Shooting at Florida School, Shooter IS in custody. - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE]A law enforcement source briefed on the shooting said the suspect appears to have pulled the school fire alarm, causing chaos, and then started shooting, reports CBS News news senior investigative producer Pat Milton. ... Runcie said the shooter entered the school during dismissal. Israel said the shooter was outside and inside the school at various times. Runcie said there was no warning or threats made before the incident. ... Noah Parness, a 17-year-old junior, said the fire alarm went off for the second time of the day about 2:30 p.m. He said he and the other students calmly went outside to their fire drill areas when he suddenly heard several pops. "Everyone was kind of just standing there calm, and then we saw a bunch of teachers running down the stairway, and then everybody shifted and broke into a sprint," Parness said. "I hopped a fence." [/QUOTE] [url]https://www.cbsnews.com/news/school-shooting-at-marjory-stoneman-douglas-high-in-florida-live-updates/[/url]

[QUOTE=butre;53132396]you're comparing hunting rifles to hand grenades. that's so stupid that it could be an idiom.[/QUOTE] I'm not comparing them, I'm extrapolating that maybe there's a reason one is allowed but not the other. I'm also disputing the idiotic assumption that just because a store is a "one-stop-shot that sells everything" it has to sell guns. [QUOTE=Toybasher;53132399]Yes, actually. Explosives are typically classified as a destructive device under the NFA and thus require a lengthy process to obtain legally. Suppressors and even fully automatics are legal, too, but also are under the NFA. (Arguably suppressors should be removed but that's for a different discussion.)[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=OvB;53132403]I think hand grenades count as a destructive device so fall somewhere under the category as not completely illegal but extremely difficult to legally obtain. Therefore it would not make sense for walmart or even a gunstore to stock them. [/QUOTE] Hmm, so you're telling me there's blockades that prevent things like hand grenades and fully automatics to be obtained effectively through legal means, but these laws don't apply to [I]other [/I]weapons? :thinking: [QUOTE=OvB;53132403]I'm not sure what you're getting at. That because they don't sell Abrams tanks or something that they shouldn't sell a rifle to a farmer to kill gophers?[/QUOTE] You could just do what farmers in the rest of the civilized world do. Poison them, or drive them off your crops with literally a hundred other means. You don't need a gun to solve a pest problem. In fact I'm willing to bet you could solve a pest problem more effectively [I]without [/I]a gun. [QUOTE=OvB;53132403]Most guns in America do not kill people. Your perception of them as death machines is on you.[/QUOTE] Are you saying firearms were not invented with the intent to hurt or kill? What's that first rule of firearms again, uh... "don't aim at what you don't wish to destroy"? Something like that? I'm calling it what it is. Deathmachines. Most cars don't kill people either but most of the world have a hell of a legal system to prevent people from dying in car incidents.

It's a dumb, wasteful argument anyway since Walmart has been pulling back gun sales because of people who think it's a travesty. I don't think my local walmart sells them anymore (despite still having a hunting section). Now if you wanna get a gun you gotta go 2 miles down the road to the gun+truck parts store. (which actually sells a lot more in terms of "tactical" attachments and guns, so you pushed people away from the hunting guns store and sent them to the tacticool guns store, good job!) Lets get back on topic now. [QUOTE=Coyoteze;53132410] :huh: [/QUOTE] I think you need to take a breath. Guns are meant to kill. Most use them to kill animals or paper targets. People sometimes use them to kill people in justified scenarios but also often in unjustified scenarios. A gun is inherently unevil and selling guns for hunting and target shooting at a supermarket is inherently unevil. Some guns have been deemed by the government to be dangerous enough to be hard to access like fully automatic rifles or destructive devices. This policy makes sense as these weapons are historically not useful for civilian means unless you're one of the Revolution types. Yet, they are still legally accessible to people who jump through hoops. Your argument seems to be that [I]all[/I] guns should be restricted in this regard and I simply disagree as lawful gun ownership does serve a purpose and is a fun and harmless activity. As long as there are a saturation of guns in the US there will be people who use them as crime, so you either have to go the extremist route and destroy every gun you see which will still undoubtedly leave guns behind, or I think we should have common sense laws in place like mandatory gun safes for rifles the proper mental health and adolescence care that we need (my opinion on this is not strictly because of guns, either) and heaps of other social-things that make society better off in general. Stuff we'll never get because of the political cluster fuck were in.

Weapon used was supposedly an AR-15.

[QUOTE=butre;53132154]ok yeah so this guy had explosives and y'all think firearms legislation would have done anything? explosives are generally illegal for anyone without a specific sot or a $200 tax stamp for each device. there isn't a mass proliferation of bombs in this country. no legislation could've prevented anything about this, because there is already relevant legislation and it didn't stop shit[/QUOTE] You're confusing destructive devices and explosive, they are each treated differently. No one needs a license to make explosives for self use. You do need a license if you're in the business of commercial production, and you also need licensing to transport it. That is why things such as tannerite are legal: it's not an explosive until mixed and is illegal as hell to drive around with once mixed.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53132406]this is still an offshoot from the topic of having stricter gun-laws[/QUOTE] Do you have any specific suggestions?

[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;53132412]- actual background checks linked to prior criminal record, mental health history, and other important things (CPS) - required gun safe for either all guns or a vital part of all guns (like the barrel on handguns, forend on O/U shotguns, bolt on an AR, etc) or an ACTUAL gun lock (your $7.99 ruger plastic padlock doesn't count) - actual age limits that are followed (in norway the age limit is 18 for long arms, but 16 if parents consent on the application form) - registration on new purchases of firearms can you dispute a single one? nope. you can't.[/QUOTE] we do have actual background checks, the only thing wrong with the nics is the people reporting to it "HOLD ON BAD GUY" *spends 2 minutes unlocking safe* *spends 3 minutes trying every key to figure out which one goes with the gun I chose* *has to load a magazine before loading the gun* *has been dead for 7 minutes* our age limits are stricter than yours I'm not even gonna get into registration thats a fucking shitshow. every time I do yall just call me a paranoid loony even after I cite examples of why its useless at best and very easily damaging

[QUOTE=Raidyr;53132432]Do you have any specific suggestions?[/QUOTE] Honestly for the moment I'd at least settle for no longer having the backlash against the very idea of gun control

At least 12 dead: [media]https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/963915764129566720[/media] Signing off for the night now.

[QUOTE=Morgen;53132440]At least 12 dead: [media]https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/963915764129566720[/media][/QUOTE] Great, so it's reached mass shooting for sure

For those of you that say "mentally ill people should be banned from guns easy peasy", what kind of mental illness are we talking about? Mildly autistic? People who want to change their genders? Homosexuals? Having PTSD from a dog attack or something? Hallucinations? Imaginary friend from back in elementary school? Being very religious? Jacking off to weird porn? There's a lot of "mental issues" around and a blanket ban on anyone that isn't happy, straight, and outgoing is pretty fucking dumb

fix mental healthcare to 1st world levels like europe/scandinavia, fix the shitty public school system, and you reduce shootings in the long run but both parties don't give a fuck about either, republicans will defend guns and ignore mental healthcare because they're republicans that only care about putting trillions into the military, and democrats will try to restrict guns with absolutely retarded feelgood+political point restrictions that don't work at all, and the average gun hobby joe suffers and shootings continue to happen

[QUOTE=RenegadeCop;53132358]Of course they know, but cash is king. Even Homeland Security's stance is that media creates more violence by making it famous.[/QUOTE] I agree. Nobody would do this if the media didn't go "holy shit look at this guy what did the thing" every single time. Which is exactly the kind of power that a resentful sociopath wants.

[QUOTE=Orkel;53132454][B]fix mental healthcare to 1st world levels like europe/scandinavia, fix the shitty public school system, and you reduce shootings in the long run[/B] but both parties don't give a fuck about either, republicans will defend guns and ignore mental healthcare because they're republicans that only care about putting trillions into the military, and democrats will try to restrict guns with absolutely retarded feelgood+political point restrictions that don't work at all, and the average gun hobby joe suffers and shootings continue to happen[/QUOTE] and maybe some gun laws as stated above for example

[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;53132443]no, your background checks are a joke. you need to build a proper, working system for it. keep a loaded g19 in your bedstand drawer, i don't care. but then don't whine when your 6 y/o kid pulls it out and shoots your neighbor through the drywall, or some paranoid schizophrenic teenager takes your AR15 to shoot up a school. your age limits are a joke, straw purchases are done all day everyday everywhere and you know it. why you are so afraid of registration is beyond me. if you beat your wife to shit and the police run a check saying "hey, this guy has a load of guns", then is that a problem? american gun owners literally are incapable of understanding this is a problem that needs to be fixed. going "uh we need big mental healtherers and morer mental institutioners" is just a joke by now.[/QUOTE] the system itself works, the people running it don't. I don't have a 6 year old kid or a paranoid schizophrenic teenager in my house. if a paranoid schizo teenager comes into my house to steal my ar15 you can bet he's getting a 230 grain surprise the instant he touches it. if I'm not in a position to tend to my guns I keep crucial parts locked away, because the last thing I want is some jackass to kill someone with my gun. if you can give me a legitimate answer to the straw purchase problem I'm listening. the police already treat every suspect as if they're armed and potentially dangerous so that's a complete non-issue.

[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;53132473]that's an issue in itself lmao. my point is that some wife battering hillbilly, some guy dealing, or a moron posting ISIL videos online should have his guns taken away if the cops take note they're doing something not compatible with owning guns and notice they have guns.[/QUOTE] they already do that though, except to guys posting isil videos because free speech isn't illegal here

[QUOTE=butre;53132468]the system itself works, the people running it don't. I don't have a 6 year old kid or a paranoid schizophrenic teenager in my house. [B]if a paranoid schizo teenager comes into my house to steal my ar15 you can bet he's getting a 230 grain surprise the instant he touches it[/B]. if I'm not in a position to tend to my guns I keep crucial parts locked away, because the last thing I want is some jackass to kill someone with my gun. if you can give me a legitimate answer to the straw purchase problem I'm listening. the police already treat every suspect as if they're armed and potentially dangerous so that's a complete non-issue.[/QUOTE] Ignoring the ready to kill attitude you have, how can a gun be safe from kids if it's so easily accessible for self defense?

it's also important to note that public schools don't give two shits about students. Get bullied? Take it or be punished. Approach an adult with concerns about mental health? Prepare to be forcefully ignored or even punished. Also, be prepared to be put under more stress than most universities put you through. Most teachers don't care, and the ones that do don't have the resources to be able to do anything. They're overworked and overpaid. Inner city public schools are hotbeds of clique violence. American public schools are social pressure cookers and some people just snap under the pressure. Schools need to stop literally manufacturing their own shootings. Because that's what they're doing.

[QUOTE=butre;53132433]"HOLD ON BAD GUY" *spends 2 minutes unlocking safe* *spends 3 minutes trying every key to figure out which one goes with the gun I chose* *has to load a magazine before loading the gun* *has been dead for 7 minutes*[/QUOTE] i've heard this point before and to me it just seems like a matter of poor preparation. if you drill with your firearm, why would you not practice being able to open your safe at above-paraplegic speeds?

[QUOTE=PrusseLusken;53132443]no, your background checks are a joke. you need to build a proper, working system for it. keep a loaded g19 in your bedstand drawer, i don't care. but then don't whine when your 6 y/o kid pulls it out and shoots your neighbor through the drywall, or some paranoid schizophrenic teenager takes your AR15 to shoot up a school. your age limits are a joke, straw purchases are done all day everyday everywhere and you know it. why you are so afraid of registration is beyond me. if you beat your wife to shit and the police run a check saying "hey, this guy has a load of guns", then is that a problem? american gun owners literally are incapable of understanding this is a problem that needs to be fixed. going "uh we need big mental healtherers and morer mental institutioners" is just a joke by now.[/QUOTE] So we just gonna be making sweeping generalizations about the millions of gun owners in America now, huh. There are plenty of gun owners out there that believe we need stricter gun laws, and I'm one of them. But simply saying something and it being enacted are two different things. Our country is a fucking mess right now when it comes to gun laws, we can barely pass any bills without both parties ripping each other apart. What can we do when our own government won't get its shit together? I don't enjoy reading about mass shootings or our depression/suicide problems. Nobody likes the way things are going, nobody wants this shit to be a normality, but what can we as just normal people do? I already lock my guns up and keep them away from other people, I'm responsible with my guns, and plenty others are too. All it takes is a kid with mental health problems and an irresponsible parent/guardian and boom, you have the perfect circumstances for a possible shooting. I can't stop that, but holy hell I wish my government could [QUOTE=AtomicSans;53132490]it's also important to note that public schools don't give two shits about students. Get bullied? Take it or be punished. Approach an adult with concerns about mental health? Prepare to be forcefully ignored or even punished. Also, be prepared to be put under more stress than most universities put you through. Most teachers don't care, and the ones that do don't have the resources to be able to do anything. They're overworked and overpaid. Inner city public schools are hotbeds of clique violence. American public schools are social pressure cookers and some people just snap under the pressure. Schools need to stop literally manufacturing their own shootings. Because that's what they're doing.[/QUOTE] This as well, our society is literally creating perfect storms when it comes to this shit

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53132485]Ignoring the ready to kill attitude you have, how can a gun be safe from kids if it's so easily accessible for self defense?[/QUOTE] because as he mentioned he doesn't have kids running around his house?

Drove past the police escort with the shooter on my way home. Crazy shit. I honestly don't even know what to say about this, it's all so fucked up

I don't believe in restricting firearms based on type because it's been shown that that doesn't stop people from killing when they want. I do believe that every firearm in America should be registered, and licenses should be more restrictive. The concept of an unregistered weapon is absurd. I'm certainly a future gun owner, by the way. I have interest in collecting them.

[QUOTE=butre;53132433] "HOLD ON BAD GUY" *spends 2 minutes unlocking safe* *spends 3 minutes trying every key to figure [/QUOTE] This has always felt like a really strawman argument to me. I don't think the idea is to not have an emergency firearm, but to - in general - keep your firearms in a place where they aren't going to be [B](a)[/B] messed with by people who don't know any better (ie children), [B](b)[/B] utilized against you in a home invasion, or [B](c)[/B] easily stolen and used to contribute to criminal activity. It's your responsibility as a gun owner to ensure nothing like that happens.

[QUOTE=laserpanda;53132500]because as he mentioned he doesn't have kids running around his house?[/QUOTE] Then in situations where people do have kids??????? come on [editline]15th February 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=Lime-alicious;53132508]This has always felt like a really strawman argument to me. I don't think the idea is to not have an emergency firearm, but to - in general - keep your firearms in a place where they aren't going to be [B](a)[/B] messed with by people who don't know any better (ie children), [B](b)[/B] utilized against you in a home invasion, or [B](c)[/B] easily stolen and used to contribute to criminal activity. It's your responsibility as a gun owner to ensure nothing like that happens.[/QUOTE] But how? how can it be a defense weapon and still locked up safely?

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53132485]Ignoring the ready to kill attitude you have, how can a gun be safe from kids if it's so easily accessible for self defense?[/QUOTE] Maybe if we made gun safes mandatory it would boost business in the inconspicuous gun safe furniture market! Bed stand? Nope, top drawer is a quick open, locked gun safe. Bed frame? Nope, shotgun rack. Coffee table? Nope, riffle rack. I've also seen some bio-metric locked pistol safes that attach to the side of the bed if you feel like you gotta blast the intruders without getting your robe on. If we made it mandatory, there isn't an excuse.

[QUOTE=Orkel;53132454]fix mental healthcare to 1st world levels like europe/scandinavia, fix the shitty public school system, and you reduce shootings in the long run but both parties don't give a fuck about either, republicans will defend guns and ignore mental healthcare because they're republicans that only care about putting trillions into the military, and democrats will try to restrict guns with absolutely retarded feelgood+political point restrictions that don't work at all, and the average gun hobby joe suffers and shootings continue to happen[/QUOTE] But the Democrats do care and fight for better healthcare and public schooling.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53132509]Then in situations where people do have kids??????? come on[/QUOTE] ...and in those situations you absolutely should have your guns in a secure location, but that's not the case with him. He even mentioned that he does lock his guns up when he's not at home.

[QUOTE=SIRIUS;53132509] But how? how can it be a defense weapon and still locked up safely?[/QUOTE] Again, I don't think anybody is saying not to have an emergency firearm.

[QUOTE=Lime-alicious;53132521]Again, I don't think anybody is saying not to have an emergency firearm.[/QUOTE] what?? [editline]15th February 2018[/editline] [QUOTE=laserpanda;53132518]...and in those situations you absolutely should have your guns in a secure location, but that's not the case with him. He even mentioned that he does lock his guns up when he's not at home.[/QUOTE] then how could it be ready for defense??