[QUOTE=Craigewan;52277382]And yet neither are they hispanic.[/QUOTE]
I can tell you're british.
"Hispanic" is veeeeeery broad.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52278270]I can tell you're british.
"Hispanic" is veeeeeery broad.[/QUOTE]
If he's referring to two black girls he's still probably correct in his sentiment.
Although to prove either way we'd need a background check on the both of them.
At face value though, not Hispanic.
cultural appropriation is the dumbest shit in the world lmao
if it wasn't for cultural appropriation we wouldn't live in the world we do today. The US is literally fonded on cultural appropriation.
the US is basically cultural appropriation: The country
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;52278283]If he's referring to two black girls he's still probably correct in his sentiment.
Although to prove either way we'd need a background check on the both of them.
At face value though, not Hispanic.[/QUOTE]
What do you mean face value?
When we talk "hispanic" on one hand you'll have very pale white people and on the other there's some much "blacker"-looking people who look pretty much like the people photoed. Usually that type will be descended from africans mixed with amerindians.
[thumb]http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/sites/default/files/custom/Meena/THR_Will_Smith_9872_01_0296_embed.jpg[/thumb]
like this guy? He counts as a Hispanic mulatto.
USA: The melting pot where we like to keep ingredients from mixing.
"Hispanic" just means someone with ancestry from a Spanish-speaking country. "Latino" means someone from a Latin American country.
This extends to people who are much lighter in skin color AND much darker, also sometimes known as Afro-Latinos.
That's not to say that the people in the OP are valid in their criticisms but Hispanic/Latino people are SUPER diverse in appearance so it's hard to just say "at face value" when trying to discern whether someone is hispanic/latino or not.
[QUOTE=thelurker1234;52278300]What do you mean face value?
When we talk "hispanic" on one hand you'll have very pale white people and on the other there's some much "blacker"-looking people who look pretty much like the people photoed. Usually that type will be descended from africans mixed with amerindians.
[/QUOTE]
True, fair point.
QUICK, CLOSE STARBUCKS.
[QUOTE=Pascall;52278148]God I can't stand Mole lol but Posole is great.[/QUOTE]
Mole tastes really good when you eat it with rice and use tortillas (corn ones) to wrap it up.
You can also make Enmoladas using panela cheese and a bit of creativity.
well, that's usually how people here in the north eat it.
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52276553]My bad, I misread. I thought they went to Mexico, got inspired, came back, and then started learning.[/QUOTE]
I mean burritos aren't exactly a complicated concept
[editline]26th May 2017[/editline]
I wish I'd known about this place before it shut down. Maybe they'll reopen across the river. :v:
Honestly I can kinda see the point of complaining about this. If they weren't given any of the techniques that's used and had to learn from looking into the kitchens without permission, that's not really the way to go about it. In the same vein of intellectual property laws, you can own ideas and concepts in certain ways, and the techniques for making the tortilla or whatever is unique to those chefs, but they just copied it even after asking nicely and (not being denied exactly?) not being given it. This is to me different than how people in this thread talk about cultures sharing. That's sharing willingly, but this technique wasn't shared, it was intentionally withheld.
However in the grand scheme of things, the harm caused is probably negligible, and there's also the whole angle of different views on intellectual property.
[editline]27th May 2017[/editline]
I don't think the thing they're getting angry at is that someone is making burritos, but that they went to a country only just try and steal part of their recipe. Which I think myself is disrespectful, even if the harm probably isn't there.
I don't really see an indication that they don't want them to partake in a culture other than their own, even though it seems like it's what a lot of people in this thread are getting angry about.
[editline]27th May 2017[/editline]
I expected people to rate this dumb just because it's not what everyone is saying, but I would at least hope someone would argue it.
-snip- meant to merge
[QUOTE=SGTNAPALM;52276192]I kinda get what they're getting at... Serruptitiously sneaking around and trying to get the recipes (intellectual property) of people who do not wish to disclose them, who are currently selling those foods? Yeah, that's pretty fucked up regardless of race.
[editline]26th May 2017[/editline]
This is the most Portland story I ever read, though. It's like a sketch out of Portlandia.[/QUOTE]
If your recipe is so simple that it can be deciphered by two kids from Portland peeking in your windows while on vacation, I don't really think it matters that they copied it. Not to mention, making it a race thing is just weird. As if they wouldn't have gotten away with it if they had "stolen" a recipe from old white lady baking delicious pies or whatever old white ladies cook.
[QUOTE=Tinter;52278876]Honestly I can kinda see the point of complaining about this. If they weren't given any of the techniques that's used and had to learn from looking into the kitchens without permission, that's not really the way to go about it. In the same vein of intellectual property laws, you can own ideas and concepts in certain ways, and the techniques for making the tortilla or whatever is unique to those chefs, but they just copied it even after asking nicely and (not being denied exactly?) not being given it. This is to me different than how people in this thread talk about cultures sharing. That's sharing willingly, but this technique wasn't shared, it was intentionally withheld.
However in the grand scheme of things, the harm caused is probably negligible, and there's also the whole angle of different views on intellectual property.
[editline]27th May 2017[/editline]
I don't think the thing they're getting angry at is that someone is making burritos, but that they went to a country only just try and steal part of their recipe. Which I think myself is disrespectful, even if the harm probably isn't there.
I don't really see an indication that they don't want them to partake in a culture other than their own, even though it seems like it's what a lot of people in this thread are getting angry about.
[editline]27th May 2017[/editline]
I expected people to rate this dumb just because it's not what everyone is saying, but I would at least hope someone would argue it.[/QUOTE]
No, it's as idiotic as saying a smith can't forge katanas because they aren't Japanese or only certain people can cook and prepare certain food if they are a part of the culture it originated from. It's not like they took some sacred aspect of a culture and decided to trivialize it to make a profit. It's just more of the political correctness bullshit because the two girls are white.
[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52277647]Thats like saying that the sandwich isn't an English invention because the English didn't invent cheese and ham. You're looking at it too statically.
Corn flour tortillas were an exclusively Mayan/Mexican invention, you can't really discredit that just because someone figured out how to make bread differently elsewhere. And, depending which history you believe, [I]the Burrito was made by a Mexican-American[/I] and marketed as such.[/QUOTE]
Oh I get it, so unless you're specifically Mexican-American, and NOTHING ELSE, you're a cultural appropriating shitlord if you eat or make a burrito. Man, what a lucky minority.
I literally don't cook "white people food" and I'm white. I actually don't know how to cook "White people" food.
Everything I know how to cook is ethnic. Am I the devil?
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;52279737]I literally don't cook "white people food" and I'm white. I actually don't know how to cook "White people" food.
Everything I know how to cook is ethnic. Am I the devil?[/QUOTE]
Might as well be cracking the whip yourself, buddy.
[QUOTE=Tinter;52278876]Honestly I can kinda see the point of complaining about this. If they weren't given any of the techniques that's used and had to learn from looking into the kitchens without permission, that's not really the way to go about it. In the same vein of intellectual property laws, you can own ideas and concepts in certain ways, and the techniques for making the tortilla or whatever is unique to those chefs, but they just copied it even after asking nicely and (not being denied exactly?) not being given it. This is to me different than how people in this thread talk about cultures sharing. That's sharing willingly, but this technique wasn't shared, it was intentionally withheld.
However in the grand scheme of things, the harm caused is probably negligible, and there's also the whole angle of different views on intellectual property.
[editline]27th May 2017[/editline]
I don't think the thing they're getting angry at is that someone is making burritos, but that they went to a country only just try and steal part of their recipe. Which I think myself is disrespectful, even if the harm probably isn't there.
I don't really see an indication that they don't want them to partake in a culture other than their own, even though it seems like it's what a lot of people in this thread are getting angry about.
[editline]27th May 2017[/editline]
I expected people to rate this dumb just because it's not what everyone is saying, but I would at least hope someone would argue it.[/QUOTE]
My argument is that there's no way to tell how closely they stuck to the recipe they vaguely learned/watched.
The interview said they had to go through trial and error to figure it out, it doesn't sound too far fetched to me if they did them differently in the end.
And not only that but if they peeked into many windows but still came to the same recipe, isn't it possible they just learned how to make generic tortillas? And there's no mention of exactly how much they were told and how much of what they were told they used.
Sure, the way they went about things is distasteful but honestly what harm was done racially?
People are blowing this way out of proportion with the "stolen culture/intellectual property!" stuff imo.
If you find how they went about things disrespectful, then okay I totally get that, but it feels like race and culture is just being shoehorned in because they're white.
well shit
we had tacos yesterday i guess im a racist now
Another day in Portland, frankly.
[QUOTE=-Ben_Wolfe-;52279492]No, it's as idiotic as saying a smith can't forge katanas because they aren't Japanese or only certain people can cook and prepare certain food if they are a part of the culture it originated from. It's not like they took some sacred aspect of a culture and decided to trivialize it to make a profit. It's just more of the political correctness bullshit because the two girls are white.[/QUOTE]
That's not what's being said, and I don't think it's even what the article is trying to say. It specifically mentions there's nothing wrong with cultures sharing, but peeking into the kitchens to copy how they prepare food isn't sharing.
[editline]27th May 2017[/editline]
[QUOTE=Bridger;52280185]My argument is that there's no way to tell how closely they stuck to the recipe they vaguely learned/watched.
The interview said they had to go through trial and error to figure it out, it doesn't sound too far fetched to me if they did them differently in the end.
And not only that but if they peeked into many windows but still came to the same recipe, isn't it possible they just learned how to make generic tortillas? And there's no mention of exactly how much they were told and how much of what they were told they used.
Sure, the way they went about things is distasteful but honestly what harm was done racially?
People are blowing this way out of proportion with the "stolen culture/intellectual property!" stuff imo.
If you find how they went about things disrespectful, then okay I totally get that, but it feels like race and culture is just being shoehorned in because they're white.[/QUOTE]
I will agree it's probably blown way out of proportion, but I also think people are misrepresenting the argument, as I don't think it's about making sure nobody partakes in a foreign culture.
As I mentioned in my previous post (Or at least tried to, maybe it's a bit too rambling.), the harm caused is probably negligible, and going as far as to shut down the restaurant doesn't help much. It would be better if they donated to some relevant charity or something.
[QUOTE=DiBBs27;52277691]
Extrapolate rather than making unexplained claims.[/QUOTE]
The horseshoe theory makes no distinction between authoritarian and libertarian variants of left- and right-wing ideologies, it makes no distinction between radicalism and extremism, it only exists to make centrists feel like they have the "right" ideology. It gives the impression that the further you go from the centre, the more "wrong" you are, to put it simply. Which is ironic considering some centrists gives leftists a lot of shit for being intolerant of other ideologies.
Anarchists and fascists have absolutely nothing in common. They are literally the exact opposite of eachother. Fascists want to unite their own people under a totalitarian state, anarchists want to let all people govern themselves and be free from hierarchies. Authoritarianism is a trait that is mostly inherent to the far-right these days. And that's just about the only thing that can be used to compare the two sides of the spectrum. But there are far more libertarian leftists than there are authoritarian ones.
You also seem to misunderstand what the word "progressive" means. It's not a catch-all term for leftism, it just means that you support social reform.
The phrase "anti-fascists are the fascists of today" is a lot of BS too. There is nothing fascist about defending your own communities from fascism. The goal of anti-fascism is simply to prevent fascism from taking power by any means necessary. And that "means" is where you should direct your criticism, not at the concept itself.
The only time the horseshoe theory applies is when you're talking about the third position, which is a really wierd set of extremist ideologies that draw from both the far-left and far-right. It was historically associated with nazism, but now it is mostly associated with strasserism, national bolshevism and national-anarchism.
[QUOTE=Pascall;52278312]"Hispanic" just means someone with ancestry from a Spanish-speaking country. "Latino" means someone from a Latin American country.
This extends to people who are much lighter in skin color AND much darker, also sometimes known as Afro-Latinos.
That's not to say that the people in the OP are valid in their criticisms but Hispanic/Latino people are SUPER diverse in appearance so it's hard to just say "at face value" when trying to discern whether someone is hispanic/latino or not.[/QUOTE]
How the hell do you Western people try and differentiate Hispanic from Latino and similar stuff like that and not get insane.
Everything is so fucking unnecessary.
[QUOTE=UnknownDude;52280422]The horseshoe theory makes no distinction between authoritarian and libertarian variants of left- and right-wing ideologies, it makes no distinction between radicalism and extremism, it only exists to make centrists feel like they have the "right" ideology. It gives the impression that the further you go from the centre, the more "wrong" you are, to put it simply. Which is ironic considering some centrists gives leftists a lot of shit for being intolerant of other ideologies.
Anarchists and fascists have absolutely nothing in common. They are literally the exact opposite of eachother. Fascists want to unite their own people under a totalitarian state, anarchists want to let all people govern themselves and be free from hierarchies. Authoritarianism is a trait that is mostly inherent to the far-right these days. And that's just about the only thing that can be used to compare the two sides of the spectrum. But there are far more libertarian leftists than there are authoritarian ones.
You also seem to misunderstand what the word "progressive" means. It's not a catch-all term for leftism, it just means that you support social reform.
The phrase "anti-fascists are the fascists of today" is a lot of BS too. There is nothing fascist about defending your own communities from fascism. The goal of anti-fascism is simply to prevent fascism from taking power by any means necessary. And that "means" is where you should direct your criticism, not at the concept itself.
The only time the horseshoe theory applies is when you're talking about the third position, which is a really wierd set of extremist ideologies that draw from both the far-left and far-right. It was historically associated with nazism, but now it is mostly associated with strasserism, national bolshevism and national-anarchism.[/QUOTE]
I'm fairly sure the horseshoe theory points out the nigh-identical methods that opposing extremist ideologies employ, rather than stating that the ideologies themselves are identical.
Besides, you say that there is nothing fascist about defending your own communities from fascism. But replace 'fascism' with any other perceived or real enemy, and you get the basic MO of fascism, e.g. "We must defend our communities from [enemy] by any means!". And although it is historically proven that fascism poses a great threat to a society, going also by historical precedent, the same can be said of the classic "invading foreigners", too.
Also, since a lot of antifa folk swing right over to the communist spectrum, they really are no better. Authoritative, harmful ideologies going at it for the umpteenth time won't convince me to stop being a centrist anytime soon.
My favorite food to cook and eat is Chicken Tikka Masala, Zonesylvania am i racist? Do you hate me?
What the fuck is it about Portland that seems to turn its inhabitants into such rampant dickholes?
[QUOTE=DeVotchKa;52280615]My favorite food to cook and eat is Chicken Tikka Masala, Zonesylvania am i racist? Do you hate me?[/QUOTE]
I'm Indian...I don't [I]hate[/I] you, per se, but I am judging you for your choice so hard right now. [URL="http://roadsandkingdoms.com/2014/who-owns-chicken-tikka-masala/"]You should know that it's likely to be an invention by a Glaswegian.[/URL]
Everyone knows Chicken Kadai is the superior Indian chicken dish.
If you're going to eat Indian food, do it right, dammit.
[QUOTE=Tinter;52278876]Honestly I can kinda see the point of complaining about this. If they weren't given any of the techniques that's used and had to learn from looking into the kitchens without permission, that's not really the way to go about it. [/quote]
Then what exactly is?
[QUOTE=Tinter;52278876]In the same vein of intellectual property laws, you can own ideas and concepts in certain ways, and the techniques for making the tortilla or whatever is unique to those chefs, but they just copied it even after asking nicely and (not being denied exactly?) not being given it.[/quote]
And why exactly is this bad? No one owns how to make tortillas.
[QUOTE=Tinter;52278876]This is to me different than how people in this thread talk about cultures sharing. That's sharing willingly, but this technique wasn't shared, it was intentionally withheld.[/QUOTE]
Then you have a lot to learn about cultures and cultural exchange. "Cultural Appropriation" is a neutral anthropological term that describes cultural exchange. It's not good, it's not bad. Cultures take and give, willingly or unwillingly simply because they are extremely flexible and elastic. There are countless examples in history that show this in action - from various pottery types, to art styles, languages, clothing, any cultural material - including food. Nothing about cultural exchange says it has to be willingly or wittingly.
[QUOTE=Tinter;52278876]I don't think the thing they're getting angry at is that someone is making burritos, but that they went to a country only just try and steal part of their recipe.[/Quote]
Nothing in the article even hints that they went to Mexico to steal that poor tortilla recipe from the poor hardworking Mexican people. So nice try.
[QUOTE=Tinter;52278876]I don't really see an indication that they don't want them to partake in a culture other than their own[/QUOTE]
It's literally in the OP actually
[quote]"the people who rightly own these traditions and cultures that exist are already treated poorly" an article in the Portland Mercury reads. “These appropriating businesses [B]are erasing and exploiting their already marginalized identities for the purpose of profit and praise[/B].”[/quote]
[QUOTE=Tinter;52280325]That's not what's being said, and I don't think it's even what the article is trying to say. It specifically mentions there's nothing wrong with cultures sharing, but peeking into the kitchens to copy how they prepare food isn't sharing.[/QUOTE]
Refer to what I said above about Cultural Exchange. Also known as "Cultural Borrowing" or "Cultural Diffusion". Cultural Diffusion, as it was defined to me, is the act of one Culture borrowing something from another. And borrowing was defined as one culture adopting something from another - again, the willingness of one culture vs another does not come into play.
[QUOTE=Tinter;52280325]I will agree it's probably blown way out of proportion, but I also think people are misrepresenting the argument, as I don't think it's about making sure nobody partakes in a foreign culture.[/QUOTE]
It pretty much is. Every one of these stories I see a misguided attempt to protect minority groups, even though it doesn't really protect them at all, and also stifles a natural process for cultures. In an effort to "protect" cultures, all they're doing is stifling cultural changes and shifts.
[QUOTE=Tinter;52280325]It would be better if they donated to some relevant charity or something.[/QUOTE]
Why exactly would they need to donate to a charity for making fucking burritos? Actually, I'm seeing this sentiment pop up more and more recently. "Oh X went against Y belief, they better donate to charity to make up for it and atone for their sins". It's like a modern day indulgences program.
What by that logic all the Muslims who make pizzas here are racist cause pizza is Italian? Well I love me some racist pizza anyways and I'm going to buy it anyways.
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