Mass Shooting in Las Vegas - 58 Dead at Least 515 Injured, Suspect Killed - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=RichyZ;52739215]the average american won't even touch their car for an oil change, do you really think some unhinged dude is gonna spend all that time machining a sten in their garage (there will always be an outlier case like that, but the average spree killer just seems unlikely to), and $1000 is still a ton more than it would cost for me to get an ak from a redneck[/QUOTE] The average american isn't going on a shooting spree killing 50+ people and wounding 4 times as many.

[QUOTE=butre;52739223]even if it happens a million times, there are roughly 380 million firearms in the united states. .26% is still a statistical anomaly.[/QUOTE] Not when you compare the rates to other countries, the US really sticks out when it comes to things like this.

I understand that suppressors only reduce the sound by a certain amount, but it may have made it take slightly longer to find the shooter

[QUOTE=RichyZ;52739215]the average american won't even touch their car for an oil change, do you really think some unhinged dude is gonna spend all that time machining a sten in their garage (there will always be an outlier case like that, but the average spree killer just seems unlikely to), and $1000 is still a ton more than it would cost for me to get an ak from a redneck[/QUOTE] I've spent close to 10 grand on my gun collection, and any redneck worth his salt will tell you they've done the same. if you told every redneck in the world what I posted Bridgeport would become the most valuable company in the world overnight.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;52739203]you can't possibly try to equate a homemade gun with a professionally tooled tried and tested design if this dude used a homebrewed mac10 or tec9 equivalent, theres no way he'd get the same numbers it also takes pretty expensive tools and a good amount of technical knowhow to make a decent gun, and not just some 1 shot zipgun[/QUOTE] You can make a tried and tested design because the parts and blueprints for them exist everywhere. Plus you don't need to be the one to build it, just the one to buy it. What do you think will happen to the tens of thousands of gunsmiths in the event of a mass banning/confiscation?

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;52739236]I understand that suppressors only reduce the sound by a certain amount, but it may have made it take slightly longer to find the shooter[/QUOTE] they found him because the gunpowder set off the smoke alarm in his room, not because they had some dude who could magically track audio bouncing around Las Vegas of all places. if you're ever on the wrong end of a gun youll know the sound is coming from everywhere and it's impossible to pinpoint a location.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;52739240]i dont know what your point is here, i've dealt with a ton of guns myself, i dont see a sten being capable of the same killing capacity as a bumpfire ak or whatever was fired from that high up of a hotel a sightless smg with pistol caliber rounds just seems like a really awful way to try and pull this off with any great success[/QUOTE] He was firing into a crowd of people bud, you don't exactly need exemplary accuracy from a custom built bench gun. A sten with a dozen magazines will get you the similar results, and a sten is basically 2 tubes and a spring. The fact of the matter is is that a mass ban won't solve jack shit in the overall scheme of things. Gun violence is the consequence of a greater problem, and banning guns does nothing to treat the problem. This has been proven with the 1994 decade long AWB that every government agency that examined it stated it did nothing to aid any problem. [editline]2nd October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=RichyZ;52739247]gunsmiths still have a job because gun clubs and ranges would still exist, guns would just be kept at them like in the uk (ideally anyway) a total confiscation and dismantling of every gun in the us is an asinine idea, but at least trying to stem the tide of the problem getting even bigger is a goal that could be achieved[/QUOTE] A partial confiscation and a full confiscation are equally as dumb. "Stemming the tide of the problem" by confiscating and banning is downright foolish and is proven not to do a damn thing.

what is the chance of this guy having a belt-fed machine gun

[QUOTE=RichyZ;52739258]i want to see a 60 year old dude trying to carry a dozen magazines running into a crowd of people with a sten (not really but picture it) it just seems a bit less effective than firing some sort of ak/ar from a hotel room far far away with much greater precision and with much more effective payloads[/QUOTE] Why do you assume he wouldnt be in the hotel room with the sten?

[QUOTE=RichyZ;52739240]i dont know what your point is here, i've dealt with a ton of guns myself, i dont see a sten being capable of the same killing capacity as a bumpfire ak or whatever was fired from that high up of a hotel a sightless smg with pistol caliber rounds just seems like a really awful way to try and pull this off with any great success[/QUOTE] I take it a sten isnt one of those guns you've dealt with, otherwise you'd know that they do in fact have sights. it was just an example anyway. you could build a browning m2 with the same tooling and the only additional technical skill you need is a couple extra minutes of practice.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;52739258]i want to see a 60 year old dude trying to carry a dozen magazines running into a crowd of people with a sten (not really but picture it) it just seems a bit less effective than firing some sort of ak/ar from a hotel room far far away with much greater precision and with much more effective payloads[/QUOTE] Why in your scenario can he not be firing from the hotel room still? Do you think real life is like video games where pistol caliber weapons have a damage fall off past 10 feet? [editline]2nd October 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;52739259]what is the chance of this guy having a belt-fed machine gun[/QUOTE] Pretty decent. Pointless to speculate until we know for sure. It could be an AR with a bumpfire stock, an AKM with a piece of shoestring with 2 loops on the end, or any number of things. We're better off waiting until a press release.

[QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;52739259]what is the chance of this guy having a belt-fed machine gun[/QUOTE] Not very likely at all IMO. Seems more likely that he had large 60+ round magazines and some sort of illegal modification to normal semi-auto rifles that made them fire full-auto.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;52739247]gunsmiths still have a job because gun clubs and ranges would still exist, guns would just be kept at them like in the uk (ideally anyway) a total confiscation and dismantling of every gun in the us is an asinine idea, but at least trying to stem the tide of the problem getting even bigger is a goal that could be achieved[/QUOTE] aha wanting me to keep my property at some place I don't own or have 24/7 access to so we can protect the children what kind of Statist shit is this

[QUOTE=RichyZ;52739203]you can't possibly try to equate a homemade gun with a professionally tooled tried and tested design if this dude used a homebrewed mac10 or tec9 equivalent, theres no way he'd get the same numbers it also takes pretty expensive tools and a good amount of technical knowhow to make a decent gun, and not just some 1 shot zipgun[/QUOTE] You talk like an indevidual cannot have sufficient knowledge and equipment to do anything. Firearms are incredibly simple devices. If you have access to a lathe and an endmill you could build belt feed machine guns all day. It's not like someone have to start from scratch either. There's more than enough parts to take a demilled AK and reactivate it floating around the country.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;52739258]it just seems a bit less effective than firing some sort of ak/ar from a hotel room far far away with much greater precision and with much more effective payloads[/QUOTE] The "effectiveness" doesn't really matter much when you're firing into a crowd of completely unprotected people. A 400m/s 9mm round is, for all intents and purposes, as lethal as a 900m/s 5.56 round.

[QUOTE=Protocol7;52739270]Not very likely at all. Seems likely that he had large 60+ round magazines and some sort of illegal modification to normal semi-auto rifles that made them fire full-auto.[/QUOTE] I still think it was belt feed. couldve been a shrike upper or something. drum mags are unreliable and high capacity box mags are even worse. I guess something like a p90 is within the realm of possibilities too but I wouldn't count on it

[QUOTE=RichyZ;52739222]you have to tackle the issue from all fronts, the 4 main ones being public perception of/gun culture, the public's perception of mental illness, and the legalities related to both of them if you don't deal with the first two, the second two will never work[/QUOTE] Fuck, the perception of the gun culture is half the battle there. Usually you change the perception of something you remove the glorification of such, and thus you at least take out a big chunk of gun crime/accidents/statistics.

When I went to bed the thread title said 20 dead. I wake up and its now over 50. God damn, my heart sank a bit when I saw that number. 20 already made me feel pretty shitty, but 58? Fuck dude. Just fuck.

[QUOTE=butre;52739281]I still think it was belt feed. couldve been a shrike upper or something. drum mags are unreliable and high capacity box mags are even worse. I guess something like a p90 is within the realm of possibilities too but I wouldn't count on it[/QUOTE] Some people think since the RoF was somewhat inconsistent, he could have machined his own crank mechanism turning an AR-style rifle into some crude gatling gun, but like Cyke lon bee said we really won't know and there's no point in speculating.

[QUOTE=butre;52739152]the thing is, lawmakers don't have any better ideas than you or I do. we're all thinking with human brains, only difference is that lawmakers are better at wording things in absolute terms.[/QUOTE] That seems like a silly statement to make. I'm sure there are proposals coming from many different avenues with different ideas from people who have experience and are much better educated on these situations than I am. Otherwise they probably shouldn't be lawmakers?

[QUOTE=Protocol7;52739293]Some people think since the RoF was somewhat inconsistent, he could have machined his own crank mechanism turning an AR-style rifle into some crude gatling gun, but like Cyke lon bee said we really won't know and there's no point in speculating.[/QUOTE] rate of fire inconsistancies are part and parcel to belt feed weapons.

[QUOTE=butre;52739152]the thing is, lawmakers don't have any better ideas than you or I do. we're all thinking with human brains, only difference is that lawmakers are better at wording things in absolute terms.[/QUOTE] some brains are better than others tho

Yeah, just turn over your guns and trust the federal government. Currently run by Trump. No thanks.

[QUOTE=Pascall;52739296]That seems like a silly statement to make. I'm sure there are proposals coming from many different avenues with different ideas from people who have experience and are much better educated on these situations than I am. Otherwise they probably shouldn't be lawmakers?[/QUOTE] lawmakers are still human, and just as capable of knee jerk reactions and emotional responses as you or me.

[QUOTE=butre;52739183]making it harder to buy guns only makes it harder for people that can't afford to get through the red tape to get their hands on them. would you suggest that a man living in for example oakland, who works 40 hours a week to put food on the table for his wife and children, and is still barely making enough to scrape by, should be deprived of his right to self defense and of the right to defend his family? just because some statistical anomaly got dianne feinstein's panties in a twist? I would hope not. for the record, I find picturing dianne feinstein's panties to be just as disturbing and repulsive as you do.[/QUOTE] Something like a gun should be a privilege. Something that is capable of this kind of thing should be something you have to prove you understand, and prove you are fit to use it. It's not a bloody toy. Sure illegal firearms will always be a thing but it's not an all or nothing thing. If you make it much harder for people to get them, then you will see a lot less events like this, and more than likely lower death tolls.

[QUOTE=Headhumpy;52739299]some brains are better than others tho[/QUOTE] not many of the better brains have ever made it into politics

[QUOTE=Pascall;52739296]That seems like a silly statement to make. I'm sure there are proposals coming from many different avenues with different ideas from people who have experience and are much better educated on these situations than I am. Otherwise they probably shouldn't be lawmakers?[/QUOTE] No shit they shouldn't be lawmakers, thats the point. Lawmakers form and vote on legislation over things they know very little or nothing about. Theres an entire series of videos from ban states where legislators are describing gun legislation and they know absolutely nothing about the subject.

The lines are getting insanely long here in Vegas. According to my mom, people are being asked to make appointments instead because it's got something to do with blood going bad? I don't really know what this means, but I tried to give blood earlier this morning to an American Red Cross that wasn't accepting blood until tomorrow. Weird. Interestingly enough, I showed up with a couple tourists who literally took a taxi from their hotel down to donate blood. That's cool - I believe they took a taxi to another place that donated blood.

The reaction to this shooting is disturbing(not here obviously). Richard Dawkins mocking the dead. A CBS exec got fired for hoping most of the country music crowd were Trump supporters. Tons of people making this a race thing and celebrating the deaths of white people. And ofcourse the poltards playing FBI and calling this another false flag like Sandy Hook. Fuck is wrong with people.

[QUOTE=butre;52739301]lawmakers are still human, and just as capable of knee jerk reactions and emotional responses as you or me.[/QUOTE] I'm not arguing that, I'm just saying that there are probably many ideas that are either being stifled, not making it into hearing range, or just haven't gained enough traction to be noticed. To say that lawmakers don't have any better ideas is more than likely untrue.