly as often, and Windows has had [i]decades[/i] of work put into helping it auto-correct the incompetence of its users.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;52292982] Linux on PC will not be popular for anyone but enthusiasts, because people want to turn their computer on and work, they want to be able to launch things that they download from the internet without wondering "hey, will this work".[/QUOTE] Google Chromebooks Seriously, the people still buying $2000 Macbooks for school are morons. A cheap Chromebook is all you need for > 80% of jobs or classes requiring a computer. The newer ones even run Android Apps, and (if x86), Windows apps via Crossover for Android. Desktop Linux will come eventually so long as Microsoft keeps fucking with enterprise users and the privacy-conscious.

[QUOTE=Michael haxz;52292894]There's no real reason for the home basic user to be tampering with LGP and they can't join domains so it's not too bad that they disabled it there.[/QUOTE] Except it's my computer, not Microsoft's. If I want to risk fucking it up Microsoft's response should be "how badly?" not "sorry, can't let you do that!" It's one thing to make it more complicated for basic users to accidentally screw something up. It's something else altogether if you flat out remove the ability for users of any level of skill. [QUOTE=Foda;52293126]do you know how they fixed all those issues with win8 that people had? they collected data about how people used windows 8 and then made informed decisions. you can't improve UI if you don't know how people use your UI (ie: the old start menu) you can't improve performance if you don't know what's causing slowdowns you can't fix issues with apps/old programs if bug reports are not collected you can't improve battery-life if you don't know what's using CPU both android, osx, and iOS do the same thing and have no way of disabling it. chrome and safari also collect data. also, the title of this article isn't even correct: MS doesn't clam that the settings are ignored. also, are we accepting theinquirer as a news-worthy source now?[/QUOTE] There's a world of difference between asking for data and taking the data though. And in cases such as with Mozilla not only do they ask (only the most basic form is enabled by default and it's easy to disable, just untick a single checkbox in plain sight in the settings) but they also allow you to look at exactly what information they would be receiving as well. Though admittedly [I]that[/I] bit is more hidden away. But it's still completely possible to do so and simple once you actually know how.

[QUOTE=geel9;52293973]It's really not that simple. Whenever I've used a "user friendly" linux distribution like Ubuntu, I've invariably had to fuck around in the terminal to fix something. Either apps would stop installing, or an update failed to apply, or graphics card drivers got completely fucked, etc. This is fine for me because I'm a software developer. But do you honestly expect the average user to be capable of even comprehending [I]what the terminal is[/I], let alone execute a series of complex commands, understand what they're typing, and interpret the results? It's not going to happen.[/QUOTE] But you also have things like octopi on the arches or synaptic on the debians if you need more control over packages but also don't want to use the terminal. Ubuntu has come a long way, and it's so rare that anything you do in the software center breaks that (if you want) you could perfectly use it without touching the terminal, in fact, that's how I got into Linux. I have a 40 years old family friend that has barely any computer experience that recently decided to switch to Linux, I just explained to him that he can just search on the software center and synaptic for the software he needs and 99% of the time it will be there. The good thing is that those people can be up to date without worrying about updating software themselves, because everything is a package conflicts simply do not exist and updating is as automatic as it gets.

Linux is an incredibly hard sell to Windows/Mac users because they have to relearn a lot of things that might seem trivial to you but are difficult and hard to adjust to for others. "An old dog can't learn new tricks" is an adage that has a bit of truth to it, in that relearning computers for someone who A) has no reason to relearn, B) doesn't use them enough to justify the effort, C) is no longer a child/young adult, and D) would need to learn brand new, abstract concepts to use properly, is a monumental effort that needs guidance every step of the way. I bet most of you never sat down with your grandparents and explained how to use folders, clean out an inbox, send a picture in a text message, etc. because they would ask you trivially basic questions that would frustrate you as you couldn't think of a simpler way to describe it, so you end up not bothering. Nearly every senior I teach mentions how kids/grandkids have "no patience" and just zip through and do everything for them, and they basically don't know how to do shit. Now imagine teaching them Linux. Now imagine training an entire company how to use Linux. People in their 30's to 60's and up, who have to learn a brand new operating system, for vague reasons like "security" or "privacy," who are going to need hands on experience, meaning down-time for those employees and expenses related to training. Then imagine trying to sell that idea to a CFO to get them to invest time and money into switching their entire platform over to Linux, dealing with all the driver issues from the various vendors they use for electronics, porting over software that was coded on Windows 98 and slowly patched to get it up to 7, etc. Linux is inherently a hard sell because it's too time consuming and requires too much effort for nebulous benefits.

[QUOTE=eirexe;52294143]But you also have things like octopi on the arches or synaptic on the debians if you need more control over packages but also don't want to use the terminal. Ubuntu has come a long way, and it's so rare that anything you do in the software center breaks that (if you want) you could perfectly use it without touching the terminal, in fact, that's how I got into Linux. I have a 40 years old family friend that has barely any computer experience that recently decided to switch to Linux, I just explained to him that he can just search on the software center and synaptic for the software he needs and 99% of the time it will be there. The good thing is that those people can be up to date without worrying about updating software themselves, because everything is a package conflicts simply do not exist and updating is as automatic as it gets.[/QUOTE] Synaptic isn't user frendly for the end user. It might have worked for your family friend but he would be an edge case - I can guarantee you my mum and dad would never in a million years be able to use synaptic. The closest thing I think you can get to user friendly in linux right now is elementary OS. The new app center they just released is about as closer as linux has come to user friendly installation of packages. Plus it hides so many settings that it's a bit easier to get along with. [editline]31st May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=SleepyAl;52294158]Linux is an incredibly hard sell to Windows/Mac users because they have to relearn a lot of things that might seem trivial to you but are difficult and hard to adjust to for others. "An old dog can't learn new tricks" is an adage that has a bit of truth to it, in that relearning computers for someone who A) has no reason to relearn, B) doesn't use them enough to justify the effort, C) is no longer a child/young adult, and D) would need to learn brand new, abstract concepts to use properly, is a monumental effort that needs guidance every step of the way. I bet most of you never sat down with your grandparents and explained how to use folders, clean out an inbox, send a picture in a text message, etc. because they would ask you trivially basic questions that would frustrate you as you couldn't think of a simpler way to describe it, so you end up not bothering. Nearly every senior I teach mentions how kids/grandkids have "no patience" and just zip through and do everything for them, and they basically don't know how to do shit. Now imagine teaching them Linux. Now imagine training an entire company how to use Linux. People in their 30's to 60's and up, who have to learn a brand new operating system, for vague reasons like "security" or "privacy," who are going to need hands on experience, meaning down-time for those employees and expenses related to training. Then imagine trying to sell that idea to a CFO to get them to invest time and money into switching their entire platform over to Linux, dealing with all the driver issues from the various vendors they use for electronics, porting over software that was coded on Windows 98 and slowly patched to get it up to 7, etc. Linux is inherently a hard sell because it's too time consuming and requires too much effort for nebulous benefits.[/QUOTE] Plus, while I love open source and it's the hill I would die on, try getting support for a linux distribution from someone over the phone. That's a really bloody hard sell. People I know call microsoft support or their ISP when their internet breaks. They're not going to be googling stack overflow to figure out some esoteric synchronisation error in their package manager that's stopping them from installing spotify

[QUOTE=Alice3173;52294082]Except it's my computer, not Microsoft's. If I want to risk fucking it up Microsoft's response should be "how badly?" not "sorry, can't let you do that!" It's one thing to make it more complicated for basic users to accidentally screw something up. It's something else altogether if you flat out remove the ability for users of any level of skill. There's a world of difference between asking for data and taking the data though. And in cases such as with Mozilla not only do they ask (only the most basic form is enabled by default and it's easy to disable, just untick a single checkbox in plain sight in the settings) but they also allow you to look at exactly what information they would be receiving as well. Though admittedly [I]that[/I] bit is more hidden away. But it's still completely possible to do so and simple once you actually know how.[/QUOTE] The reality is that you own a software license that grants you the right to use their software. Microsoft owns their product, and the law could very well be on their side to fuck with their users. You voted with your wallet.

[QUOTE=geel9;52293973]It's really not that simple. Whenever I've used a "user friendly" linux distribution like Ubuntu, I've invariably had to fuck around in the terminal to fix something. Either apps would stop installing, or an update failed to apply, or graphics card drivers got completely fucked, etc. This is fine for me because I'm a software developer. But do you honestly expect the average user to be capable of even comprehending [i]what the terminal is[/i], let alone execute a series of complex commands, understand what they're typing, and interpret the results? It's not going to happen.[/QUOTE] Ubuntu these days is different (and worse imo) because Canonical is trying to reinvent the wheel with stuff like the software distribution app that does nothing but add a buggy and confusing GUI to an already working paradigm. Ubuntu has been losing popularity among the Linux userbase for a whole in favour of Mint (which is currently sitting at the top of distrowatch.com and has done for a pretty long time by now), which is backed by a development team using basically all the same software but they make considerably fewer bone-headed decisions. Graphics cards drivers failing to install properly is, 9 times out of 10, the result of having to manually bugger around with multilib stuff (like Debian) or using one of the distros with heavy FOSS principles (also like Debian), and it doesn't happen with distros like Mint, which come with easy to use solutions to get video drivers working. While I admit getting graphics cards drivers to work on Linux can be a pain, this isn't something non-power users will even have to worry about because Linux distros come with drivers for CPU integrated graphics, and someone who is using a dedicated graphics card on Linux more than likely knows what he's doing. Sometime last year, I installed Linux (the Zorin distro) on my sister's computer because she needed to reformat for whatever reason. I had originally reinstalled Windows, but after booting it up and seeing that both the monitor and wireless drivers weren't working properly, I couldn't be bothered trying to fix them and just installed Linux. All she does with her computer is go on tumblr and draw on her tablet (which came with drivers on Linux), yet she hasn't had any issues with it. She is by no means a power user, and she hasn't run into any difficulty with it. I can understand a software developer running into issues needing to be debugged, but the average user will only need a few core programs (a web browser, a media player, and all the obvious utilities like a file browser and whatnot) and when your system is kept as simple as that, problems will be rare.

[QUOTE=Nabile13;52294232]The reality is that you own a software license that grants you the right to use their software. Microsoft owns their product, and the law could very well be on their side to fuck with their users. You voted with your wallet.[/QUOTE] Which is pretty indefensible regardless. The single biggest argument for software licenses is antipiracy measures which is irrelevant here. And while the US is pretty outdated on that subject, the EU and Australia and other first world nations have been pushing against that view from what I've read over the past few years anyways. Even if the law does say they're 100% in the right here I'd still have to disagree. The law would be wrong in that case and thus would need to be updated. [editline]30th May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Samiam22;52294385]Ubuntu these days is different (and worse imo) because Canonical is trying to reinvent the wheel with stuff like the software distribution app that does nothing but add a buggy and confusing GUI to an already working paradigm. Ubuntu has been losing popularity among the Linux userbase for a whole in favour of Mint (which is currently sitting at the top of distrowatch.com and has done for a pretty long time by now), which is backed by a development team using basically all the same software but they make considerably fewer bone-headed decisions.[/QUOTE] From what I've read, Canonical isn't actually a whole lot better with Ubuntu than Microsoft is with Windows 10. They track your actions a lot and send a lot of telemetry as well. I believe you can actually disable it there but it being Linux it tends to be more complicated than necessary.

[QUOTE=Alice3173;52294484]Which is pretty indefensible regardless. The single biggest argument for software licenses is antipiracy measures which is irrelevant here. And while the US is pretty outdated on that subject, the EU and Australia and other first world nations have been pushing against that view from what I've read over the past few years anyways. Even if the law does say they're 100% in the right here I'd still have to disagree. The law would be wrong in that case and thus would need to be updated.[/QUOTE] Not disputing that at all. Just stating the fact of the matter. And honestly, with how stellar the US government is, it's hardly believable that corporations will change for the better.

[QUOTE=TestECull;52292911]Because I also fucking love playing Fallout: New Vegas, and good fucking luck getting that running on anything that isn't Windows.[/QUOTE] I didn't really need luck, honestly. I'm running Xubuntu 16.04 here, installed PlayOnLinux and installed it. Then I used the latest version of wine at the time as specified very clearly how to do, and it just works. Out of the box. If I have to tweak anything, more than often I won't even go there. Fallout:NV works flawlessly, really. Shortlist of specs AMD FX 8350 @4Ghz AMD Radeon HD 7770 16GB DDR3 Seagate Firecuda 2TB SSHD There's certainly nothing fancy going on here in terms of hardware, but it runs perfectly smooth (as smooth as Fallout:NV can run anyway), with the DLC I need. [editline]31st May 2017[/editline] I am a Linux power user, but not at home. If I have to fiddle, the product has failed. I still have a home entertainment gaming console system based on Linux, and use Linux exclusively with both Wine and native gaming. More often than not, controllers will just work in games. I don't have to fiddle with anything like 360ce either. [editline]31st May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Alice3173;52294484] From what I've read, Canonical isn't actually a whole lot better with Ubuntu than Microsoft is with Windows 10. They track your actions a lot and send a lot of telemetry as well. I believe you can actually disable it there but it being Linux it tends to be more complicated than necessary.[/QUOTE] There's no telemetry. They had a version of Ubuntu ship with some telemetry-like stuff, where searching would also search Amazon. You could just disable that though, and it isn't even a thing in anything past Ubuntu 14.04.

[QUOTE=Alice3173;52294484]From what I've read, Canonical isn't actually a whole lot better with Ubuntu than Microsoft is with Windows 10. They track your actions a lot and send a lot of telemetry as well. I believe you can actually disable it there but it being Linux it tends to be more complicated than necessary.[/QUOTE] Not true anymore, and when it was, greatly exaggerated (though still kinda sketchy). Canonical added some kind of search engine tracking linked to Amazon in an Ubuntu release in late 2012 or so, which would send search results to Amazon and then they'd target advertising towards you. If you bought anything that way, Canonical took a cut. They were quite upfront about it, and you could disable it (though it was enabled by default), but it led the EFF as well as Richard Stallman and Co to come down like a ton of bricks.

[QUOTE=Samiam22;52294706]Not true anymore, and when it was, greatly exaggerated (though still kinda sketchy). Canonical added some kind of search engine tracking linked to Amazon in an Ubuntu release in late 2012 or so, which would send search results to Amazon and then they'd target advertising towards you. If you bought anything that way, Canonical took a cut. They were quite upfront about it, and you could disable it (though it was enabled by default), but it led the EFF as well as Richard Stallman and Co to come down like a ton of bricks.[/QUOTE] Well I'm not too surprised it got changed since you'd kinda expect it to be pretty unpopular with a lot of their users. Was it really [I]five[/I] years ago now though? I felt like it was just last year or the year before, lol.

Can vouch for manjaro being great, hell use the i3 community edition if you want to try a tiling window manager, its very friendly once you get used to it.

[QUOTE=Nookyava;52293236]One frustrating thing (which has no bearing on the current topic) that Microsoft has been doing is that in the latest version of Windows (The Creative Update IIRC) it replaces programs + features with Apps, and removes Control Panel. Utterly annoying as the quickest way I've been using to get around is to right click my windows logo and get to what I need to.[/QUOTE] Did they remove the Control Panel on the Home version? I still have it on the Pro version.

[QUOTE=Zet;52294904]Did they remove the Control Panel on the Home version? I still have it on the Pro version.[/QUOTE] They still exist in home, they just replaced the entries on the menu that pops up when you right-click the windows icon ("Programs and Features" is now "Apps and Features" and "Control Panel" is now "Settings").

[QUOTE=nutcake;52292668]And with Microsoft also pushing the Windows Store more and more, thus pissing of Valve, this finally has to be the year of the Linux desktop! :xfiles:[/QUOTE] One could only dream for Linux to become a second supported platform by Triple A devs for future games, and previous games updated to have it

Is there a certain update which makes Windows ignore group policy settings or... So far everything I have turned off in GPE (Cortana, OneDrive, Telemetry, GameDVR, and more ), and thus far nothing has turned itself back on, nor I have noticed these thing reappear. Tho I have also blocked loads of Microsoft IP's among others in hosts file. Running Enterprise LTSB [editline]31st May 2017[/editline] Read more into this myself, also the HackerNews link Kiwi posted. Apparently LTSB is safe for now from this meddling.

People talking about how hard Linux is to teach, check out Linux Lite. It's specifically geared towards beginners to Linux and computing. I got a family member who can't even figure out the damn remote control for the television using it and even they can work it. Literally the only time they asked for help for the computer was when they accidentally flicked the physical wireless switch off and couldn't access the internet. [editline]31st May 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=TestECull;52292911]Because I also fucking love playing Fallout: New Vegas, and good fucking luck getting that running on anything that isn't Windows.[/QUOTE] As an experiment I tried getting it working on a 5 year old i3 integrated graphics Fedora laptop a few months back. I installed Wine-staging, dropped all the graphics down to minimum, and got it running at around 15 fps. Really wasn't that hard and this was hardware clearly not intended to run the game.

[QUOTE=Nabile13;52293403]Well tough luck for you, I have no problems running my games using Wine. And when all else fails, you either keep a Windows partition around for running the games that don't run natively or through Wine, or you use GPU passthrough on a virtual machine. But of course you're free to stay on the platform of [i]your[/i] choice, it's not like I'm imposing anything :)[/QUOTE] You sure as shit are imposing. Why the fuck would I dualboot? It makes no sense to use linux for the internet then reboot my machine to play a game then reboot again to browse the net. And apparently you missed where I said I dont have the raw HP for emulation, but I mean, sure, if you think an AMD tricore on 8gb of ram and a ten year old platter drive can run modern games in an emulator.... W7 gives me all ths control I want and need over my system. It doesnt do anything I dont tell it to do, lets me set it up exactly how I like and want it, and.....well, just works. I dont have to fuck with command lines to install things, I dont have to worry about game compatibility, I dont have to worry about whether or not the linux driver for a given device is worth anything, I dont need a built in emulator to run shit. For my usage W7 is just simply better than any Linux distro and no amount of aggressive insistence is going to change that. If anything, pushing Linux as hard as you are is going to make me want to use it even less. I've been shooting down this argument for over a decade now. The only change that has happened between then and now is the version of Windows.