Price gouging during Hurricane Harvey: Up to $99 for a case of water, Texas AG says - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=ForgottenKane;52624629]It's more about the PR.[/QUOTE] PR is a side effect. I don't like this idea that any and all public works by high profile people/businesses is PR. You're watering down their efforts to make them seems self motivated and greedy. It gets tiresome. Maybe it's also just, you know, a huge privately owned Texas based brand helping the community that makes it exist? Do you honestly thing HEB maintains a [url=https://www.heb.com/static-page/Disaster-Relief?exp=instore]Disaster Relief HQ and aid convoy[/url], plus a plethora of other community service efforts because they wan't more customers to come in and buy their shit? Or that Gallery Furniture lets 300 evacuees into their store and use the merchandise to sleep on because they wanna sell a few more mattresses? People bitch when companies are bad, but discard good, selfless, humanitarianism by wealthy individuals as promoting your own brand. God forbid it's just someone with massive resources being a good person. Did Houston Astros owner Jim Crane donate $4,000,000 because he wants to sell more Astros tickets, too? People like to help people. Some people have resources to do it well.

People are pricegouging after all of this, just to take advantage of people who've been hit by the hurricane? Absolute slimeball scumbags, I hope those fines start to add up.

It's not price gouging, it's the market meeting the demand. Look at it this way, a very high price tag means the water gets to people who truly need that water.

[QUOTE=Judas;52624327]have you considered that this may not be true, and instead you've only ever lived under a system that makes people shit to each other?[/QUOTE] Stop projecting kiddo, I too live in america and wouldn't do such a thing.

[QUOTE=duno;52624825]It's not price gouging, it's the market meeting the demand. Look at it this way, a very high price tag means the water gets to people who truly need that water.[/QUOTE] This isn't true? A high price tag means people that need it who can't afford it don't get it, and people who can afford it are essentially robbed

[QUOTE=duno;52624825]It's not price gouging, it's the market meeting the demand. Look at it this way, a very high price tag means the water gets to people who truly need that water.[/QUOTE]I hope youre trying to imply that it prevents people from hoarding the water but the wording here implies that only the rich should get water and the poor should just die I guess

[QUOTE=Tetracycline;52624127]The profit motive isn't quite as good as the communal harmony motive[/QUOTE] you mean the naiive feel-good motive that's a sweet idea, but doesn't actually work on a scale larger than a small town?

I don't get it. Do stores in USA increase the prices to infinity once they start running out of stock when there's no crisis? If they want to make sure that no one person buys all the water, can't they deny their purchase? Ask for an ID and limit how much stuff can one person get during a time of crisis? Cause higher prices only mean that people with more disposable income can take everything, and poorer classes need to just die or spend their life savings cause the store decided to have the moral high ground.

Hooray for the free market! The reason most of us view this price increase as unjust is because of an effect called loss aversion. There was a default status quo price. The company gouged it, we saw the sharp increase as something really, really bad. Basic economics say that the company should have been swimming in profits in time of a sharp demand increase, but instead we collectively brought it down. If you are interested in economics and capitalism that include people in them too I suggest you read up on behavioral economics.

[QUOTE=duno;52624825]It's not price gouging, it's the market meeting the demand. Look at it this way, a very high price tag means the water gets to people who truly need that water.[/QUOTE] now THIS is your brain on capitalism

[QUOTE=DrDevil;52624122]This is exactly what capitalism does. Instead of thinking how to help each other in a crisis, people would rather shaft each other to make a profit.[/QUOTE] am I on reddit? It has nothing to do with capitalism, just people being selfish greedy assholes.

[QUOTE=Judas;52624327]have you considered that this may not be true, and instead you've only ever lived under a system that makes people shit to each other?[/QUOTE] No, because I've extensively read about human history and can confidently tell you that humans are terrible to each other no matter what economic system they fall under.

Someone blames it on capitalism, and like clockwork, people rush to defend it.

[QUOTE=Sasupoika;52625336]Someone blames it on capitalism, and like clockwork, people rush to defend it.[/QUOTE] Capitalism sucks but you cant blame all the problems of the world on capitalism. Price gouging is just people being shitty people. If supplies were rationed, then people would get their supplies then go sell them for a profit. Price gouging is an inevitability of any disaster and theres no way to avoid it except to punish them after the fact. The bottom line is that theres a minority of humanity that will try to profit off of peoples woes, capitalism has nothing to do with it.

[QUOTE=ashxu;52625139]am I on reddit? It has nothing to do with capitalism, just people being selfish greedy assholes.[/QUOTE] But that has everything to do with unregulated capitalism. Why do you think the US has such shit internet service, or pays more for healthcare than other countries and it's still shit (and can give you lifelong dept), and so on?

[QUOTE=duno;52624825]It's not price gouging, it's the market meeting the demand. Look at it this way, a very high price tag means the water gets to people who truly need that water.[/QUOTE] I sincerely hope you're joking. [QUOTE=gokiyono;52625348]But that has everything to do with unregulated capitalism. Why do you think the US has such shit internet service, or pays more for healthcare than other countries and it's still shit (and can give you lifelong dept), and so on?[/QUOTE] Except in this situation, it is regulated. These businesses were fined for their actions.

Where you see price gouging I see opportunity. With the market price ceiling of water being $100, I could go to oklahoma get a couple jugs filled and sell bottles for $10 and make much more sales while being more competitive in a capitalist environment. Actually what's stopping my neighbor Joe Billy Bob from doing the same thing for $9 dollars a bottle or $8 etc. These people selling water for $100 dollars aren't capitalists, they're chumps who won't sell a pint because they have no concept of a competitive market.

[QUOTE=gokiyono;52625348]But that has everything to do with unregulated capitalism. Why do you think the US has such shit internet service, or pays more for healthcare than other countries and it's still shit (and can give you lifelong dept), and so on?[/QUOTE] The things you mentioned are issues born of capitalism, except price gouging. Do you think a non-capitalist government body would be able to stop price gouging when an entire city is under 15ft of of water? Sending in anti-price-gouging-police should be the least of any governments concern during a disaster like this. The only thing they can do is what they're doing now; punishing them after the disaster subsides.

[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;52625405]How about you just don't use a disaster like this as a way to pad your pockets with money and instead help people out? I will [I]never[/I] understand people who try to squeeze every last dollar out of everybody, specially during a horrible disaster. That's just fucking immoral[/QUOTE] Exactly. The idea behind capitalism is helping others to help yourself. When you put more emphasis on yourself than others that's when competitors show up. Why do you think so many companies care about their image? Because they don't want to Get IBM'd by their industries up and coming Apple.

[QUOTE=Judas;52624143]this is literally the direct fault of capitalism entire warehouses of these products are easily accessable, but stores overcharge in a crisis because capitalism strips people of any basic human decency in exchange for profit$$[/QUOTE] and if it were the ancient times, the people (lords) owning those warehouses would be giving out stuff in return for peasants promising to become their slaves capitalism is unique to the past few centuries. price-gouging (or essentially taking advantage of people) has been around a lot longer

[QUOTE=Shirt.;52625437]Exactly. The idea behind capitalism is helping others to help yourself. When you put more emphasis on yourself than others that's when competitors show up. Why do you think so many companies care about their image? Because they don't want to Get IBM'd by their industries up and coming Apple.[/QUOTE] If you can get away with selling water for $100 it makes (economic) sense to do it. When competition does show up then you can think about lowering your prices. Also some dude making a quick buck on overpriced water doesn't need to maintain a long term image.

I guess the people blaming capitalism for this have never read about, let alone experienced what goes on during crisis rationing in a socialist state. You're going to get people exploiting assumed positions of power regardless of the economic model, whether it's a capitalist charging $100 for cases of water or a socialist demanding barter for the food in his truck. People are shitty, stop trying to pin the shittiness of human nature on the economic model.

[QUOTE=catbarf;52625571]I guess the people blaming capitalism for this have never read about, let alone experienced what goes on during crisis rationing in a socialist state. It's not capitalism is some exception to a rule that everyone bands together to adequately distribute precious resources in a show of solidarity. You're going to get people exploiting assumed positions of power regardless of the economic model.[/QUOTE] I think the point is that the dickhead capacity of Capitalism in the west could be considerably lower, especially in the US. Capitalism sucks, but it could suck less.

[QUOTE=Shirt.;52625364]Where you see price gouging I see opportunity. With the market price ceiling of water being $100, I could go to oklahoma get a couple jugs filled and sell bottles for $10 and make much more sales while being more competitive in a capitalist environment. Actually what's stopping my neighbor Joe Billy Bob from doing the same thing for $9 dollars a bottle or $8 etc. These people selling water for $100 dollars aren't capitalists, they're chumps who won't sell a pint because they have no concept of a competitive market.[/QUOTE] You think you're smart, but why would you drive to Oklahoma to get water and bring it down to this area which is nearly 400 miles away? Doesn't seem cost effective. Specially when you can likely drive to another town near the effected area and get water at regular price. Or you know, don't be a predatory scum and try rip people off.

[QUOTE=Crumpet;52625589]I think the point is that the dickhead capacity of Capitalism in the west could be considerably lower, especially in the US. Capitalism sucks, but it could suck less.[/QUOTE] As its been previously stated multiple times, it doesn't matter what economic model people live under. Theres no way to enforce a law to prevent people from being shitty during a disaster. You can only do exactly what we're doing right now, which is to punish abusers once the disaster is over. If currency didnt exist in a society, then people would ask for material items like jewellery in exchange for goods. If a society has nothing with material value or currency, then they would trade for immaterial things. Theres no way to stop people from being fuck buckets unless we start an equalibrium type dystopia.

[QUOTE=Cyke Lon bee;52625607]As its been previously stated multiple times, it doesn't matter what economic model people live under. Theres no way to enforce a law to prevent people from being shitty during a disaster. You can only do exactly what we're doing right now, which is to punish abusers once the disaster is over. If currency didnt exist in a society, then people would ask for material items like jewellery in exchange for goods. If a society has nothing with material value or currency, then they would trade for immaterial things. Theres no way to stop people from being fuck buckets unless we start an equalibrium type dystopia.[/QUOTE] I was talking generally. After seeing people bring up your healthcare and the likes in this thread it's clear what people are angry with. An amount of government economic regulation and intervention goes a long way in stopping people being fuckbuckets. It's not 'pure free market hellhole' vs 'socialist dystopia'.

[QUOTE=MR-X;52625601]You think you're smart, but why would you drive to Oklahoma to get water and bring it down to this area which is nearly 400 miles away? Doesn't seem cost effective. Specially when you can likely drive to another town near the effected area and get water at regular price. Or you know, don't be a predatory scum and try rip people off.[/QUOTE] 400 miles is 1 tank of gas or around $40-$70 depending on were you live and your method of transportation. Of course water is heavy so for the sake of convenience lets double that. contract a guy in southern Oklahoma so you can use his hose (of course with a filter) to fill up 10 5 gallon jugs. Now lets say he gets 10% of all profits which if I were to sell a single jug at 5$ per bottle thats 40 bottles sold or 200$, enough to break even. Now think of the population of the effected area immediately after the storm dies down, they're panicked and don't know how long it will take for government services to arrive but your there, now, on the spot with water and creature comforts like Rolo's and Coca-Cola. You would sell out before the day is done. Ripping people off is subjective. Is it ripping people off when your there to provide relief at reasonable price before the state sponsored relief show up? is it ripping someone off when they gladly pay for it? If someone thinks that your price is relevant to the situation at hand then they will pay.

[QUOTE=Crumpet;52625651]An amount of government economic regulation and intervention goes a long way in stopping people being fuckbuckets.[/QUOTE] Like forbidding price gouging and enforcing steep penalties as punishment? What exactly would you suggest here? I mean if this was 'gougers charging $100 for water, gov't says it's A-OK' then you might have a point, but here this is an example of people being shitty and exploitative [I]in spite of[/I] clear regulation, which is just human nature. If it were a warehouse manager in a socialist country demanding jewelry in exchange for the needed supplies in his warehouse, it would be equally stupid to blame that on socialism. It's happening in defiance of the law, not because of it.

Everyone bitching about "late stage capitalism" conveniently ignores the tremendous outpouring of support from businesses around the nation which are happily operating at a loss because they can afford to do so in order to help out. You will find people exploiting each other this way in any disaster scenario in any economic model. If you think communist states were free of this shit you're either naive or deliberately ignorant. Some people suck. Some are awesome.

[QUOTE=Crumpet;52625651]I was talking generally. After seeing people bring up your healthcare and the likes in this thread it's clear what people are angry with. An amount of government economic regulation and intervention goes a long way in stopping people being fuckbuckets. It's not 'pure free market hellhole' vs 'socialist dystopia'.[/QUOTE] Price gouging is already regulated in Texas. You can't effectively enforce laws in general, let alone price gouging laws, when a city is under 12ft of water. Theres bigger concerns for law enforcement than stopping price gouging.