It looks like cryptocurrency mining is driving up Nvidia graphics card prices too - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=just-a-boy;52383820]You have no idea what you're talking about. Please put into words why you think investing in crypto[I]technology[/I] (of which the financial aspect is an intrinsic part of, as I mentioned) is a bad idea. The biggest currently existing solutions that are not simply stores of value are currently in the early stages of producing practical use data, not just offering use cases. Ethereum's smart contracts are subject to this the most. One ETH subtoken project I'm vested in that runs on these smart contracts is a closed-end crypto investment fund, TaaS (Token-as-a-Service, a unique concept so far, but not entirely dissimilar from ICOnomi, another conceptually similar fund), which is nearing it's first quarterly payout date. Since it's only performing it's first quarter, I'm personally not expecting any payouts yet (crypto investments take time to mature and return profits), but considering the fact that the fund has successfully invested substantial sums into other assets, not to mention that the token's price itself has tripled this quarter, it's not out of the question that investors do receive a dividend payout this quarter. But the underlying point is this: once this fund DOES pay those dividends, and all us token holders receive them successfully, it will have served a much grander purpose - it proves blockchain solutions work, it proves these Ethereum smart contracts successfully fulfill their purpose. It proves this technology has passed the line from theoretical models into practical models. I am by far not informed or tech-literate enough to explain these things to you, so I urge you to at least read up on the whitepapers, join slack groups, ask questions and do some research of your own. Don't do yourself the disservice of staying ignorant.[/QUOTE] Nothing in my post, nor the post I was replying to, even mentioned cryptotechnology. But I'll oblige. Cryptotech investments are unwise and have a rocky history. [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1518604"]I discussed[/URL] how the DAO's vulnerabilities were unrecoverable back when it was crowdfunded. Surprise - a month later, someone found an exploit and crashed it. Ethereum's founders had to do a hard fork of their entire currency to "remedy" this problem. Who knew that my prediction would come true down to the letter? I guess I have no idea what I'm talking about, though, despite not only making that prediction, but also studying and working in finance and law for (so far) 7 years. This alone undermines the decentralization of cryptocurrency, as well. If you're investing in a currency to avoid government interference (I mean, ignoring the fact that investing in cryptocurrency is extremely risky) then the Ethereum fork proved the exact opposite. And even worse - it wasn't done by government actors. It was done just by the founders of the currency, who have no fiduciary duty to any currency holder.

[QUOTE=Kel|oggs;52383941]Glad I got my 1070 in December, looks like there still about 600-630 for the edition I got. I paid 570 for mine so not a huge price increase. I was hoping the price would drop so I could SLI.[/QUOTE] There was a 1070 Mini for $300 I was eyeing (since I don't really do much overclocking and stock performance is the same) or a nice full sized pre-OC'd one for $350 that is now $450 and $550 respectively >:(

[QUOTE=Ogopogo;52382785]Towards the fall (it is predicted) cards with 4GB of memory and less will be unable to load a file required to operate[/QUOTE] Still a fair way off, my GPU is only at 2.8 GB with regular desktop rendering going on.

[QUOTE=Snowmew;52384004]Nothing in my post, nor the post I was replying to, even mentioned cryptotechnology. But I'll oblige. Cryptotech investments are unwise and have a rocky history. [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1518604"]I discussed[/URL] how the DAO's vulnerabilities were unrecoverable back when it was crowdfunded. Surprise - a month later, someone found an exploit and crashed it. Ethereum's founders had to do a hard fork of their entire currency to "remedy" this problem. Who knew that my prediction would come true down to the letter? I guess I have no idea what I'm talking about, though, despite not only making that prediction, but also studying and working in finance and law for (so far) 7 years. This alone undermines the decentralization of cryptocurrency, as well. If you're investing in a currency to avoid government interference (I mean, ignoring the fact that investing in cryptocurrency is extremely risky) then the Ethereum fork proved the exact opposite. And even worse - it wasn't done by government actors. It was done just by the founders of the currency, who have no fiduciary duty to any currency holder.[/QUOTE] No no you don't understand, you're just jealous of our anarcho-libertarian utopian currency. Maybe when you wake up and understand that my glorified black market money is the future then you'll understand why I took out a second mortgage to build bitcoin mining rigs.

What can you even buy with crypto currencies other than your hacked computer's data or a subway sandwich? It's like people saying they have 4,000 in CSGO knife skins. What can you do with that money other than somehow trade it to people who are willing to give you cash? The problem with things on the internet worth money is that it's much harder to convert that digital wealth into actual cash money put it in my hand. How do you convert bitcoin/etherium/ect into usable currency?

I can't wait for crypto currencies to crash hard which results in a flood of used GPUs being liquidated

I bought my GTX 1080 a couple weeks ago for $581 (mind Czech Republic's 21% VAT) and I was pretty shocked that very same card is now $648 in the same store. I really feel like it's been a good deal.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;52385365] How do you convert bitcoin/etherium/ect into usable currency?[/QUOTE] Use any of the hundreds of exchange sites

Huh, just picked up a 1080 for $532 a couple days ago

[QUOTE=J!NX;52380818]and that's literally why just straight up mining bitcoins themselves is a joke you'll never break even mining them directly unless you started super early on, or are trading bitcoins. They're so massively expensive that mining them even with the best GPU/CPU is impossible. and yet there are people out there that will spend fuckknows how much money on mining computers that will ultimately waste them money[/QUOTE] Not to mention the influx of ASICs that out-perform some, if not all, GPU miners in initial costs, power efficiency, and mining efficiency. Spending tons of money on GPUs mining at this point seems a fool's errand.

[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;52385365]What can you even buy with crypto currencies other than your hacked computer's data or a subway sandwich? It's like people saying they have 4,000 in CSGO knife skins. What can you do with that money other than somehow trade it to people who are willing to give you cash? The problem with things on the internet worth money is that it's much harder to convert that digital wealth into actual cash money put it in my hand. How do you convert bitcoin/etherium/ect into usable currency?[/QUOTE] I mean if I had, lets say, hypothetically bought, idk, 100$ in bitcoins when it started, and it turned into whatever that would turn into, I'd probably trade it in and buy a car and/or more education Anything you can buy with money you can buy with bitcoins, so long as you trade it in anyways

if you bought $100 of bitcoin when it first started you could afford a lot more than a car and education, youd be so fucking rich you wouldnt know what do with all the money you had

[QUOTE=waylander;52387036]if you bought $100 of bitcoin when it first started you could afford a lot more than a car and education, youd be so fucking rich you wouldnt know what do with all the money you had[/QUOTE] Hard part would be getting it out into real currency, plus you'd have to deal with the taxes. Not all countries make Bitcoin easy.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;52383970][t]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/211958101706932224/326907658579738635/unknown.png[/t] Here's what its like in canada land[/QUOTE] I'm so fucking glad I adopted early.

Wow, I can't believe impulse buying a 1080ti is a decision I don't regret.

Is this why graphics card prices are so absurd? I'm stuck on a 670GTX because I just cannot afford a new card.

Well I look forward to eventually being able to afford upgrades around the time Trump Jr. becomes Lord Emperor of the North American Union.

I just bought two gtx 1070's brand new for $840 total because Bestbuy is slow as shit to the gate on this one. Protip: Bestbuy has the cheapest 1070's and shit right now. If anyone needs a 1070, I was going to sli them when I got my water blocks in but I mean, until then I have 1 in my system and 1 new in box and I'd be more than willing to part with it.

[QUOTE=Endzeit7;52383427]I wish crypto currencies never existed[/QUOTE] It probably doesn't really matter in the big picture, but it's sort of just a way to "waste" power for magical internet points. I wish the largest cryptocurrencies were connected to stuff like Folding @ Home or something similar, so that it would be less of a waste, although I'm just not sure how implementing it would work.

[QUOTE=joshuadim;52383970][t]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/211958101706932224/326907658579738635/unknown.png[/t] Here's what its like in canada land[/QUOTE] I paid ~$960 at release for a reference card. So about a $100 more for a non-reference card, I guess it's ok.

[QUOTE=Kabus Iblis;52385416]I can't wait for crypto currencies to crash hard which results in a flood of used GPUs being liquidated[/QUOTE] the problem with that is the same thing happened with the HD Radeon 7XXX series cards after Bitcoin's first big crash. you could buy them used for real cheap after that but the lifespan of them was shortened badly and many had issues in gaming already from being under high load 24/7/365. not sure if these cards would have the same issues though.

Man, I am glad I decided to buy my 1070 last month for ~$320.

Thinking about it, my only complaint is that this all seems like a waste of power (which is contributing to other problems globally) for something that only is useful if more power is wasted (since everything is verified by these mining machines, and thus require massive amounts of power). From this point of view, cryptocurrencies is just normal human nature I guess: Profit by exploit.

[QUOTE=Snowmew;52382977]Nothing like a little survivorship bias to round out discussion on why "investing" in cryptocurrencies is a bad idea.[/QUOTE] Survivorship bias? Do explain in more detail? A shit-ton of people made money on riding the ETH wave. Even today, I'm in a discord group full of people making some money by shifting money arlund cryptocurrencies.

Jesus look on Amazon and Newegg almost all of the 1070s are out of stock

[QUOTE=nagachief;52388206]Thinking about it, my only complaint is that this all seems like a waste of power (which is contributing to other problems globally) for something that only is useful if more power is wasted (since everything is verified by these mining machines, and thus require massive amounts of power). From this point of view, cryptocurrencies is just normal human nature I guess: Profit by exploit.[/QUOTE] A few currencies are trying to use different systems of verifying transactions while allowing mining, I know at least one works by giving you more coins depending on available space on your hard drives (you'd need many terabytes for this to be really worth doing).

[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;52393935]Survivorship bias? Do explain in more detail? A shit-ton of people made money on riding the ETH wave. Even today, I'm in a discord group full of people making some money by shifting money arlund cryptocurrencies.[/QUOTE] For all the people making money day trading crypto, there are just as many people losing money. You only hear about the ones who make money because nobody wants to admit they lost money.

[QUOTE=Snowmew;52394649]For all the people making money day trading crypto, there are just as many people losing money. You only hear about the ones who make money because nobody wants to admit they lost money.[/QUOTE] It should also be pointed out that, as I understand it, the loss is 'delayed'. When someone buys this stuff, they have to pay immediately but won't know whether they ('really', net) lost any until they (have to) sell it, which is potentially very far into the future. [editline]24th June 2017[/editline] I [I]think[/I] the idea is that the acquired coins will become a 'resource' that better stabilises once the system is in widespread use as payment method and end users will buy them to use them (which would actually create value), but considering the transactions (as far as I've read) already have a higher cost than what a bank takes due to the energy requirements involved, I really don't see it as indefinitely viable in that way. The network's mining power (and with that transaction cost) could be reduced due to lessened rentability of course, but then it becomes easier to attack again. I suspect it might be very possible to create a distributed money replacement system, but I expect that to be built more like old-fashioned certificates of debt with some digital upgrades. In fact, we've pretty much had that here in Germany [I]since 1996[/I]. The Geldkarte is a stored-value offline payment system that's enabled on almost every debit card here. (I haven't actually seen anyone use the things, though :v:) A system with owner-accesible secret storage and without a bank's backing would have to behave a little differently unfortunately (in theory allowing you to overdraft your card indefinitely, but otherwise built of presumably very similar tech), but that's not too different from the current system that lets you sign a crazy amount of contracts you can't possibly pay for.

[QUOTE=Snowmew;52394649]For all the people making money day trading crypto, there are just as many people losing money. You only hear about the ones who make money because nobody wants to admit they lost money.[/QUOTE] If I buy Eth right now, someone is making money from selling their Eth, but when I sell it for 10x that amount in a couple years, I'll be making a net profit vs my initial buyin. The person who buys it from me could do the same. Trading and selling does not have to have a winner and loser.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;52394829]If I buy Eth right now, someone is making money from selling their Eth, but when I sell it for 10x that amount in a couple years, I'll be making a net profit vs my initial buyin. The person who buys it from me could do the same. Trading and selling does not have to have a winner and loser.[/QUOTE] That's not quite true. The equation is balanced [I]by definition[/I]. It's just that (assuming monotonously increasing Eth worth), the people who lose are those forced or unable to sell. What you say would be true in an [I]ideal[/I] world, but there are various real-life factors that could lead to one of these outcomes. The assumption of an indefinite increase in value is just an assumption in the first place though, since there's no guarantee that interest in the currency will remain stable (e.g. if it doesn't become a viable day-to-day good, or for whatever reason ceases to be one). [editline]24th June 2017[/editline] I think what's important to realise is that currencies [I]don't inherently create net value[/I]. Of course their implementation brings various advantages to economies due to much more efficient trade, but that's not an inherent property of the currency itself as much as a side effect of how it can be used. Even with stuff like transaction float and the like ([editline]edit[/editline] 'Fiat currency' was the word I was looking for.), what happens is just that value that would otherwise be lost is 'rescued' from certain inefficiencies that appear in an economy. I personally don't have a problem with this, but there's a certain amount of risk attached that states need to handle appropriately to make it both safely and exclusively usable for average consumers. For the record, I don't have a problem with cryptocurrencies. They're an interesting idea (that I personally don't intend to partake in). What I mind is that many of their proponents constantly lie by omission regarding what underpins their value. I assume many do this consciously since it directly benefits them if someone uses the currency badly, but please don't see that as allegation against anyone in particular.