Shooting at Florida School, Shooter IS in custody. - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=OvB;53131995]We gotta start filling in the cracks through which mass killers fall through.[/QUOTE] i think the problem is that the cracks are being chipped wider. our schools' horrendous Zero Tolerance approach to bullying, obsessions with fame, and the news media's clockwork exploitation of tragedy for money, these are a few things that i believe are causing school shootings in particular to happen.

I feel like student-related school shootings can be stopped entirely if we actually gave a shit about adolescent mental health. Too man kids are depressed and hurting themselves. Too many kids feel alone. Guns are a sterile thing. They don't shoot anything without being told to do so. Kids don't generally bring guns to school and tell them to shoot their classmates for no reason. If we gave these kids places to turn to instead of violence we wouldn't have this problem. [QUOTE=Ninja Gnome;53132060]i think the problem is that the cracks are being chipped wider. our schools' horrendous Zero Tolerance approach to bullying, obsessions with fame, and the news media's clockwork exploitation of tragedy for money, these are a few things that i believe are causing school shootings in particular to happen.[/QUOTE] Basically: [QUOTE=OvB;53132034]Society is the problem.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=butre;53132028]very few private citizens do gun shows, the ones who do usually aren't selling, or at least aren't selling guns.[/QUOTE] Says who? You? You can argue ratios all you want, the fact of the matter is that in some states you can in fact buy unlicensed weapons with no background checks from private sellers. I would argue from experience that the number of private sellers at gun shows goes far beyond "very few", also.

[QUOTE=Llamalord;53132016]I think the most fucked up part of all of this is if you google the story, how many online news organizations are clammering for clicks and views from people curious about the story so they make sensational headline to attract viewer ship. Aka doing the completely opposite of what they should be doing which is let local news cover the story instead of blowing it up. The whole system makes me sick to my stomach.[/QUOTE] Kinda fucked of those tweets from the person stuck inside and the news Twitters begging for questions.

[QUOTE=TraderRager;53132047]In all but 19 states you can sell a firearm without a background check or waiting period, but FLL licensed gun stores require these things. Some gun show booths might comply with FLL, but many of them do not at all and can legally sell firearms without even seeing an ID.[/QUOTE] "comply with ffl" are you just throwing together words you've heard before in hopes that it makes sense or what?

[QUOTE=OvB;53132062]I feel like student-related school shootings can be stopped entirely if we actually gave a shit about adolescent mental health. Too man kids are depressed and hurting themselves. Too many kids feel alone. Guns are a sterile thing. They don't shoot anything without being told to do so. Kids don't generally bring guns to school and tell them to shoot their classmates for no reason. If we gave these kids places to turn to instead of violence we wouldn't have this problem.[/QUOTE] that and schools [i]really[/i] need to change their policy when it comes to bullying or anything of the sort. a majority seem to be either completely zero tolerance, where the bully AND the victim are punished, or that the school just doesnt give a shit about whats happening and doesnt take any real action.

Can we get like every mod, admin, and janitor in here to instaban people that try and start debates thanks [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Off Topic Not the thread you should be discussing this." - Kiwi))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=joshuadim;53132014]I just didn't feel comfortable bringing up and discussing politics when people's lives were in danger of being taken from them. I guess I'll just never understand that because it feels wrong to me. If someone could explain to me in PMs I would greatly appreciate it, I'll stop posting in the thread now because it seems all I'm doing is not helping.[/QUOTE] I don't see why any of that exactly matters. "But it's happening right now," doesn't mean much unless someone here in this thread was a police officer who could actively take action to diffuse the situation. Our discussing it while it occurs or a week after has no bearing on the outcome of the particular shooting. [QUOTE=butre;53132028]very few private citizens do gun shows, the ones who do usually aren't selling, or at least aren't selling guns.[/QUOTE] It's the distinct minority of gun sales, but it's an amount of them, nonetheless, these transactions do occur in some quantity. Most 'loopholes' are similarly underused, but the fact this space exists at all outside the norm by definition makes it a loophole, even if no one is actively abusing it.

feel like the discussion of gun shows is a red herring especially in relation to this shooting. close any loopholes that might exist in regards to them and this still would have happened.

The thing is, these events aren’t tragedies. Tragedies are unpreventable. These unnecessary calamities are the direct result of policy decisions made by radicalized conservatives funded by gun lobbyists. These people need to be held accountable yet all they have done is double down on pro gun policy agenda. [b]and fuck praying, praying is passive and self centered sympathy. We need ACTION, or it’s going to be you or me or your nieces/nephews or aunts or fathers or friends or anyone you love who is next to die from a mass shooting.[/b]

[QUOTE=Zakkshockv2;53132075]Can we get like every mod, admin, and janitor in here to instaban people that try and start debates thanks[/QUOTE] You're on the wrong forum, buddy.

[QUOTE=Alxnotorious;53132040]The country is seeing the next generation of politicians enter the stage now. The next two to four upcoming election years will set the stage. Luckily, it appears the backlash from the 2016 election is encouraging more liberal young adults to run for office. If the domino effect can continue past 2018, there is a good chance of some actual change, but voters must be driven to vote. The best solution to our problems now is future-proofing the political landscape. I'm not saying the Democrats will be the end-all, but it's a good start, especially considering where we are now.[/QUOTE] i dunno man, every generation we say "ah, yes, THIS will be the great liberal generation who will see through the republican lies" but there are plenty of conservative kids growing up too (see also: the alt-right) who will happily believe everything their parents and fox news tell them. plus you gotta consider the timescale this is gonna happen on -- the government is constantly changing sides and with our wonderful polarization it means all they'll do is try to erase what the previous administration did, and so any long-term projects (like reducing gun saturation) will die the instant the white house and congress and the senate change colors (plus consider the funding gap, gerrymandering, voter suppression, and the fact that someone out there is watching what trump's gotten away with and taking notes -- i don't see a bright blue future)

[QUOTE=butre;53132073]"comply with ffl" are you just throwing together words you've heard before in hopes that it makes sense or what?[/QUOTE] Why are you being a dick when you obviously know what he means? You literally walk up to booths and say "are you FFL?", and they'll say yes or no. Being pretentious and condescending is even worse when you're wrong.

went to a debate tournament in high school in stoneman douglas back in high school years ago One of the kids there said they felt like someone was going to shoot the place up one day. very jarring to see that it came true

Supposedly two explosives on site from twitter reports citing police scanner activity.

[QUOTE=Llamalord;53132083]The thing is, these events aren’t tragedies. Tragedies are unpreventable. [/QUOTE] Except they are, any country no matter how strict the gun laws are (im lookin at you france) [I]still[/I] have shootings. Any human with a desire to kill will do so no matter what tool(s) they must use to complete their task. Banning guns is nothing more than feel-good "think of the children" bullshit that will prevent nothing [highlight](User was permabanned for this post ("Alt" - Kiwi))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=Llamalord;53132083]The thing is, these events aren’t tragedies. Tragedies are unpreventable. These unnecessary calamities are the direct result of policy decisions made by radicalized conservatives funded by gun lobbyists. These people need to be held accountable yet all they have done is double down on pro gun policy agenda.[/QUOTE] do you honestly believe that the gun was egging the kid on or something? spoons make you fat and my keyboard is to blame for all the words I've butchered over the years

[QUOTE=srobins;53132006]No? In AZ you can go to a gun show and buy a gun without any licensing or paperwork assuming it's a private seller.[/QUOTE] Just because you meet a guy at a gun show who is selling privately doesn't mean there's a loophole with a gun show. You can literally do that anywhere, whether it's at a gun show or a Walmart parking lot, and by far one of the hardest things to regulate and enforce (although a few states such as Cali have laws on the books) Any table you find at a gun show with guns on it has a licensed dealers involved.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;53132112]Just because you meet a guy at a gun show who is selling privately doesn't mean there's a loophole with a gun show. You can literally do that anywhere, whether it's at a gun show or a Walmart parking lot, and by far one of the hardest things to regulate and enforce (although a few states such as Cali have laws on the books) Any table you find at a gun show with guns on it has a licensed dealers involved.[/QUOTE] Uh, no, that isn't true. It's not just "meeting a guy at a gun show", private sellers can rent booths at gun shows, and do so regularly. Obviously you can also buy guns on Backpage or other means of finding private sellers, but I'm pretty sure that's what the "gun show loophole" refers to: Being able to buy unlicensed weapons from private sellers outside of a gun store.

[QUOTE=Malachor;53132103]Except they are, any country no matter how strict the gun laws are (im lookin at you france) [I]still[/I] have shootings. Any human with a desire to kill will do so no matter what tool(s) they must use to complete their task. Banning guns is nothing more than feel-good "think of the children" bullshit that will prevent nothing[/QUOTE] "every year 11,000 people are murdered with guns, we think we can cut that number in half in 20 years" "NO THERE WILL STILL BE SOME, WE MUST DO NOTHING" by that logic, why bother? no matter what you do, there will still be murders and rapes and car crashes and deaths by cancer, so why try to stop anything tbh

[QUOTE=TraderRager;53131961]Okay, I'm imagining. I propose a bill where the nation offers a mass buyback all semi-automatic firearms and institutes more thorough background checks and stronger punishments for those who allow firearms to end up in the possession of unlicensed users. It also closes the Gun Show loophole. Use of any firearm capable of semi-automatic fire (including pistols) requires a different license then more traditional hunting weapons (Bolt, Lever, Pump, and Break-action type firearms). Continued ownership of the before mentioned semi-automatic firearms is a felony, but you have 12 months from when the legislation is passed to sell them or get the new license.[/QUOTE] The problem with legislation like this is that you'll never get gun owners - even ones who themselves support stronger gun control - on your side with it. I see the intent behind it, and I know what you're going for, but it comes across as treating current gun owners like criminals when in reality, the percentage of legal gun owners who commit crimes is [I]miniscule[/I]. With something like this, law-abiding gun owners will take one look and be against it because it does absolutely nothing for them. Stopping crime by making more criminals isn't the path forward, particularly not when you threaten a large swath of the population with becoming "paper criminals" simply because of a hobby or a preferred method of defense (or a [I]necessary[/I] method of defense - rural areas spring to mind). Offer your buyback - but make it optional. Offer incentive, [I]but make it optional.[/I] Implement greater background checks - but first, mandate that the agencies behind the NICS check actually do their job. As it stands, [url=https://www.fbi.gov/services/cjis/nics/a-nics-delay]if the FBI does not respond to a NICS check within three business days, the FFL can legally sell the weapon regardless.[/url] Put a stop to this. Enforce existing legislation first. I'm not saying the background check system is perfect as-is, or that it would even be sufficient if it functioned as it's meant to. As a pro-gun individual, I strongly support universal background checks and different laws regarding private sales. But the key to accomplishing this is working alongside legal gun owners and finding reasonable compromises, not jumping immediately to such a drastic label.

[QUOTE=Toybasher;53132100]Supposedly two explosives on site from twitter reports citing police scanner activity.[/QUOTE] Is it possible that this was also one of the weapons originally used? If so, this guy planned this out for some time.

[QUOTE=srobins;53132123]Uh, no, that isn't true. It's not just "meeting a guy at a gun show", private sellers can rent booths at gun shows, and do so regularly. Obviously you can also buy guns on Backpage or other means of finding private sellers, but I'm pretty sure that's what the "gun show loophole" refers to: Being able to buy unlicensed weapons from private sellers outside of a gun store.[/QUOTE] And in that particular situation that's entirely dictated by state law. So instead of calling it a gun show loophole why don't you call it the private sale loophole? Because that's the problem folks have.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;53132115]just as it is a lot easier and quicker to commit suicide with a gun over other methods, it is also easier to rationalize killing people when a gun is easily accessible to you[/QUOTE] if you honestly believe that having a tool makes rationalizing murder easier then I think I may have found someone who shouldn't have a gun.

They just showed a video of the inside on Fox where a BALD shooter in a BLUE shirt told everyone to go to the front of the auditorium. The suspect arrested had a maroon shirt and full head of hair..

Stepping away from the Sisyphean FP gun debate for a moment to talk about motive. I wonder if Valentines day has anything to do with it? Was it a legit fire drill or did the kid pull the alarm? Perhaps the kid planned it out for valentines day because he felt alone/rejected by his classmates on top of underlying mental health issues. Perhaps he felt suicidal/angry at his peers? Who knows, but Valentines day seems like a big coincidence.

[QUOTE=butre;53132135]if you honestly believe that having a [B]tool [/B]makes rationalizing murder easier then I think I may have found someone who shouldn't have a gun.[/QUOTE] Yeah, guns are just tools. They're very efficient and precise tools, engineered for the sole purpose of causing bodily harm

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;53132134]So instead of calling it a gun show loophole why don't you call it the private sale loophole? Because that's the problem folks have.[/QUOTE] Doesn't grab Americans tiny attention span budget as well on the nightly news.

[QUOTE=butre;53132135]if you honestly believe that having a tool makes rationalizing murder easier then I think I may have found someone who shouldn't have a gun.[/QUOTE] I think of the saying "if all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail"

[QUOTE=srobins;53132123]Uh, no, that isn't true. It's not just "meeting a guy at a gun show", private sellers can rent booths at gun shows, and do so regularly. Obviously you can also buy guns on Backpage or other means of finding private sellers, but I'm pretty sure that's what the "gun show loophole" refers to: Being able to buy unlicensed weapons from private sellers outside of a gun store.[/QUOTE] And that's functionally and legally no different from putting up a listing on Armslist and then driving to a Wal-Mart parking lot to sell a gun, private sale, no background check. If you want to open up the NICS to private citizens and then mandate all sales have a background check, I'm 100% for that. If you want to create a new universal background check system like the one Rep. Coburn proposed (and which was rejected by Democrats), I'm all for that as well. If you want to just ban private sale, then at least that's clear and honest. It's calling it the 'gun show loophole' that's borderline euphemistic. Private sale isn't a loophole, it's an intended part of the regulation on FFLs.