Ex-Arizona cop acquitted in fatal shooting of sobbing, unarmed man at hotel - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Bomimo;52961262]Man. From where I'm sitting. America just went from Tourist "un-friendly" to "fuck that shit". Right next to the middle-east and fucking Sudan and North Korea. Not about to risk my fucking neck to see some smoke and mirrors "freedom". Shit is going south and I'm scared as fuck of your country and your insane arms-race. Always have been. Just a note, Freedom-sniffers: Paranoia is supposed to be a mental disorder, not a lifestyle.[/QUOTE] Ok cool. You do this in every thread to show how much you’re scared of America and how it’s apparently hell given a flag, and then you don’t post about it anymore. I mean I’m glad your variety of word choices are expanding, there’s that at least.

[QUOTE=_Axel;52960277]That's fair but I'm not going to watch a video of a literal execution that several posters have already described as horrific.[/QUOTE] "I'm not going to view the video in question, but I'll still argue about it" [QUOTE=_Axel;52961231]Okay, can someone explain to me why this is a thing? Why officers should prioritize their own life over everyone they've pledged to protect in the first place? I would've thought priority would be given to minimizing innocent civilians' deaths, not to shoot them to death as soon as they make a move that could [I]eventually[/I] lead to threatening the cops. For instance, why do they get to shoot people as soon as their hand approaches their waistband? One poster explained earlier that it's basically impossible to quickdraw and shoot a cop so why don't they give a sommation first or wait until they actually see a weapon? This is the same shit as when that jumpy cop shot a guy who was reaching for his driver's license repeatedly (when there was a fucking baby in the car no less)[/QUOTE] Can you really not understand why a person wouldn't want to die? And it's not impossible to ~quickdraw~ on somebody, and I'm not going to explain why its better to be safe than sorry. In this specific scenario, the police involved were grade-A idiots, overly cautious, and treating the scared and intoxicated like geniuses. [editline]9th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Bomimo;52961262]Man. From where I'm sitting. America just went from Tourist "un-friendly" to "fuck that shit". Right next to the middle-east and fucking Sudan and North Korea. Not about to risk my fucking neck to see some smoke and mirrors "freedom". Shit is going south and I'm scared as fuck of your country and your insane arms-race. Always have been. Just a note, Freedom-sniffers: Paranoia is supposed to be a mental disorder, not a lifestyle.[/QUOTE] Imagine writing off an entire country because of one isolated incident lol. Get real dood

[QUOTE=Petrussen;52959655]I'm so glad I don't live in the US. What a joke of a nation it has become.[/QUOTE] As a kid, I loved the USA whenever I saw it on TV or heard about it. Now every news article reminds me on how the post 9/11 trauma really turned it into a shitshow. [QUOTE=$$>MUFFIN<$$;52961026]It doesn't matter how many times he might comply. As a cop arriving at a completly alien scene you treat everyone the same. And you treat them that at any moment for no reason they might pull a gun and shoot you.[/QUOTE] As a police officer representing the law, you do not treat someone like a piece of garbage whilst being on a power trip. Clear instructions, deescalation - done This was not professional, in a way I'd even call it sadistic.

[QUOTE=$$>MUFFIN<$$;52961054]Or the guy could have crawled forward and not reached for his waist. Exactly as he was told not to do 10 seconds earlier. He acknologed the officer when he did it the first time. It was a mistake on his part, and it cost him his life. It's a sad event.[/QUOTE] Wickedplayer? Is that you?

I know this is a horrible comparison to make and I'm saying it to show how fucking horrible this is, but the unreasonably complicated movement demands backed with the threat of death reminds me of fucking 12-year old prison guards on CSS jailbreak servers. Except, ya know, these guys have real guns.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52961454]Imagine writing off an entire country because of one isolated incident lol. Get real dood[/QUOTE] The shooting may be an isolated incident, but the fact that cops can get away with this shit scot free is a systemic issue.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52961454]Can you really not understand why a person wouldn't want to die?[/quote] Uh yeah I can, and guess what, civilians don't want to die either. Does that mean they should be able to shoot at cops they perceive as nervous or twitchy because they incorrectly deem them a threat to their safety? Police should be held to higher standards than civilians, the reverse seems to be true here. [Quote]And it's not impossible to ~quickdraw~ on somebody, and I'm not going to explain why its better to be safe than sorry.[/QUOTE] Better safe than sorry? Are you shitting me? Are you implying that shooting an innocent civilian to death is the "safe" part? You're completely missing the point of my question. [I]Why the fuck[/I] is it preferable that a police officer shoots and kills someone they've sworn to protect than take the careful route and wait until they see an actual threat? What is it about police officers' lives that makes them worth so much more than civilians' lives?

What the fuck, why didn't they just go cuff him when he was on the ground, with crossed legs, and hands above his head? Looks to me like a literal game of execution Simon Says.

[QUOTE=elowin;52961483]The shooting may be an isolated incident, but the fact that cops can get away with this shit scot free is a systemic issue.[/QUOTE] It is a systematic issue. But writing off an entire country because a handful of people get away with it? Come on. [QUOTE=_Axel;52961519]Uh yeah I can, and guess what, civilians don't want to die either. Does that mean they should be able to shoot at cops they perceive as nervous or twitchy because they incorrectly deem them a threat to their safety? Police should be held to higher standards than civilians, the reverse seems to be true here.[/quote] They are, generally, held to a higher standard. Sometimes cops do get away with murder, but they usually don't. The reason you're seeing an article about this is because of how uncommon this issue is. The cop that shot an unarmed fleeing black male got very recently sentenced to prison, and thats not really even on the front page of any news site. Cops like the ones in the video, which I'm assuming you still haven't watched, are not a common sight. Most are far more understanding and rational than these two were. [QUOTE=_Axel;52961519] Better safe than sorry? Are you shitting me? Are you implying that shooting an innocent civilian to death is the "safe" part? You're completely missing the point of my question. [I]Why the fuck[/I] is it preferable that a police officer shoots and kills someone they've sworn to protect than take the careful route and wait until they see an actual threat? What is it about police officers' lives that makes them worth so much more than civilians' lives?[/QUOTE] I guess I do have to explain why its better safe than sorry lol Why should cops wait to see an actual weapon before they fire? Because by the time they see an actual weapon, their chances of getting hurt or killed went from 0% to 1-99%. Reaching for the waistband is completely synonymous with drawing a firearm. If you tell a guy to keep his hands in the air and he reaches for his waistband, he's probably reaching for a gun. The amount of times that thats not the case are very few and far between. The amount of time it takes to draw a firearm from your waistband is insanely small. It's very easy to get it up and pointed at someone before they can return fire. It's better to act on that before they're drawing. Police are trained better than a civilian populace, but they're still human. You're expecting them to have some super human ability that lets them react faster just because they have a badge and a uniform. Why should a cop have to wait until theres a gun pointed at them for them to respond accordingly? Why should they have to be potentially killed or maimed before they're allowed to react? Is a cops life worth less to you because they're aware of the risks of their profession?

[QUOTE=Sherow_Xx;52961525]What the fuck, why didn't they just go cuff him when he was on the ground, with crossed legs, and hands above his head? Looks to me like a literal game of execution Simon Says.[/QUOTE] Because you're an idiot and don't understand the situation. Some serious hate boner going on right now. They didnt move in because there were reports of a third person in the room, so they cleared the suspects so they could to move up and secure the room. As far as I'm concerned this is justified, but the cop didn't make the situation any better that's for sure, probably shoulda been slapped with manslaughter because as justified as it looked, he did make the wrong call. As much as everyone thinks the guy was shit scared, that doesnt matter. It takes all of a second to pull a gun on someone, a split second is all they have to decide if he was going for a gun or not. Can anyone say this isn't standard police operating procedure? [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Mezzokoko))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Jake Nukem;52961701]Because you're an idiot and don't understand the situation. Some serious hate boner going on right now. They didnt move in because there were reports of a third person in the room, so they cleared the suspects so they could to move up and secure the room. As far as I'm concerned this is justified, but the cop didn't make the situation any better that's for sure, probably shoulda been slapped with manslaughter because as justified as it looked, he did make the wrong call. As much as everyone thinks the guy was shit scared, that doesnt matter. It takes all of a second to pull a gun on someone, a split second is all they have to decide if he was going for a gun or not. Can anyone say this isn't standard police operating procedure?[/QUOTE] If they believed it was impossible to move up safely in order to secure him, why not have him secure himself? Toss him a pair of handcuffs or a ziptie and tell him to secure himself, and problem solved. We didn't need to spend five minutes having him crawl towards the cops at an agonizing two inches an hour resulting in him getting his brains splattered on the floor. I'm not familiar with how easy it is to use handcuffs to secure yourself, but zipties I know for a fact will work for restraining yourself, and I don't see why handcuffs also couldn't have been used. Once he's strapped in, throw him into a squad car sending a team member to do so, and breach once he's back.

[QUOTE=JerryAnderson;52961785]If they believed it was impossible to move up safely in order to secure him, why not have him secure himself? Toss him a pair of handcuffs or a ziptie and tell him to secure himself, and problem solved. We didn't need to spend five minutes having him crawl towards the cops at an agonizing two inches an hour resulting in him getting his brains splattered on the floor. I'm not familiar with how easy it is to use handcuffs to secure yourself, but zipties I know for a fact will work for restraining yourself, and I don't see why handcuffs also couldn't have been used. Once he's strapped in, throw him into a squad car sending a team member to do so, and breach once he's back.[/QUOTE] Man what were they thinking when they were writing up procedures to deal with situations? Let's just do what you suggest, while we're at it let's just aim for the legs so they're non lethal shots while we're at it. Point is it would have been fine... If only he didnt reach back, He'd still be very much alive.

[QUOTE=Jake Nukem;52961701]Because you're an idiot and don't understand the situation. Some serious hate boner going on right now. They didnt move in because there were reports of a third person in the room, so they cleared the suspects so they could to move up and secure the room. As far as I'm concerned this is justified, but the cop didn't make the situation any better that's for sure, probably shoulda been slapped with manslaughter because as justified as it looked, he did make the wrong call. As much as everyone thinks the guy was shit scared, that doesnt matter. It takes all of a second to pull a gun on someone, a split second is all they have to decide if he was going for a gun or not. Can anyone say this isn't standard police operating procedure?[/QUOTE] It's not standard. They were being far far far far far too cautious. "Get on the ground. Now cross your legs, no cross them the other way, hands on your head, lace your fingers, not get on your knees and put your hands in the air, crawl towards me, no not like that, crawl towards me..." ect. is just fucking dumb. If they weren't acting like complete idiots, they would have had them individually walk backwards with their hands in the air, cuff them individually, then inspect the room for a third person. This would have let them cover the individuals as well as the door incase there was a third person in the room. But they didn't do that; they made a very complicated situation, gave out complicated directions, refused questions and concerns, and expected 2 potentially intoxicated individuals to follow the directions flawlessly. [editline]9th December 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Jake Nukem;52961788]Man what were they thinking when they were writing up procedures to deal with situations? Let's just do what you suggest, while we're at it let's just aim for the legs so they're non lethal shots while we're at it. Point is it would have been fine... If only he didnt reach back, He'd still be very much alive.[/QUOTE] If only his pants weren't falling down and he was actually allowed to talk, he wouldn't have been killed. Had the cops in this situation not built some simon says scenario where if you miss a step you get shot, he would still be alive. The directions and expectations were far too convoluted for death to be the result of failing to comply. It's fucking stupid.

Are you a cop? Have you been trained in dealing with dangerous situations? Or you just talking out of your ass as a professional armchair warrior.

[QUOTE=Jake Nukem;52961701]Because you're an idiot and don't understand the situation. Some serious hate boner going on right now. They didnt move in because there were reports of a third person in the room, so they cleared the suspects so they could to move up and secure the room.[/QUOTE] This argument is pretty bad tbh, because they started moving after shooting him (without even being sure that he was dead, as likely as it is). Don't see the reason why they couldn't move before with him lying down.

This will be a historical video that everyone in a police academy has to watch, right?

[QUOTE=Jake Nukem;52961867]Are you a cop? Have you been trained in dealing with dangerous situations? Or you just talking out of your ass as a professional armchair warrior.[/QUOTE] Alright sheriff. Please reference the procedure that the officers were using, so that you can defend to me why this man was rightfully put position where he should be justifiably killed.

Real life is jailbreak with the admin's little brother being the cop. I can't believe the only way to raid a hotel room is to play Simon Says with 2 of the suspects for 30 minutes while waiting for the possible third guy to fuck off through the fire escape/prepare his weapons. Honestly they were lucky the people who walked out were from the room they were headed to. I could see myself leaving my hotel room drunk to get a snack just to end up playing a deadly game of twister. Jesus christ, I could only imagine if they didn't speak english well.

You can dance around what the law and books say all day but that doesn't make every thing about this any less disgusting. I'm never going to the US again after knowing I can walk out of my hotel room into a power tripping asshole looking for a reason to shoot me in the face. Honestly, though, every day something pops up in the news that proves more and more that the US has degraded into a developing nation.

[QUOTE=Jake Nukem;52961867]Are you a cop? Have you been trained in dealing with dangerous situations? Or you just talking out of your ass as a professional armchair warrior.[/QUOTE] No, not a cop but I've been shot at more than once if that makes any difference. I was calmer then than these 2 were facing an unarmed couple splayed out on the floor.

The tone of voice that is used feels like the person barking orders is taking pleasure in his position

[QUOTE=Jake Nukem;52961788]Man what were they thinking when they were writing up procedures to deal with situations? Let's just do what you suggest, while we're at it let's just aim for the legs so they're non lethal shots while we're at it. Point is it would have been fine... If only he didnt reach back, He'd still be very much alive.[/QUOTE] Dude I've seen Twitch SWAT recordings that were called in as hostage situations or armed and dangerous with less aggressive, and more careful cops than this. The way they were dealing with them you'd think they were dealing with an active shooter on a rampage when it was allegedly only called in as a guy holding a rifle out the window, then he comes out unarmed. Even if they thought there were 3 people in the room and someone waiting to shoot through the door, they could have just made them walk backwards down the hallway one at a time with their hands behind their heads which is plenty of time for them to react if they make a move, then they cuff them one at a time. Why in the flying [I]fuck[/I] is it okay for a police officer to make someone follow a demeaning simon says of orders, making them get down on the floor with their hands interlinked, then making them get back up on their knees ([B]BUT DONT MOVE YOUR FUCKING HANDS FROM YOUR HEAD[/B]), then crawl on their knees across the floor with their legs crossed? I just tried it now and nearly fell flat on my face on the first step, I can't imagine how much worse I'd handle it if I was drunk and being yelled at and told I was going to fucking die if I make a single wrong move "The cop did what he thought he should do", okay, fine. but what made the cop think he had to make it that unnecessarily obfuscated to the point where it takes them a solid [I]three[/I] minutes just to get one suspect [B]five feet[/B] across the floor. [QUOTE]If he didn't reach back, he'd still be very much alive.[/QUOTE] If the cop didn't force his dominance on a drunk man having a mental breakdown into a demeaning set of deliberately obtuse orders, he'd still be very much alive. (and if they weren't obtuse in his mind, he is [B][I]definitely[/I][/B] not properly trained on how to handle the situation.) He should be charged with negligence and manslaughter. [editline].[/editline] [QUOTE=Thom12255;52959386]We live in a country where cops are allowed to panic and murder someone but civilians have to remain perfectly calm with a man pointing a gun into their face.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Jake Nukem;52961788]Man what were they thinking when they were writing up procedures to deal with situations? Let's just do what you suggest, while we're at it let's just aim for the legs so they're non lethal shots while we're at it. Point is it would have been fine... If only he didnt reach back, He'd still be very much alive.[/QUOTE] The point is. The man died because he panicked and he did reach his back because he panicked. Before you say it's his own fault that he panicked. There is a HUGE difference between [b]"Sir, I do want you to stay calm and put your hands behind your back and move slowly towards me"[/b] and [B]"Shut up, if you move we do consider this a threat and we will kill you"[/B] it's about avoiding the suspect to panic and de-escalation. This is the P O L I C E for fucks sake not a zombie scenario military cleanup squadron.

[QUOTE=RzDat;52959420]That was fucking brutal jesus. I hope this scenerio will haunt this lunatic forever and will remind him that he killed an innocent man.[/QUOTE] What if he's a psychopath and doesn't feel any remorse for what he did?

If American law won't do what's right, I hope at least the people will. This officer does not deserve to be accepted into society after what he's done.

Fuck. It's been 12 hours since I've watched the video and it still hasn't gotten out of my head. It's 4 AM and I can't fall asleep, maybe in part because of this video. I've been on the internet a long time. I have gone out of my way to witness decapitations from South America and the Middle East, people getting shot and blown to bits in wars. I have seen people burn to death, get crushed, and disemboweled. For those videos I don't think I ever batted an eye. I guess you could say that exposure to constant death and seeing the worst humanity has to offer each-other has desensitized me. But this video fucking disgusted me. Disgusted me. To my core. There was something exceptionally fucked up about this entire situation and the way it played out. For example when I see footage of ISIS decapitating and executing harmless prisoners, as fucked up as it is I can bear with it because in part I understand it. To the ISIS executioners, they have a purpose, a reason for killing. It is a fucked up human to human interaction, but still a human to human interaction nonetheless. But in this video there was none of that. There was no humanity. It was a cold-blooded, calculated, predatory, psychopathic, opportunistic, barbaric, sadistic, merciless, and unforgiving murder. Just plain murder in the sickest and worst sense of the word. Murder for the sake or murder. The entire encounter was like something out of SAW, with the officer barking orders seemingly determined to create a situation where they would be allowed to shoot another person for no damned good reason at all. From the bottom of my heart, fuck the person giving the orders with a giant cactus, and fuck the trigger-puller for not stepping in and realizing that things were getting out of hand. It makes me sick that those psychopaths are just getting away with it. No one should have to die like this.

[QUOTE=Jake Nukem;52961701]Because you're an idiot and don't understand the situation. Some serious hate boner going on right now. They didnt move in because there were reports of a third person in the room, so they cleared the suspects so they could to move up and secure the room. As far as I'm concerned this is justified, but the cop didn't make the situation any better that's for sure, probably shoulda been slapped with manslaughter because as justified as it looked, he did make the wrong call. As much as everyone thinks the guy was shit scared, that doesnt matter. It takes all of a second to pull a gun on someone, a split second is all they have to decide if he was going for a gun or not. Can anyone say this isn't standard police operating procedure? [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Mezzokoko))[/highlight][/QUOTE] Walk over and cuff suspect on the floor OR Have the suspect hold their hands up and walk towards them, backwards if needed, cuff them that way OR Toss handcuffs over and have the suspect put them on, frisk afterwards OR Anything that isn't a list of completely inane nonsensical orders. Additionally, they could have had a taser out, and/or Mace if needed, allowing them to non-lethally take the suspect out without the need of lethal force. There are many ways they easily could have not fucked this up and they managed to do exactly that. Anyone should be able to easily understand that their orders were massively out of bounds and unreasonable. Bad communication in [B]any scenario[/B], ranging from military duty to crane operation, even just parking your car in a really dangerous spot, can and will cause accidents and possibly even death. This is an undeniable fact. If you communicate very poorly amped up on adrenaline and trying to rush things, you're going to cause a very bad accident. The more orders you give that are confusing the more of a panic you're going to create, and the harder the situation will be. These cops didn't have their cool at all and their communication is what got this man killed, not him 'not listening well enough'. They were way too heated way too fast and bad communication is why the man died. If he 'went for his belt' while doing one of the four things above and got tasered, or shot, that would have been different. But it happened strictly because of their communication, not because of his inability to follow that communication. Holding him up to the standard that he should be able to follow even really confusing orders in a tough situation is holding him to a far greater standard than the trained professionals are being held to. You're expecting far more from him than the cops, and that's simply an unrealistic black and white view of it. But no, maybe you should just keep having a tantrum and calling people idiots. I'm sure that'll make you look great. [QUOTE=Jake Nukem;52961867]Are you a cop? Have you been trained in dealing with dangerous situations? Or you just talking out of your ass as a professional armchair warrior.[/QUOTE] "Are you a cop?" - Says man who isn't a cop tbh if you are a cop though then Jesus, that's scary. [QUOTE=Jake Nukem;52961788]Man what were they thinking when they were writing up procedures to deal with situations? Let's just do what you suggest, while we're at it let's just aim for the legs so they're non lethal shots while we're at it. Point is it would have been fine... If only he didnt reach back, He'd still be very much alive.[/QUOTE] [t]https://i.imgur.com/XOb2Z0s.png[/t] "If only he didnt reach back, He'd still be very much alive" - Jake Nukem 2017 Glad that you're really rooting for the underdog here.

You put a man under incredible pressure, that man is going to do mistakes unless he's fucking amazing. Ever had to perform in front of people? No matter how easy the recital is youre probably going to do mistakes when youre actually performing. Now imagine youre trying to perform in front of Death himself, and he tells you you're dead if you mess up your performance. Good luck trying to not let your legs give out under you, let alone perform well. Dunno if the cop wanted to kill the guy, but his reckless power tripping certainly caused a man to die. [editline]10th December 2017[/editline] Not only did he cause a death of a guy, giving these commands actually placed the officers in much more danger than just having him not move and cuffing him while held at gunpoint.

[QUOTE=Jake Nukem;52961701]Can anyone say this isn't standard police operating procedure?[/QUOTE] Uh, yeah? The commands he gave were literally contradictory. 'Lie down on the ground', 'interlace your fingers on your head', 'keep your hands in the air', and 'crawl towards me' are completely incompatible with each other. Yes, he might have survived if he didn't reach backwards while he was crawling, but at that point the cops had already made damn sure he was panicked and 100% confused about which Simon says commands had been overruled by the 'crawl towards me' command, and which ones hadn't. After all, he had already broken a previous command when he lowered his hands [I]on the cop's command[/I] to begin crawling. And that's not to mention that the police needs to be able to clear a place relatively fast, and that would be absolutely impossible if this was standard procedure in situations where there might be more suspects further in a building.

[QUOTE=TheHydra;52960940]here's what i don't understand: why are untrained citizens held to higher standards of behavior than police officers? why is an average citizen expected to comply perfectly, with no mistakes, to confusing orders after an unexpected encounter with a group of people in body armor pointing 6 guns at him and saying they'll kill him if he does anything wrong? every time something like this happens there's always people criticizing the behavior of the victim for making a mistake anyone could make, oftentimes insulting them for doing so. the guy was pulling up his pants because they were falling down. he was crying and trying not to get shot after being threatened repeatedly. he likely has no training on how to deal with a high-pressure life-or-death situation like this. the police officers do. so why is it that a guy like this gets criticized for making a simple mistake and getting his life taken away, and the officers are treated like poor victims of fate and get off basically scot-free? i don't understand it. i get it's a stressful job, i get that the officers don't want to be attacked either, but that's a risk they knowingly subject themselves to, and it's a risk they're trained to deal with. a random guy heading back to his hotel room isn't.[/QUOTE] The "it's a stressful job give them a break" excuse is the worst shit I've ever heard, and it comes up every time there's some inexcusable police murder. There are plenty of people with stressful jobs. Be a deep-sea dive welder, where the fatality rate is hundreds of times higher than it is for police. Guess what? Nobody says "yeah they fucked up this weld and an oil rig had a leak that led to an explosion that killed 10, but it's stressful, give them a break." Be a miner or an industrial worker, nobody will ever even dare to say "yeah sure he tore this guy's arm off due to negligence and stupidity, but he was stressed out, it's a hard job, we should understand that." You know what happens to people who make those kinds of fuckups in any other industry? They get fired and potentially sued. Kill someone as a truck driver? You're no longer a truck driver. Why are police literally the only group who gets the benefit of the doubt when it comes to actually killing people? Any other job and a workplace death by your hand means you're done, end of. Cops? Nah, execute a few dudes, do your job poorly and kill a few innocents, no biggie, we understand, it's a hard job, just blow off some steam by gunning down a crying man crawling on the floor.