[India] <60 children in hospital dead due to unpaid oxygen bills. - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=GrizzlyBear;52570098]What the fuck? A hospital can't pay its bills so you kill dozens of small children in response? That can't be fucking legal.[/QUOTE] To be fair to the O2 company, they expanded the limit of the unpaid bill before cutoff three times, and gave the hospital 6 months warning. Hospital ignored this, and didn't pay attention to their on site O2 tanks content. It is a gross fuckup on the hospitals part to not pay a bill for that long. Still a fucking atrocity that so many patients died, but the hospital administrators are at most fault here.

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;52570717]You know, every time I see your opinions I think more and more that you're not a very nice person. You'd deny a hospital its oxygen supply because of unpaid bills knowing full well that the oxygen is life saving? That's fuckin cold man, where's your heart? Like, nobody here is expecting them to be able to get it for free but there has to be something in place due to this being a hospital to prevent this type of shit from happening.[/QUOTE] If a hospital doesn't pay its oxygen bill in like 6 months what do you think is going to happen? Thats the same dumb scenario as all of the cops in a small town going on strike or quit their job. Sure it sucks but you cant force people to do something.

[QUOTE=Terminutter;52570964]To be fair to the O2 company, they expanded the limit of the unpaid bill before cutoff three times, and gave the hospital 6 months warning. Hospital ignored this, and didn't pay attention to their on site O2 tanks content. It is a gross fuckup on the hospitals part to not pay a bill for that long. Still a fucking atrocity that so many patients died, but the hospital administrators are at most fault here.[/QUOTE] Ok, so why wasn't there government involvement and someone taking control of this scenario? These alarm bells about a hospital failings must be flagged by ANYONE from either party well before people start dying. It's an unnecessary holocaust. [editline]14th August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=ultra_bright;52570973]If a hospital doesn't pay its oxygen bill in like 6 months what do you think is going to happen? Thats the same dumb scenario as all of the cops in a small town going on strike or quitting their job. Sure it sucks but you cant force people to do something.[/QUOTE] If a hospital fails, authorities must intervene to prevent patient risk. Nobody is asking to force companies to deliver gases but people must have plans in place to avoid this from ever occurring. But no, the company went "hey, you didn't pay me, say goodbye to your patients". And don't say they didn't because you know full well cutting oxygen supplies to hospital is detrimental. Any dingbat can read into the heartless nature of these failures.

It absolutely needs to be both parties involved. Do you know why? Because if one party fucks up on purpose, which they did, then the other must ring the alarm. You must have a co-operative work ethic ALWAYS when it comes to healthcare. Because unlike other fields, people actually die if it doesn't happen. [editline]14th August 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Trebgarta;52570988] I have already done that in the previous post[/QUOTE] sorry, i didn't read your long post because i don't know ur username very well. will do now.

Look at that sturdy fucking infrastructure that so many people depend on. You would think they would have noticed when the bottles started running low and they weren't getting new ones, seems like negligence from the hospital on multiple levels. [IMG]https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/2017/08/pri_49361431.jpg?w=620&h=386&crop=1[/IMG] Its possible this could of been causing the supplier to go bankrupt, not all businesses are mega corporations floating in cash.

[QUOTE=AK'z;52570981]Ok, so why wasn't there government involvement and someone taking control of this scenario? These alarm bells about a hospital failings must be flagged by ANYONE from either party well before people start dying. It's an unnecessary holocaust.[/QUOTE] The oxygen company [b]had[/b] been flagging the issues down? Both the hospital and local government then ignored the notices. What was the company to do? Hell, I work for the NHS and put my patients first, but I am struggling to see anything other than government and hospital negligence. The company literally kept on giving warnings and attempting to get the bill settled - they kept on raising their limit before cutoff, they warned the hospital that they would cutoff, and they told the hospital exactly how much they had. Then the state / province / whatever term it is governor literally tries blaming the O2 company, and ignoring the massive fuckup at a governmental or hospital level to blame the company. I dislike private involvement in healthcare, but in this case, I literally can''t see what more they could do - they have bills to pay, and had gone way past reasonable accommodation.

if the government was aware, then this is a total failure of the state. i think the entire country needs to resassess their life, merge with pakistan and bring back Gandhi.

[QUOTE=AK'z;52570981]Ok, so why wasn't there government involvement and someone taking control of this scenario? These alarm bells about a hospital failings must be flagged by ANYONE from either party well before people start dying. It's an unnecessary holocaust. [editline]14th August 2017[/editline] If a hospital fails, authorities must intervene to prevent patient risk. Nobody is asking to force companies to deliver gases but people must have plans in place to avoid this from ever occurring. But no, the company went "hey, you didn't pay me, say goodbye to your patients". And don't say they didn't because you know full well cutting oxygen supplies to hospital is detrimental. Any dingbat can read into the heartless nature of these failures.[/QUOTE] Lol that makes the company heartless for knowingly cutting off the oxygen after 6 months of non payment? How do you think people survive and where do you think jobs come from? You can't expect companies to go bankrupt giving away free product.

[QUOTE=ultra_bright;52571046]Lol that makes the company heartless for knowingly cutting off the oxygen after 6 months of non payment? How do you think people survive and where do you think jobs come from? You can't expect companies to go bankrupt giving away free product.[/QUOTE] the company had a duty to highlight this to the proper authorities and commence a contingency plan. but apparently the government failed to do this, so if the facts are correct, then the company here isn't at fault and I concede the argument.

[QUOTE=AK'z;52571296]the company had a duty to highlight this to the proper authorities and commence a contingency plan. but apparently the government failed to do this, so if the facts are correct, then the company here isn't at fault and I concede the argument.[/QUOTE] The reason people are plenty mad about this is because, summarily, these are the facts: The oxygen supplier cut them off after amassing a massive backlog of payment from the hospital and after repeated warnings, there was no resolution in sight. The hospital was attempting to leverage their position in the community to strong-arm the oxygen supplier to keep providing them said oxygen cylinders, [I]gratis[/I]. Their exact argument was likely the exact same one the government and the fucking [I]bhakts[/I] are trying to push now to deflect criticism - "How could you discontinue and let these poor children die? Children's lives are more important than money, man!" anytime the issue of the deficit was brought up. It should also be known that this is par for the course as far as government run facilities is concerned, because India is corrupt as fuck. The running theory is that the person on the Supplies committee in the hospital was in on this and was likely waiting for on a "cut" from the oxygen supplier for the contract and wasn't paying out until he/she got their cut. What also makes this inexcusable is the fact that hospital, knowing that their oxygen supplies were running low, didn't take adequate measures to have the patients transferred to other hospitals that could've saved their lives. The hospital let them die due to their incompetence and inaction. On top of all of this, there is now an active campaign in place to steer the conversation back onto the issue of nationalism (as August 15th is Indian independence day) and there's a tussle in the media about how this was a "non-issue" stirred up the government's detractors to shame them. One of the doctors at the hospital, Dr. Kafeel Khan, tried to save as many children as he could by using [I]his own savings[/I]to buy oxygen cylinders, but he couldn't do enough. :frown: What's worse is that now, there's an active agenda in place to try and frame [I]him[/I] for the issue in the first place, claiming that he was smuggling away cylinders to be sent to his own private clinic. He has been suspended from his duties following an investigation. The entire thing is a shitshow, so one of the political comics that appeared in the local dailies was....darker than usual. :frown: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/p7d8oRN.jpg[/IMG]

Well damn, I feel bad for my initial analysis - this is just a thoroughly fucked up situation through and through. I had no idea the public facilities sector in india was so corrupt to allow such an insanely cruel situation to arise. Everyone involved should feel ashamed of themselves. Except for that doctor. he sounds rad.

[QUOTE=Orkel;52570147]It was a private supplier, a private company. Don't pay the bills for months, and any company would stop giving you shit for free. The only one who deserves jail is the person that didn't pay the bills, and had no backup plan for losing their oxygen supply.[/QUOTE] Yes, meaning you are private means you have 0 responsibility even though you realize oxygen is necessary for life, you can just shut it down and kill people? What about warning the hospital? Warning the other bodies in government? Telling media that hospital is not paying oxygen bills?

[QUOTE=WillerinV1.02;52571466]Except for that doctor. he sounds rad.[/QUOTE] He, unfortunately, isn't [I]entirely[/I] blameless. [URL="http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/gorakhpur-hospital-tragedy-kafeel-ahmed-oxygen-cylinders-supply/1/1025546.html"]The initial reports state that the man was also a part of the Supplies department and he failed to notify the authorities, or convince the hospital administration to pay the outstanding bill. [/URL] [QUOTE=Fourier;52571481]Yes, meaning you are private means you have 0 responsibility even though you realize oxygen is necessary for life, you can just shut it down and kill people? What about warning the hospital?[/QUOTE] [URL="http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/gorakhpur-hospital-ignored-warnings-on-oxygen-supply/article19482730.ece"]They did.[/URL] The government, predictably, ignored them. [QUOTE]Warning the other bodies in government?[/QUOTE] Unlikely to move anywhere, especially in the current government which is filled to the brim all drinking the BJP's pro-Hindu nationalist koolaid. To top it off, the current chief minister of the state is also a Hindu "godman" which fits right in with their current agenda (said CM was also a leader from Gorakhpur and was, likely, aware of the hospital and it's administration.). Hell, for this company to have even gotten the contract to supply the hospital, it was likely through an "understanding" with the actual tender process being a sham. [QUOTE]Telling media that hospital is not paying oxygen bills?[/QUOTE] Again, see above - same government would've likely victimized the shit out of the business either directly (launching probes and trying to audit the ever loving shit out of it until the company drops the case) or indirectly (send a few "party members" - read party-sanctioned goons) to destroy the shit out of the company's premises. In fact, considering that this is Uttar Pradesh, one of the most lawless states in India, the owner would've likely been shot dead. Doing business in India, with this government (or hell, even previous governments), is a bad decision unless you're willing to grease a few palms. It's pretty much accepted that unless you have leverage on the politicians whose palms you're greasing, you will never see any of that money return back to you.

I can't say I blame the company. Do you know how much oxygen even a small hospital goes through? Add in delivery, cost of the actual oxygen and compression, that's a LOT of money, and supplying the hospital without any payment from the hospital or government could very well send that company out of business very quickly, then the hospital would definitely lose oxygen anyways.

[QUOTE=Judas;52570634]"I would'nt give away free oxygen to dying children" this is your brain on capitalism[/QUOTE] Way to oversimplify. The blame is on the hospital officials responsible, the gas provider already did more than what was expected of them by continuing to supply the gas after payments stopped. It's like, a rich person stops giving money to a poor person who then starves. Of course the poor person starved because the charity ceased, but the rich person had given while there would be other rich people and a whole society who could provide for the poor just as well.