Shooting at Florida School, Shooter IS in custody. - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;53132134]And in that particular situation that's entirely dictated by state law. So instead of calling it a gun show loophole why don't you call it the private sale loophole? Because that's the problem folks have.[/QUOTE] What even is the point of this argument we're having, aside from you being wrong about private sales at gun shows ("every booth is FFL!")? Are we just arguing about the branding of the term "Gun Show Loophole"? Because I don't really care about that debate.

[QUOTE=Toybasher;53132100]Supposedly two explosives on site from twitter reports citing police scanner activity.[/QUOTE] ok yeah so this guy had explosives and y'all think firearms legislation would have done anything? explosives are generally illegal for anyone without a specific sot or a $200 tax stamp for each device. there isn't a mass proliferation of bombs in this country. no legislation could've prevented anything about this, because there is already relevant legislation and it didn't stop shit

The real question people should be asking is why is this happening more often? AR-15's and other semi-auto rifles have been available for decades, but until the late 20th century they were seldom used in crime, let along school shootings. What changed? Why are more and more people doing it?

[QUOTE=catbarf;53132151]And that's functionally and legally no different from putting up a listing on Armslist and then driving to a Wal-Mart parking lot to sell a gun, private sale, no background check. If you want to open up the NICS to private citizens and then mandate all sales have a background check, I'm 100% for that. If you want to create a new universal background check system like the one Rep. Coburn proposed (and which was rejected by Democrats), I'm all for that as well. If you want to just ban private sale, then at least that's clear and honest. It's calling it the 'gun show loophole' that's borderline euphemistic. Private sale isn't a loophole, it's an intended part of the regulation on FFLs.[/QUOTE] washington state has mandatory background checks on all private sales, if anything i liked having it there. gave an easy, safe meetup spot (a licensed gun store) and gave me the peace of mind that i'm not potentially getting something stolen.

dude jaywalked, he aint afraid to break laws!!! but seriously, making certain guns illegal makes them harder to obtain

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;53132156]The real question people should be asking is why is this happening more often? AR-15's and other semi-auto rifles have been available for decades, but until the late 20th century they were seldom used in crime, let along school shootings? What changed? Why are more and more people doing it?[/QUOTE] Internet probably

of course, if someone wanted to illegally sell their gun, this law wouldn't stop them

[QUOTE=butre;53132154]ok yeah so this guy had explosives and y'all think firearms legislation would have done anything? explosives are generally illegal for anyone without a specific sot or a $200 tax stamp for each device. there isn't a mass proliferation of bombs in this country. no legislation could've prevented anything about this, because there is already relevant legislation and it didn't stop shit[/QUOTE] I would hold off on speculation about explosives until it's confirmed. "reports" are often wrong in these situations.

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;53132156]The real question people should be asking is why is this happening more often? AR-15's and other semi-auto rifles have been available for decades, but until the late 20th century they were seldom used in crime, let along school shootings? What changed? Why are more and more people doing it?[/QUOTE] Probably publicity about these kinds of shootings. they know they can get them and they know that they work

[QUOTE=LoLWaT?;53132159]Is that one image of his instagram account accurate?:disappoint:[/QUOTE] What exactly was on the instagram account?

sam hyde has done it again [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Shitposting" - UncleJimmema))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53132163]dude jaywalked, he aint afraid to break laws!!! but seriously, making certain guns illegal makes them harder to obtain[/QUOTE] it didn't make the bombs that hard to obtain apparently

[QUOTE=butre;53132177]it didn't make the bombs that hard to obtain apparently[/QUOTE] It may have, we can't know because they aren't legal and illegal simultaneously. also ffs guns /= bombs

[QUOTE=butre;53132177]it didn't make the bombs that hard to obtain apparently[/QUOTE] like really, see that you're not making sense [editline]14th February 2018[/editline] merrrge

[QUOTE=RichyZ;53132190]somebody heard that somebody heard a code from a police scanner in the area possibly designating a bomb on the site yeah[/QUOTE] wow, that's some hard evidence there...

[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;53132156]The real question people should be asking is why is this happening more often? AR-15's and other semi-auto rifles have been available for decades, but until the late 20th century they were seldom used in crime, let along school shootings. What changed? Why are more and more people doing it?[/QUOTE] I feel like with the AR-15 it's a sort of Streisand effect. It's been so publicized now as the gun mass shooters use that its the gun aspiring mass shootings obtain. If you banned it people would just use some other semi-auto rifle like a hi-point or mini-14 or some other innocuous rifle picked up from Academy.

[QUOTE=RichyZ;53132179]stuff like zero tolerance and the rise of mental illness visibility/lack of care for it both in a cultural and societal level certainly doesn't help in the 80s you could just kick a bully's ass (or try to anyhow), nowadays you might as well go balls deep since the means of shooting folks is easier and the punishment for actually fighting may as well be on par with shooting a guy anyway in the eyes of a young person[/QUOTE] feel weird saying it but it is better to let them fight it out than the shitshow of "punishing ALL sides" that we have today

[QUOTE=butre;53132135]if you honestly believe that having a tool makes rationalizing murder easier then I think I may have found someone who shouldn't have a gun.[/QUOTE] Do you still think that watermills, screwdrivers, plows and ak47's are all the same thing Because I'm going to continue reminding you that it's an insanely dangerous way of thinking [editline]14th February 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=butre;53132109]do you honestly believe that the gun was egging the kid on or something? spoons make you fat and my keyboard is to blame for all the words I've butchered over the years[/QUOTE] Obviously not, but if you want to commit murder, a gun is the easiest way to do it

[QUOTE=OvB;53132192]I feel like with the AR-15 it's a sort of Streisand effect. It's been so publicized now as the gun mass shooters use that its the gun aspiring mass shootings obtain. If you banned it people would just use some other semi-auto rifle like a hi-point or mini-14 or some other innocuous rifle picked up from Academy.[/QUOTE] I don't think his point was specifically AR-15s. I mean, semi-automatic rifles have been publicly available for over a hundred years. The lethality of the weapons available to the public really hasn't changed in literally decades (they've actually gotten harder to acquire), but mass shootings and in particular school shootings have spiked in occurrence. We go back and forth over whether we need to now ban guns that have already been on the market for half a century, but not much is said about why it's only becoming a problem now. Something's changed, and it's not the guns, but we don't conclusively know what or why.

[QUOTE=butre;53132109]do you honestly believe that the gun was egging the kid on or something? spoons make you fat and my keyboard is to blame for all the words I've butchered over the years[/QUOTE] if someone who's mentally troubled (perhaps by being bullied by people at school, dunno if they have possible reasons why the person did it) has access to a knife, they probably aren't going to do anything with it, or if they do it will probably be more managable but if they have access to a gun, easy access at that, it turns it into a whole other situation. I know you care a lot about your guns and w/e else, but gun access does need to be pushed to a new level. Background checks especially need more fine tuning, because you still hear about a lot of this shit, where some mentally deranged person goes on a killing spree, and it's later found that they just got the gun from a gun store, even after they had been diagnosed with an illness. But it isn't just guns, there also needs to be extreme changes with schools and their administration.

[QUOTE=Kiwi;53132180]Is this the part where we can break down the mental gymnastics around each one of your posts claiming that nothing could have prevented this when nobody has even tried because nobody can agree? You're doing exactly what the Government isn't doing. Running around like a headless chicken without actually thinking and trying to solve the problem. It keeps getting worse and I wonder why.[/QUOTE] I don't see how "relevant legislation didn't help" is mental gymnastics, and I feel like "mental gymnastics" is just a buzzword at this point that's just pulled out so you dont actually have to put any effort into refuting anything. I've proposed legitimate answers in previous threads and have felt no reason to repeat myself, but if you want it a few examples are stop demonizing mental health issues so people might actually seek out the help they need, throw away zero tolerance policies entirely so that teachers, guidance counselors, and principals have to actually do their job, and allow early entry into the job force as a replacement for later mandatory schooling so that kids that don't want to be in school (including most would-be mass shooters) dont have to be there

[QUOTE=butre;53132135]if you honestly believe that having a tool makes rationalizing murder easier then I think I may have found someone who shouldn't have a gun.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I'll just go murder a large group of people with this hammer right here. Which is its intended use, as a tool.

[QUOTE=catbarf;53132206]I don't think his point was specifically AR-15s. I mean, semi-automatic rifles have been publicly available for over a hundred years. The lethality of the weapons available to the public really hasn't changed in literally decades (they've actually gotten harder to acquire), but mass shootings and in particular school shootings have spiked in occurrence.[/QUOTE] School shootings have probably spiked because it's become a thing that people realized you could do after Columbine. It wasn't really in people's minds at all to do it, but then it happened and people caught on.

[QUOTE=butre;53132135]if you honestly believe that having a tool makes rationalizing murder easier then I think I may have found someone who shouldn't have a gun.[/QUOTE] who likely ends up with one Look, i'm usually arguging for guns in threads like these because some ridiculous opinions get thrown out. This thread hasn't had that really, it's had some really rational discussion and I know you as a gun loving american who has the legal right to wield them won't like to hear this, but the country really has to rethink a lot about how it's going about these issues because it's clear nothing that your side has offered has helped. It has only made it worse, and it has literally increased the divide in the US political spectrum by a wide margin. It's time to be rational about your beliefs, and stop holding on to them just because you can. This is an epidemic that is only going to get worse in the face of a looming economic crisis. Things like this issue need to be dealt with, and at some level that means you and every other gun loving american will have to reconsider your beliefs on the subject at a personal level because it's become quite apparent the mindset that much of the gun loving side has proliferated has backfired and injured the host society all for the purpose of selling a product.

[QUOTE=catbarf;53132206]Something's changed, and it's not the guns, but we don't conclusively know what or why.[/QUOTE] Society as a whole has changed and is a lot more fast-paced, with higher expectations for everyone. It used to be the world was as big as your intimidate town/region. Hell it wasn't that long ago. When I was in high school MySpace was the thing and Facebook was just getting off the ground. FP was my biggest exposure to the world at large. Even then we had the expectation that if you weren't ready to go to college for a planned out career by freshman year you were doomed. Now everything is multiplied to extremes. A 10 year old has more access to information than I had in my teens. Kid's are expected to be everything previous generations were and then some while also having to look up to role models that are completely impossible if not unhealthy to follow. They're told constantly by society that they're not good enough, not pretty enough, not hot enough, that they don't have the voice or face to be the next YouTube star or that their Instagram ain't shit, etc, etc. The world as a whole expects a lot more out of children than we did 10-20-30 years ago. All this time we've progressed in terms of access of information but not in terms of how we deal with the negative repercussions of that. Kids are under a lot of stress these days. Not even to get started on the perceived bleakness of the future we're giving them.

[QUOTE=ZnT00;53132143]Yeah, guns are just tools. They're very efficient and precise tools, engineered for the sole purpose of causing bodily harm[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Rossy167;53132217]Yeah, I'll just go murder a large group of people with this hammer right here. Which is its intended use, as a tool.[/QUOTE] I don't really get this whole "Guns are designed to KILL innocent people and that's IT" mentality. Of the millions upon millions of rifles owned in the US, they are used in [URL="https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls"]very low numbers [/URL]proportionate to the amount of guns out there. The vast, vast, vast majority of people who own guns use them to target shoot, collect, hunt, modify like lego's, and allow people to defend themselves. I guess they are all just using them incorrectly? Anyways, I think if we can reduce the amount of these events by changing mental health and school conflict policies before institution nonsense weapon restrictions, that would be a much better solution because with that avenue you still respect people's fundamental rights.

Hey- I'm working on that bigass post now but I have to fix my lawnmower while it's sunny so I'll have it out in a bit. Sorry, I really am planning on getting to it.

The shooter was a student and well known for having some issues: [media]https://twitter.com/FOX5Vegas/status/963902001250582528[/media] [media]https://twitter.com/FOX5Vegas/status/963886021220868096[/media]

[QUOTE=Zombinie;53132255]I don't really get this whole "Guns are designed to KILL innocent people and that's IT" mentality. Of the millions upon millions of rifles owned in the US, they are used in [URL="https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls"]very low numbers [/URL]proportionate to the amount of guns out there. The vast, vast, vast majority of people who own guns use them to target shoot, collect, hunt, modify like lego's, and allow people to defend themselves. I guess they are all just using them incorrectly? Anyways, I think if we can reduce the amount of these events by changing mental health and school conflict policies before institution nonsense weapon restrictions, that would be a much better solution because with that avenue you still respect people's fundamental rights.[/QUOTE] ... or take a look at what other countries do with gun laws and give that a shot too

[QUOTE=Zombinie;53132255]I don't really get this whole "Guns are designed to KILL innocent people and that's IT" mentality. Of the millions upon millions of rifles owned in the US, they are used in [URL="https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/expanded-homicide-data/expanded_homicide_data_table_8_murder_victims_by_weapon_2010-2014.xls"]very low numbers [/URL]proportionate to the amount of guns out there. The vast, vast, vast majority of people who own guns use them to target shoot, collect, hunt, modify like lego's, and allow people to defend themselves. I guess they are all just using them incorrectly?[/QUOTE] It's a 'tool' but not in the way that Butre says it is, which is by comparing guns to actual tools like hammers, saws, etc. Regardless of what its being used for, it's designed in a way that's entirely separated from what a 'tool' is. It can be a tool for hunting but it should be in no way called one. It's not designed for demolition, construction, or recreation, only destruction. That's not a terrible thing, but it's distinctively direct and dangerous.