Mass Shooting in Las Vegas - 58 Dead at Least 515 Injured, Suspect Killed - Sensationalist Headlines

Christ, watching the videos right now. Everytime I hear the gunfire my heart just sinks. It's terrifying.

[QUOTE=Aman;52738083]What exactly is there to change. It's hard to legislate against single digit crazy people with the balls to do something like this.[/QUOTE] Mental health care, veterans care, gun control, the holy trifecta of things USA just straight up chose to ignore, and continues to. I'm sorry if my first post came across as sensationalist, I've been following this all night and I'm just angry and sad, mostly sad. Over 50 lives lost, it's disgusting. When is the time to talk about how to prevent this if not now.

This is just awful to hear. It must be terrible for the families going through this right now.

[QUOTE=Raptor_S;52738109]Mental health care, veterans care, gun control, the holy trifecta of things USA just straight up chose to ignore, and continues to. I'm sorry if my first post came across as sensationalist, I've been following this all night and I'm just angry and sad, mostly sad. Over 50 lives lost, it's disgusting. When is the time to talk about how to prevent this if not now.[/QUOTE] Point is preventing something like this really is quite impossible, which brings about the hopelessness feeling, but it really is. One determined person can achieve a lot, regardless of laws. But yeah sure, I get it. Like people on Twitter saying "lol this doesn't happen in Canada!" , Yeah but it just as easily could. Theres no real barrier stopping me from being some mass shooter, the barrier is I'm not an evil crazy person, but the knowledge and ability is there and I'm sure it's there for many people, which is kinda scary. You put faith in your fellow man to not be insane. But such is life living with freedom.

Hate to say it, but if the shooter was brown, everyone would 100% instantly call this terrorism and all the news comments would be complaining about "multiculturalism" just like the BS in the Marseille thread. RIP to all involved.

holy shit, 50 fucking people in the blink of an eye, GONE

[QUOTE=Aman;52738118]Point is preventing something like this really is quite impossible, which brings about the hopelessness feeling, but it really is. One determined person can achieve a lot, regardless of laws. But yeah sure, I get it. Like people on Twitter saying "lol this doesn't happen in Canada!" , Yeah but it just as easily could. Theres no real barrier stopping me, the barrier is I'm not an evil crazy person, but the knowledge and ability is there and I'm sure it's there for many people, which is kinda scary.[/QUOTE] If it's a machine gun, they're already extremely heavily regulated. I own an open bolt MG (WW2 vintage, parts kit) and will never get to see it in one piece or working because of all the red tape around them. No amount of perseverance and dedication on my part will ever enable me to finish and fire this weapon. They're literally locked by federal law to a specific class of people, either old farts who bought them before they were banned or the super rich. There's no way to prevent some fringe loon from completing a parts kit illegally and using it for this kind of thing, it's just not happened yet. This type of attack could happen anywhere else, and I'm not just saying that. Something like a PKM parts kit would be legal in any Commonwealth country and most European nations too, lots of people buy them and build them into inert display items but it only takes one industrious lunatic to build them as live fire weapons.

I dunno why I watched the video in the OP, the machine gun going off made my heart sink into my stomach

[QUOTE=Raptor_S;52738109]Mental health care, veterans care, gun control, the holy trifecta of things USA just straight up chose to ignore, and continues to. I'm sorry if my first post came across as sensationalist, I've been following this all night and I'm just angry and sad, mostly sad. Over 50 lives lost, it's disgusting. When is the time to talk about how to prevent this if not now.[/QUOTE] It runs way, way deeper than just gun control. US gun culture fetishises gun ownership and borderline worships The Gun religiously. You can see this in how people defend the right to own guns. Without the freedom to own guns, you cannot truly secure yourself from the threat of the government turning authoritarian and oppressing the populace, nor can you ever really be safe from criminals in your own home or out on the streets. When it comes to issues such as rampant crime and gang violence, instead of pushing for constructive and sustainable solutions such as increased police presence to curb crime, and infrastructural improvements to lift the economy of an area and lower poverty, gun lobbyists insist that putting guns into the hands of even more people is the best solution. Never mind the fact that this is merely a stopgap measure that doesn't target the root causes.

I can't imagine what the hospitals are like... Hundreds of people coming in at once...

holy shit cnn saying many guns were found in the room

[QUOTE=Grenadiac;52738128]If it's a machine gun, they're already extremely heavily regulated. I own an open bolt MG (WW2 vintage, parts kit) and will never get to see it in one piece or working because of all the red tape around them. No amount of perseverance and dedication on my part will ever enable me to finish and fire this weapon. They're literally locked by federal law to a specific class of people, either old farts who bought them before they were banned or the super rich. There's no way to prevent some fringe loon from completing a parts kit illegally and using it for this kind of thing, it's just not happened yet. This type of attack could happen anywhere else, and I'm not just saying that. Something like a PKM parts kit would be legal in any Commonwealth country and most European nations too, lots of people buy them and build them into inert display items but it only takes one industrious lunatic to build them as live fire weapons.[/QUOTE] And that's the point, if I don't give a shit about laws give me an AR platform and a couple of hours and it'll be full auto.

[QUOTE=jung3o;52738138]holy shit cnn saying many guns were found in the room[/QUOTE] I've also heard that he had surveillance cameras outside his room too, so he knew exactly when the cops were coming.

[QUOTE=Aman;52738118]Point is preventing something like this really is quite impossible, which brings about the hopelessness feeling, but it really is. One determined person can achieve a lot, regardless of laws. But yeah sure, I get it. Like people on Twitter saying "lol this doesn't happen in Canada!" , Yeah but it just as easily could. Theres no real barrier stopping me, the barrier is I'm not an evil crazy person, but the knowledge and ability is there and I'm sure it's there for many people, which is kinda scary.[/QUOTE] You are proving my point, you are not an evil crazy person. The reason why you are not an evil crazy person is because if you ever felt like you are going crazy, you are encouraged to take advantage of a working mental health care system present in your country. Mass shooters aren't "evil monsters", they don't just pop up, they are people, molded by their environment. And in the "right" circumstances, with the "right" factors, you get a killer. Deranged, broken, sometimes trying to prove something, or maybe just obsessed with the cult of mass murder. The point is, there are barriers stopping you. They are not physical, but mental, built there by your environment.

[QUOTE=OvB;52738137]I can't imagine what the hospitals are like... Hundreds of people coming in at once...[/QUOTE] [URL="https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/914833770079035392"] It seems 406 transported to hospital[/URL] My god...

Injury count has been updated from 250 to 406. [url]http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/las-vegas-shooting-latest-news-updates-injured-mandalay-bay-concert-number-hospital-a7978816.html[/url]

Holy shit I am horrified one guy could do that much

[QUOTE=Aman;52738142]And that's the point, if I don't give a shit about laws give me an AR platform and a couple of hours and it'll be full auto.[/QUOTE] Current production ARs are not easy to convert to F/A without remanufacturing much of the trigger group. At some point in the 70s or 80s the ATF cracked down on it. With old pattern ARs you can do it easily with a little piece of tin in a certain place. But those guns are collectibles now and don't handle full auto fire very well. ARs built for select-fire capability are different from the civilian market guns of the 60s-70s. I had a chance to actually watch the videos and I think it's very possible that he was using a belt-fed machine gun. The gun is definitely full automatic. I don't know of any magazine-fed machine guns for which you can get drums over 75rds that actually work well enough to go through the whole thing with no stoppages. Without knowing anything about the shooter's motives, I can't tell you what would have stopped this, but I can tell you everything about his preparation process was highly illegal and already regulated to extremes. I don't think any additional regulation targeting guns would have prevented this attack or any others like it.

[QUOTE=Sweater;52738151][URL="https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/914833770079035392"] It seems 406 transported to hospital[/URL] My god...[/QUOTE] I can't imagine what it's like to be in a typhoon of horror like this.

[QUOTE=Mr.Brown;52738126]holy shit, 50 fucking people in the blink of an eye, GONE[/QUOTE] It's really not the number. It's the way it's done that's shocking.

400 wounded and associated injuries, over 50 dead confirmed by Lombardo

[QUOTE=Steel Geography;52738119]Hate to say it, but if the shooter was brown, everyone would 100% instantly call this terrorism and all the news comments would be complaining about "multiculturalism" just like the BS in the Marseille thread. RIP to all involved.[/QUOTE] People were doing that long before any info at all on the shooter was revealed. In all the horror and confusion I found some small strange amusement in how after the (mis)information(?) broke that the suspect might be Asian the YouTube live stream comments immediately switched from constantly spewing racist vitrol about "mooslems" to spewing racist vitrol about asians. Without missing a beat or stopping to think about their assumptions and how it made them look. Racists are strange creatures.

Heard something on TV about the guys brother saying he "just snapped" and there was no indication he could do something like this. My initial thought is this must be premeditated by some time. I doubt you can get a room in Vegas in short notice during a concert that's across the road. Police are saying he had up to 10 guns with him, cameras, platforms, etc. He definitely thought about this for quite some time. He had a motive for this.

[QUOTE=Mr Kotov;52738158]Holy shit I am horrified one guy could do that much[/QUOTE] Based on that video early in the thread, it's hard to imagine [I]not[/I] doing that much damage with a crowd so densely packed and so many rounds fired.

Jesus if you go on the Snapchat map feature and click on Las Vegas you can see just how crazy everything is up close.

[QUOTE=Aman;52738118]Point is preventing something like this really is quite impossible... But such is life living with freedom.[/QUOTE] Are you absolutely fucking kidding me? Proper mental health care is "quite impossible"? Proper care of returning and retired veterans is "quite impossible"? [QUOTE=Aman;52738118]Like people on Twitter saying "lol this doesn't happen in Canada!" , Yeah but it just as easily could. [/QUOTE] Absolutely not! it can happen. but not as easily. Much like the rest of the industrialized world, they have access to mental health and therapy without stigma, they care for their veterans, they value fact-driven news, rather than screaming cults of personality driving emotions to a fever pitch. Asolutely fucking NOT "just as likely" and if you think so, you're part of the problem! [QUOTE=Aman;52738118]You put faith in your fellow man to not be insane. But such is life living with freedom.[/QUOTE] And they put their faith in you voting for better treatment and care, better medication, better awareness. Looks like right now, you all misplaced that faith. But you can change that. Be better informed, vote with mind and heart. The mind for factually sound legislation, driven by reason and based on your hearts compassion for your neighbour. Stop being irresponsible and stop throwing your hands in the air when shit inevitably goes wrong! Stop being indirectly complicit in this bullshit by just standing by. Fuck gun-control debate. This is the real issue: Zero solidarity, no regard for the personal well-being of others, constant attack/deflect based political debate, Angry, loud news personalities and no regard for facts. These are not values. It's all bullshit driven by misplaced pride in the status quo. This can only be changed by facing up to the current state of affairs and changing it. Things are not OK. Flint is still fucked and millions of US citizens are waiting in PR for aid that's not coming. Things are not up to par. America is falling short!

[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;52738173]Based on that video early in the thread, it's hard to imagine [I]not[/I] doing that much damage with a crowd so densely packed and so many rounds fired.[/QUOTE] It was also practically impossible for him to miss a shot, crowd packed so tight he might as well have blindfolded himself.

[QUOTE=Aman;52738118]Theres no real barrier stopping me from being some mass shooter, the barrier is I'm not an evil crazy person[/QUOTE] That's a very black and white way of viewing why people do horrible things.

[QUOTE=OvB;52738171]Heard something on TV about the guys brother saying he "just snapped" and there was no indication he could do something like this. My initial thought is this must be premeditated by some time. I doubt you can get a room in Vegas in short notice during a concert that's across the road. Police are saying he had up to 10 guns with him, cameras, platforms, etc. He definitely thought about this for quite some time. He had a motive for this.[/QUOTE] It was definitely premeditated but plenty of mass murderers have "snapped" and carefully planned their acts out beforehand. I'm going to play armchair psychologist for a bit and say with this kind of event the target is normally a place rather than a specific group of people. This also gives them time to back out, spend months maybe aquiring the tools and planning, always saying "tomorrow's the day I'll do it" it's much easier to have your murder spree on your own time when your target is a structure that doesn't move and is often filled with a lot of people. For all we know he thought the music was corrupting his soul and condemning him to hell and he wanted to put a stop to it maybe not today or this week or this month but eventually. Being a fruitcase and being impulsive aren't mutually exclusive.

[QUOTE=Bomimo;52738176] Stop being indirectly complicit in this bullshit by just standing by. Fuck gun-control debate. This is the real issue: Zero solidarity, no regard for the personal well-being of others, constant attack/deflect based political debate, Angry, loud news personalities and no regard for facts. These are not values. It's all bullshit driven by misplaced pride in the status quo.[/QUOTE] Sure. I'm not really disagreeing with anything you said. But your condemnation of "constant attack based politics" while labeling me part of the problem, complicit in bullshit, etc. is kinda funny.