YouTube Hiring For Some Positions Excluded White and Asian Males, Lawsuit says - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Thom12255;53172031]As a white male it hurts to think that I could be qualified for something but passed up because of what I look like. BUT, I do understand why this is, minorities for decades were passed up because of what they looked like and thus don't make up the proporition of the work force in some industiries that they really should be entitled to. It sucks that this happens but it sucks that it happened to them and it has to be corrected somehow.[/QUOTE] That isn't gonna fix anything at all. It's just gonna make everything worse.

[QUOTE=WitheredGryphon;53172036]You’d be thoroughly surprised at how prominent racial hiring quotas are. Or quotas in general. There always has to be some arbitrary balance that hiring managers have to meet. Too many Males and not enough Females Too many Whites and not enough Asians Too many ESTJs and not enough INFPs There’s so many bullshit quotas that exist that I’m surprised a lawsuit for equal opportunity employment hasn’t appeared sooner[/QUOTE] In terms of myers briggs stuff, intuitives are uncommon af, and my type gets a whole lot of misunderstandings for being the 1% (INFJ). But if I'm not mistaken, companies hire sensors more on average because they tend to be more in the here and now than intuitives are, as an intuitive, I usually get seen as strange and different and things don't necessarily work out the way I'd hope because of that. It's a shame because personality type is only one part of the whole picture, because work ethic and other factors are something that some may learn over time through experience (one would hope at least).

i think companies should only hire if they're more racially/sexually diverse if they're picking from an equally competent pool of people, otherwise ALWAYS hire on merit. this is just stupid

[QUOTE=lope;53172536]I was using the collective term "white people" because the post I was responding to did. My point is, you can't say racism isn't alive today. You can't say the problems with what white people did are only in the past. There are still people today who are racist and do racist things. I agree that white people as a collective shouldn't be punished, but I disagree that people today did nothing wrong and it's all our ancestors and in the past. And in re to the bolded, I never implied minorities or others races can't be racist. I thought me saying I don't condone what Google did was me making clear that I believe what Google did is racist. We were talking about white people, so I focused the argument on white people, and past examples of how white people have been racist. Hell, even during the LA Riots, which I referenced, there was plenty of black-on-black and black-on-white racism. E: Also, please don't pretend to quote me then change what I actually said. Yes, as I said, I disagree with the argument that white people (maybe not YOU) have done nothing wrong today and it's all our ancestors. I would also disagree with the argument that black people have done nothing wrong. However, I wanted to clarify that I do not disagree with the idea that "[I]white people today [as a collective] should not be punished for these things[/I] " (I thought the whole "those found guilty of hate crimes" clarified the collective thing)[/QUOTE] As someone of mixed genetics born in absolute destitution I'm quite curious as to where I'm supposed to fit in your venn diagram of contextless scapegoats. [editline]3rd March 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=lilguy;53172684]Asians are Schrodinger's minority based on whatever is convenient for your argument. "Asians are people of color and are on our side!" "Asians are ousting true minorities from jobs in tech companies!" Vice's argument was basically that Asians contribute to white supremacy because they work hard, earn money, and don't protest. [URL]http://www.vice.com/read/how-asian-americans-contribute-to-white-supremacy[/URL][/QUOTE] Vice has the fanciful unicorn arguments they have because no one of credible worth challenges their junior high view of how the world should be.

[QUOTE=Thom12255;53172031]As a white male it hurts to think that I could be qualified for something but passed up because of what I look like. BUT, I do understand why this is, minorities for decades were passed up because of what they looked like and thus don't make up the proporition of the work force in some industiries that they really should be entitled to. It sucks that this happens but it sucks that it happened to them and it has to be corrected somehow.[/QUOTE] I am a white man that has spoken against the actions of those before me. If you discriminate against me for the color of my skin what makes you any better than those before? The only thing that should matter is qualifications, not how you look or where you're from.

[QUOTE=geel9;53172498]People who have nothing to do with me. I do not inherit their guilt in any sense whatsoever.[/QUOTE] Don't: Inherit guilt. Do: Look at posts like the following and see the problems in them. [QUOTE=ilikecorn;53173401]I mean why wouldn't you hire someone who works hard and isn't going to cause trouble at the company? I'm far more likely to hire the guy who I know is going to be at work every day on time, and get his job done, than the guy who spends half the day on facebook looking for things to protest, and the other half of his day churning out some half finished bullshit. Its not racist to want the best employees, its common sense. A company exists to make money, you don't make money by making stupid decisions like "oh we need to hire more blacks and women, regardless of if they're qualified or not". Hiring the best people for the job is the only actual "equal" option.[/QUOTE] You have just declared that you consider people who don't speak up/people who take the abuse as "going to be at work every day on time, and get his job done" (normal) as opposed to "spending half the day on facebook looking for things to protest". Anyone who comes into the workplace with dark skin will have to explain twice as hard or it will have to be blatantly obvious to get across the idea to you that there might be discrimination toward them from your other workers. This double standard will definitely be noticed and you'll have less black people speaking up, more harassment toward them as people push boundaries, a whisper network and a set of lawsuits brewing. That's pretty much the entire basis of #metoo and the current state of white supremacy*. Everyone is kinda expected to treat certain pretty terrible things as being normal. Black people got ground into the dirt, all that needs to happen right now is to keep the current attitudes going for them to stew in their lead painted filled houses, keep the war on drugs going, keep the status quo, take offense to their legitimate grievances and say that they have their rights written down on paper now so they shouldn't be asking for anything more. *white supremacy as I understand it contains not only the KKK marching in the street but also attitudes and behaviours including common held beliefs that keep minorities down.

[QUOTE=LuaChobo;53173811]imagine having to out yourself as trans/gay/etc to get a job because they dont wanna hire whiteys[/QUOTE] I'm trying to find the news story guy who self-identified as a transgender lesbian who doesn't want to go through surgery in order to get more benefits but I can't find it anywhere...

[QUOTE=silaz;53172049]I mean, it's not like you can just blame current white people on past white people's mistakes, and use that as justification for discrimination against them now.[/QUOTE] Stop looking at it as punishment for one

[QUOTE=Dr. Fishtastic;53174088]Stop looking at it as punishment for one[/QUOTE] Stop trying to weasel out of calling it what it is. Racism. Selective punishment based on your skin color.

[QUOTE=Anteep;53172132]doesn't that go against employment laws? in the uk any company found to discriminate based on race will be in a LOT of trouble[/QUOTE] Fighting against this tho is incredibly difficult if outright not possible at all. They may never tell you that they didn't hire you coz you're a man/white, just say that they found a better pick. How would you argue that you are a better pick? [editline]3rd March 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=WitheredGryphon;53172190]As was mentioned, there’s a lot that goes into it. First it’s fucking [b]hard[/b] to prove you weren’t hired based on something like this. You’d have to end up in a situation where you know 100% that you were better qualified in every single way over every single applicant. Any discrepancy can be used against you as a reason to not hire you which makes using these quotas so much easier. [/QUOTE] Even if you do, employer/HR might, and in this case, [b] will argue[/b] that they found your attitude or character or something worse compared to others, hence you werent picked. It's one of those things where justice won't ever work.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;53174175]No, I said I expect this of my employees: Show up on time, Do your job, Go home. In exchange, you'll get: Pay, and Benefits. Don't do the above? Get fired. Simple as that. What you do in your own time is entirely on you, if you want to be politically active on your days off, that's cool. That's also not my problem. That's your problem, if you so chose to do that. Asking for days off to go protest is fine, just realize that the deadline for your project isn't going to change, and i'm going to hold you accountable if your project isn't complete. My attitudes aren't "keeping minorities down", its keeping my company productive and competitive, which, at the end of the day, is what the company EXISTS FOR. It's not a double standard to hold everyone to the same standard, that's equal opportunity. You're seeking equal outcome, which is fucking bullshit.[/QUOTE] I agree wholeheartedly, businesses aren't a charity, and anyone who treats them as anything more than a means to an end, usually to create or sell a product, are delusional about their purpose. Businesses and Jobs are not your friend.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;53174175]No, I said I expect this of my employees: Show up on time, Do your job, Go home. In exchange, you'll get: Pay, and Benefits. Don't do the above? Get fired. Simple as that. What you do in your own time is entirely on you, if you want to be politically active on your days off, that's cool. That's also not my problem. That's your problem, if you so chose to do that. Asking for days off to go protest is fine, just realize that the deadline for your project isn't going to change, and i'm going to hold you accountable if your project isn't complete. My attitudes aren't "keeping minorities down", its keeping my company productive and competitive, which, at the end of the day, is what the company EXISTS FOR. It's not a double standard to hold everyone to the same standard, that's equal opportunity. You're seeking equal outcome, which is fucking bullshit.[/QUOTE] I'm not necessarily talking about your hiring practices, more about the effects of those perceptions and attitudes inside the workplace. That's the attitude that leads to #metoo. Right now you're just another boss in the chain that'll put talent over toxicity, make it harder or just as hard to come out and say something. As an employer part of your job is to provide a working environment where people are treated fairly. If you don't, you'll [url=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/03/opinion/lost-einsteins-innovation-inequality.html]lose out on smart people[/url]. Part of being fair is to not be a "neutral" because "neutrality" isn't actually neutrality, it's "the status quo" pretending to be neutrality. Remember that you just held up asians taking abuse and working as being normal. [quote]My attitudes aren't "keeping minorities down", its keeping my company productive and competitive, which, at the end of the day, is what the company EXISTS FOR[/quote] This is the part that you should learn more about and is analogous to victim blaming. Remember that the article you're replying to says this: [quote]"Model minority" is a term that came into use during the civil rights movement, first put forth by sociologist William Peterson to frame a comparison of "ethnic minorities," to divide and conquer. Asian Americans, it was said, kept their mouths shut, worked hard, and eventually succeeded, so why couldn't African Americans do so? Why did they have to keep fighting and bringing the focus back to race? [/quote] "Just shut up for 4 more decades as we only let in rich asians (because it takes a lot of $$ to immigrate and also we didn't mass import them as penniless slaves and then grind them into the dirt like black people) so that your reputations get better, also pls forget the internment camps, and then we'll treat you all right". [QUOTE=ilikecorn;53173401]Hiring the best people for the job is the only actual "equal" option.[/QUOTE] As an aside this is just bad business sense. GJ making stuff that only appeals to the people like you and missing out on other markets, GJ being out of touch, GJ making ikea furniture with names that sound like sex acts in other languages. GJ never having movies like "the ring" or "get out" GJ trying to sell star wars in china. Even just knowing 2 languages gives me a perspective on how shitty some programming practices are like how your computer won't spell check in 2 languages at the same time or twitter will offer to translate either halves of my timeline. Being different is worth money.

[QUOTE=01271;53174488]I'm not necessarily talking about your hiring practices, more about the effects of those perceptions and attitudes inside the workplace. That's the attitude that leads to #metoo. Right now you're just another boss in the chain that'll put talent over toxicity, make it harder or just as hard to come out and say something. As an employer part of your job is to provide a working environment where people are treated fairly. If you don't, you'll [url=https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/03/opinion/lost-einsteins-innovation-inequality.html]lose out on smart people[/url]. Part of being fair is to not be a "neutral" because "neutrality" isn't actually neutrality, it's "the status quo" pretending to be neutrality. Remember that you just held up asians taking abuse and working as being normal. This is the part that you should learn more about and is analogous to victim blaming. Remember that the article you're replying to says this: "Just shut up for 4 more decades as we only let in rich asians (because it takes a lot of $$ to immigrate and also we didn't mass import them as penniless slaves and then grind them into the dirt like black people) so that your reputations get better, also pls forget the internment camps, and then we'll treat you all right". As an aside this is just bad business sense. GJ making stuff that only appeals to the people like you and missing out on other markets, GJ being out of touch, GJ making ikea furniture with names that sound like sex acts in other languages. GJ never having movies like "the ring" or "get out" GJ trying to sell star wars in china. Even just knowing 2 languages gives me a perspective on how shitty some programming practices are like how your computer won't spell check in 2 languages at the same time or twitter will offer to translate either halves of my timeline. Being different is worth money.[/QUOTE] It sounds like you want "equity of outcomes". I do not.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;53174524]So its racist to hire based on merrit, and use to the company? You realize you're basically saying that minorities are entirely incapable of having merit, and use to the company, therefore we must coddle them into jobs, right? Do you not realize just how shitty that sounds, for EVERYONE involved? It is not my responsibility to enforce some magical diversity quota, its my responsibility to ensure the company makes money, so that my employees can get paid, and my company can continue to grow. Sure, it'd be nice to magically have a perfectly "diverse" job, but if the company is actively losing money because of shitty business practices because you didn't hire the best people, then that nice job you have is only going to be around for a few months.[/QUOTE] You're confusing direct criticism of your thinking with me discussing the original article in the op. You replied to someone linking a vice article on asians contributing to white supremacy by not fighting against discrimination and you said it was good that they did that. It is not good.

wait a minute, isn't this actual racism?

[QUOTE=pramadito;53174677]wait a minute, isn't this actual racism?[/QUOTE] Just replace it with "excluded black and hispanic females" and see if it sounds wrong. If it does, it's racist.

[QUOTE=ilikecorn;53174661]No, I said that I fail to see how "showing up to work and doing your job" is contributing to white supremacy. Because its not.[/QUOTE] [quote]"Model minority" is a term that came into use during the civil rights movement, first put forth by sociologist William Peterson to frame a comparison of "ethnic minorities," to divide and conquer. Asian Americans, it was said, kept their mouths shut, worked hard, and eventually succeeded, so why couldn't African Americans do so? Why did they have to keep fighting and bringing the focus back to race?[/quote] Not dealing with the bullshit allows the bullshit to remain and spread like a mold. Being the subject of racism in the workplace and not speaking out about it keeps that racism around. This is of course not the fault of the person against whom racism is being done, that would be victim blaming, it takes courage to deal with discrimination when you rely on money from your job to be alive. It's the fault of the person doing the racism and the fault of people letting them do it. (bystanders, coworkers, HR, the boss) Simply waiting for them to speak up isn't enough because again that's a burden on them and it's hard to come out about this shit. A proactive solution is required. Essentially as a company you have to be anti-racism rather than neutral. Youtube (in this article) isn't doing so btw. They're doing the ol' liberal kludge of affirmative action.

[QUOTE=geel9;53174684]Just replace it with "excluded black and hispanic females" and see if it sounds wrong. If it does, it's racist.[/QUOTE] It's kinda sad we have to do this

[QUOTE=01271;53174636]You're confusing direct criticism of your thinking with me discussing the original article in the op. You replied to someone linking a vice article on asians contributing to white supremacy by not fighting against discrimination and you said it was good that they did that. It is not good.[/QUOTE] You are conflating "do your job" with "don't speak up about discrimination you are facing". You can both do your job AND talk to HR about discrimination you face.

[QUOTE=VenomousBeetle;53174726]It's kinda sad we have to do this[/QUOTE] It is extremely depressing that people have to be instructed how to even see and recognize [i]blatant racism[/i].