Palmer is Leaving Oculus - Sensationalist Headlines

The difference in tracking is mostly down to placement, there is very little difference in the tracking quality of the sensors themselves. Most of the rifts tracking issues stem from the fact that most people have front facing cameras set about waist height, meaning you're gonna lost tracking if you turn your back to the cameras or bend down. I recently got an USB extension cable to be able to do 360 deg tracking (though still about waist height) and the tracking area and quality is practically identical to the vive, except for some issues with tracking very close to the floor which could be fixed by mounting the cameras higher. Granted, the fact that you have to get an extension cable or an extra camera to get comparable tracking is pretty bad from a design point.

[QUOTE=bitches;52040609]Deliberately disingenuous. There were at least a dozen videos of the Rift demonstrating roomscale Touch controller tracking [I]months[/I] before it released to consumers. This misinformation campaign is so tiring.[/QUOTE] I know they were working on the "touch" controllers for a while, but at the launch of the rift, it came with the xbox gamepad. but in the end, they were not the first, the vive was. I hear good things about the controller itself, even that it is more comfortable than the vive ones (I personally didnt care), but the room tracking itself is lack luster. I am completely fine if oculus improves their designs, more competition is always good. but I strongly disagree with their policies of control and exclusivity. I find it ironic that you fixate on small unclear details in others posts, then accuse others of being blinded by "fanboyism." I am not saying the rift is god awful. I am pointing out its flaws and how they could be addressed.

[QUOTE=da space core;52040991]I know they were working on the "touch" controllers for a while, but at the launch of the rift, it came with the xbox gamepad. but in the end, they were not the first, the vive was. I hear good things about the controller itself, even that it is more comfortable than the vive ones (I personally didnt care), but the room tracking itself is lack luster. I am completely fine if oculus improves their designs, more competition is always good. but I strongly disagree with their policies of control and exclusivity. I find it ironic that you fixate on small unclear details in others posts, then accuse others of being blinded by "fanboyism." I am not saying the rift is god awful. I am pointing out its flaws and how they could be addressed.[/QUOTE] Someone said that the Vive tracking was not so superior to Rift tracking as to purchase it on that feature alone. Your response was to tell them to go enjoy their xbox controller games, and now you're pretending that wasn't a jab at Rift roomscale tracking.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52040325]You have any reason for having that opinion or did you just want to come in here and shitpost?[/QUOTE] because my rift handles roomscale just fine. I've also got finger tracking and more sensibly designed controllers, I don't have to fumble around with an external audio solution, my headset is more comfortable, [i]and[/i] I spent less money. it's absolutely insane to me that people would so confidently say that they think the vive pre is the "better" product. It barely competes at the same price; there's exactly 0 advantages worth a premium. [QUOTE=da space core;52040550] I have gotten so much exercise thanks to room tracking games such as space pirate sim. I hope you enjoy playing games on a xbox controller. You do you.[/QUOTE] I'm enjoying my touch controllers immensely, thank you.

[QUOTE=1STrandomman;52041053]it's absolutely insane to me that peole would so confidently say that they think the vive pre is the "better" product. It barely competes at the same price; there's exactly 0 advantages worth a premium[/QUOTE] It's as if you ignored every point in this thread. I am not sure what to say to you or even where to start.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52041218]It's as if you ignored every point in this thread. I am not sure what to say to you or even where to start.[/QUOTE] apparently the correct place is by ignoring my points, but let me do you one better by handling the couple of things you said that weren't covered by "but roomscale" being bullshit. even if you decide you want to use your own audio, the rift headphones are removable, so the "vive is more upgradeable" point is moot. 99% of people will prefer the built in solution for it's convenience (not to mention the fact that they're pretty good in quality), but if you want to spend more for something better you can. The vive, on the other hand, requires you to spend another $100 for the convenience of having headphones built into the headset. That's [I]backwards[/I]. The visual differences between the headsets are negligible anyway, but regardless you only gain those few extra degrees of FOV at the cost of pixels per degree, which is also important. Whether the loss in image quality is actually worth it to you is *actually* subjective. On top of being bullshit, neither the lack of built in audio nor the image quality tradeoff would've made the vive worth the extra money. There is no feature the vive includes for it's base price that the rift can't match, and there are several the rift has that the vive doesn't. Maybe you don't know where to start because you've already hit a dead end?

Most of this is repeating myself or others in this thread, but here we go. [QUOTE=1STrandomman;52041306]apparently the correct place is by ignoring my points, but let me do you one better by handling the couple of things you said that weren't covered by "but roomscale" being bullshit. even if you decide you want to use your own audio, the rift headphones are removable, so the "vive is more upgradeable" point is moot. 99% of people will prefer the built in solution for it's convenience (not to mention the fact that they're pretty good in quality), but if you want to spend more for something better you can. The vive, on the other hand, requires you to spend another $100 for the convenience of having headphones built into the headset. That's [I]backwards[/I].[/QUOTE] The Vive comes with a special short version of the $79 HTC Studio Pro headphones in the box, which are of excellent quality as long as you like in-ear headphones. What you choose to do after sale is up to you, and the Vive still has USB audio support if the AUX cable doesn't handle your needs and you don't want to spend money on a strap/speaker combo. My personal opinion is that the audio harness for the Vive and what the Oculus ship with are both bad ideas. You want in-ear headphones to keep sound contained for immersion. [QUOTE=1STrandomman;52041306]The visual differences between the headsets are negligible anyway, but regardless you only gain those few extra degrees of FOV at the cost of pixels per degree, which is also important. Whether the loss in image quality is actually worth it to you is *actually* subjective. On top of being bullshit, neither the lack of built in audio nor the image quality tradeoff would've made the vive worth the extra money. There is no feature the vive includes for it's base price that the rift can't match, and there are several the rift has that the vive doesn't.[/QUOTE] Except for objective better roomscale experience, more options to track (See Vive pucks), wireless upgradability, and better FOV (Which is arguably the most important thing in a headset and is the exact reason why the image quality is slightly worse. It's a trade-off)? The Vive also has a better lens adjustment system, which allows you to get a clearer picture. The system in the Oculus can cause you to lose some PPD you find to be so important. It's important to note as well that the price drop is a recent thing, and for the longest time the Vive was only slightly more expensive than an Oculus and Touch Controllers, and less expensive if you factored in a 3rd or 4th camera needed to get even somewhat similar tracking capability. To this day they're still close enough that personal preference trumps the price difference. [QUOTE=1STrandomman;52041306]Maybe you don't know where to start because you've already hit a dead end?[/QUOTE] Time to calm down buddy. It's more of a case where I cannot solve your own cognitive dissonance. The most I can do in this thread is show others why you're wrong, and I feel I've done well enough in that avenue.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52041387]The Vive comes with $79 HTC Studio Pro headphones in the box, which are of excellent quality as long as you like in-ear headphones. What you choose to do after sale is up to you, and the Vive still has USB audio support.[/QUOTE] great, you still have to fumble around with shit every time you put the thing on or take it off. The whole point of the rift's integrated audio is that you don't have to, ie the feature is not matched by the vive at it's base price. [quote]Except for objective better roomscale experience, [/quote] wrong [quote]more options to track (see vive pucks)[/quote] [del]what are you even talking about[/del] yeah, the "option" of adding pucks is totally worth an extra $200, not to mention the extra $100 for each puck. Even a single fucking wand costs $130; for $30 less then that you get [I]two[/I] touch controllers [I]and[/I] a camera. [quote] wireless upgradability,[/quote] all of the vive wireless upgrades shown off so far are also compatible with the rift [quote]and better FOV (Which is arguably the most important thing in a headset and is the exact reason why the image quality is slightly worse, it's a trade-off.)?[/quote] you didn't read my post obviously it's a tradeoff (given that exact word [b]is in my post[/b]), and whether FOV or PPD is more important per the differences in the HMD's is, as I said, subjective [quote]Time to calm down buddy. It's more of a case where I cannot solve your own cognitive dissonance.[/quote] do you even know what that means? [quote]The most I can do in this thread is show others why you're wrong, and I feel I've done well enough in that avenue.[/quote] you certainly [I]feel[/I] that way

[QUOTE=1STrandomman;52041413]"Except for objective better roomscale experience," wrong[/QUOTE] And that's it, I'm basically done there. That was my point 4 posts ago. You cannot argue with someone who is wrong and does not care that they're wrong.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52041387] Except for objective better roomscale experience[/QUOTE] What if you aren't into VR for roomscale?

[QUOTE=J!NX;52041426]What if you aren't into VR for roomscale?[/QUOTE] Then I would actually recommend the Oculus right now considering the price. You may need to fumble with USB controllers a bit, but if you're looking for forward standing/sitting VR and don't consider FOV your #1 decision there's no way you can go wrong with a Rift. [QUOTE=1STrandomman;52041437]you're right, I can't argue with you.[/QUOTE] ;-)

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52041420]You cannot argue with someone who is wrong and does not care that they're wrong.[/QUOTE] you're right, I can't argue with you.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52041387]You want in-ear headphones to keep sound contained for immersion.[/QUOTE] The thing is that you're way better off with open-air headphones because it allows for a far better soundstage tbh. Better audio quality just automatically means a better experiance. It's really nice to have audio that feels like its not coming from a speaker, but instead, where its meant to be, without any real bias. so long as you don't live in a shithole with paper walls you should pretty much automatically avoid earbuds, especially when even the best earbuds make shitty headphones. I know going with headphones on my vive was the best decision ever. 100%. No need for USB either, just a simple short cable and a cord-removable pair of headphones. [QUOTE=1/4 Life;52041420]You cannot argue with someone who is wrong and does not care that they're wrong.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=1/4 Life;52041434];-)[/QUOTE] This has to be the most smug type of shit posting like I'm not even sure why you would think this was ok to post regardless of how right or wrong you think you are

[QUOTE=bitches;52041010]Someone said that the Vive tracking was not so superior to Rift tracking as to purchase it on that feature alone. Your response was to tell them to go enjoy their xbox controller games, and now you're pretending that wasn't a jab at Rift roomscale tracking.[/QUOTE] Ill admit it was a jab at where the Oculus was at launch, im aware of its state today. However, all i explained is the different feature set and policy set (and intrestingly everyone here ignored the policy part) Dismissing room tracking is stupid, it is integral to vr. Once again, i never said that the Oculus can never be improved upon, i am literally saying that it can and should, as well as some of the policies. Right now Oculus's approach is to add more cameras, which is impractical in a price and a bandwidth perspective. Not everyone has 5 usb ports (and you cant add usb hubs). They need to switch to a better alternative for their next Oculus revision. Now, that i have clarified myself and apologized for my "jab", is anyone willing to tackle any of the points I brought up on the policies of Oculus/Facebook?

[QUOTE=J!NX;52041442] This has to be the most smug type of shit posting like I'm not even sure why you would think this was ok to post regardless of how right or wrong you think you are[/QUOTE] It's more a response to low effort no-capitalization and no-punctuation replies and lack of reading. I'm not trying to shitpost per-se, and it's my last post to him in this thread regardless of any further bait.

[QUOTE=1/4 Life;52041461]It's more a response to low effort no-capitalization and no-punctuation replies. I'm not trying to shitpost per-se.[/QUOTE] Yeah no one really cares about caps, you've just kind of had an attitude throughout so lets not cut to an excuse. [QUOTE=1/4 Life;52041387] Time to calm down buddy. It's more of a case where I cannot solve your own cognitive dissonance. The most I can do in this thread is show others why you're wrong, and I feel I've done well enough in that avenue.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=1/4 Life;52041218]It's as if you ignored every point in this thread. I am not sure what to say to you or even where to start.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=1/4 Life;52038945]4: FOV is important, and the Vive won that war.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=1/4 Life;52040325]You have any reason for having that opinion or did you just want to come in here and shitpost?[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=1/4 Life;52040441]I'll take "Unwelcomed strawman arguments" for 500.[/QUOTE] like what the fuck is this lmao. You aren't even arguing anything here. As a vive fan this type of fanboyism is amazing. Objectively the Rift has its benefits over the Vive, and objectively the Vive has its wins. There are some things people value more than others, including resolution quality at the cost of FoV. This type of shit is why I hate split community like this. PS vs Xbox. PC vs Mac. Rift vs Vive. I swear every single one of you suck eggs.

[QUOTE=J!NX;52041490]like what the fuck is this lmao. You aren't even arguing anything here.[/QUOTE] Cherry-picked bits out of disagreements with multiple people?

[video=youtube;6M5ljBp3gUw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6M5ljBp3gUw[/video] on the topic of room scale and quality of things, seems like the Rifts room tracking is pretty close to the vives, and suffers from issues that are quite fixable with better software and managing cameras better. I remember I had shitloads of tracking issues with the Vive when I first started messing with it / it was early into its lifespan. Vive very much suffered from tracking issues early in its life time but its been optimized pretty well. The vive was, after all, made in a much shorter time than the rift so that's to be expected. But I'd say the vive is great now, almost flawless. If you don't get the lighthouses perfect you can very much end up under the floor / have your controllers fly around in VR. Really imho, the vive is an amazing piece of hardware that was made hastily compared to the rift and has its issues stemming from that. Such as the controllers pretty much just rehashing what the steam controller does yet not as effectively as it. This is why they're already remaking the controllers to emulate finger tracking like the rift has, which is great because that means I'll have to spend even more money for something that already costs hundreds. The vive controller has this strip of cord inside of it that can detach with the breath of a hair if you bump it just slightly hard enough. Considering how easy the steam controller is to repair and how effect it takes a drop, that's pretty insulting. I would know too because I had to personally open it up and fix it or risk paying for a replacement. So like, yeah, the vive has some pretty glaring flaws. I can pretty much completely understand why someone would pick rifts maybe less good tracking for better controllers and a more 'refined' experience, those controllers can make that a way better room scale experiance. Costs aside, some people don't want to fiddle with buying separate headphones to replace shitty earbuds or deal with controllers that could have been better. [editline]1st April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=1/4 Life;52041494]Cherry-picked bits out of disagreements with multiple people?[/QUOTE] You've been acting that way from your very first post, so its not at all a matter of cherry picking.

I don't get why these argument about which HMD is better is even necessary. So much misinformation and pure hatred in this thread. Like god damn, feels like I've walked into a 2008 thread about XBox VS PS3. They're both good HMDs and will both provide [B]excellent[/B] VR experiences, and they both have certain flaws - But none big enough to ruin the experience. The Vive can easily be used for sitting experiences, and the Rift can easily be used for room scale experiences. The Vive requires power outputs, the Rift requires USB outputs. The Vive has big controllers that work well for some things, the Rift has small controllers that work well for other things. The Vive has slightly wider FoV, the Rift has slightly sharper image. The PSVR has the best head-mount and is the most comfortable though ;)

[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52041640] The Vive has big controllers that work well for some things, the Rift has small controllers that work well for other things.[/QUOTE] The vives controllers I really don't think I prefer, since the lack of feed back is pretty obnoxious. I do feel like I need to just rant about these little annoyances too. it works great on a steam controller because if I'm using more than 4 buttons I can see on the screen the radial/touch UI but anything more than 4 feels off because the hud's always on the controller, so you may as well just go tactile. Funnily enough games make it 1 or 2 giant buttons either way. that and, screw having to use the vive controllers to do a small task, and having them collide together awkwardly. Reloading just feels awful. [editline]1st April 2017[/editline] I'd use a trackpad over a joystick any day outside of VR but tbh without finger tracking it just feels awful. Thankfully they're fixing this but that's a separate product and it's not here yet. That all being said I'd still rebuy the vive over the rift.

[QUOTE=Zang-Pog;52042094]I find it really sad that even in the early stages of VR we already have people divided into tribes, flinging shit at each other. Things like exclusive software, fanboyism and other dumb shit like that DRM that was thankfully worked around quickly are going to be the death of the VR business before it even got properly started[/QUOTE] Is there a way to work around Vive exclusive VR games/programs?

[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52042281]Is there a way to work around Vive exclusive VR games/programs?[/QUOTE] anything can be worked around but it's worth noting that Oculus has been contributing to development of web VR and Khronos industry standards so that they [I]can[/I] support other headsets without compromising their ASW optimization performance guarantees; they sell "Oculus-Ready" PCs that are supposed to be guaranteed to work smoothly on any Oculus store games despite a low cost. Oculus has been selling software for [I]months[/I] to Vive users that they give away free to their Rift customers, so the anti-Facebook DRM scandal is a farce. Meanwhile Valve demands that Oculus give up control over their own software development so that only Valve can decide what a VR developer API should look like, which isn't good considering SteamVR is a buggy mess for Rift users.

[QUOTE=Paul-Simon;52042281]Is there a way to work around Vive exclusive VR games/programs?[/QUOTE] Aside from when a select few developers make that decision (of their own volition), SteamVR is an open platform. So the answer is plug in the Rift and it's tracking accessories, then open any SteamVR game. [editline]1st April 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=bitches;52042364] Meanwhile Valve demands that Oculus give up control over their own software development so that only Valve can decide what a VR developer API should look like, which isn't good considering SteamVR is a buggy mess for Rift users.[/QUOTE] The code is literally open source and on GitHub without any weird or GPL like license. It's not a surprise Valve mostly works on the code for their platform; if Oculus cared they'd submit patches to fix their issues.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;52042387]The code is literally open source and on GitHub without any weird or GPL like license. It's not a surprise Valve mostly works on the code for their platform; if Oculus cared they'd submit patches to fix their issues.[/QUOTE] That still limits Oculus's ability to update software controlling how their own headset is used, to their competitor's schedule who may make changes that break something at any time. It's absurd. You don't have an "Open" standard that's managed by one company with a vested interest in competition, hence the Khronos initiative.

[QUOTE=bitches;52042411]That still limits Oculus's ability to update software controlling how their own headset is used, to their competitor's schedule who may make changes that break something at any time. It's absurd. You don't have an "Open" standard that's managed by one company with a vested interest in competition, hence the Khronos initiative.[/QUOTE] Whom Valve is also working with. You also act like the Valve VR team acts the same way their game teams, they don't; any dude at Oculus could just email Joe Ludwig and be like "hey, that patch we submitted is urgent could you build and push to steam, thanks" and they'd get a reply.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;52042442]Whom Valve is also working with.[/QUOTE] I didn't say otherwise, and that is the point. Valve and Oculus, and the rest of the industry, have to work together in one collaborative group that none of them own in order for there to be a truly open VR standard. What I did say was that until that time, it doesn't make sense for Oculus to not retain control over their own software.

[QUOTE=bitches;52042461]I didn't say otherwise, and that is the point. Valve and Oculus, and the rest of the industry, have to work together in one collaborative group that none of them own in order for there to be a truly open VR standard. What I did say was that until that time, it doesn't make sense for Oculus to not retain control over their own software.[/QUOTE] Your argument is without teeth, you said (and you've made this claim before) that Oculus has this impossible bar to meet to get their hardware working well for SteamVR (called OpenVR now), this is demonstrably false. When Kronos does get around to finishing a VR spec, it's going to be based around OpenVR, not Oculus's proprietary API.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;52042480]Your argument is without teeth, you said (and you've made this claim before) that Oculus has this impossible bar to meet to get their hardware working well for SteamVR (called OpenVR now), this is demonstrably false. When Kronos does get around to finishing a VR spec, it's going to be based around OpenVR, not Oculus's proprietary API.[/QUOTE] I didn't say that; you're putting words in my mouth. I said that Oculus needs to retain control over its software for user experience and FPS guarantees, which isn't controversial in the slightest. Khronos will be based on the industry need of both companies. The Oculus API is more advanced, with SteamVR optimizations lagging behind by half a year, and that isn't up for debate.

[QUOTE=bitches;52042490]I didn't say that; you're putting words in my mouth. [/QUOTE] Not in those exact words, but it's the tone and implication of your words. Listen I'd love to copy each relevant statement and also ones from the last time we did this, but I'm on at work on my phone, and a single quote cut and splice takes upward of a minute to do, ontop of my general slow phone typing. [QUOTE=bitches;52042490] I said that Oculus needs to retain control over its software for user experience and FPS guarantees, which isn't controversial in the slightest. [/Quote] If Oculus wants to keep it's secret sauce secret the direct consequence is they can't make it open source. [QUOTE=bitches;52042490] Khronos will be based on the industry need of both companies. The Oculus API is more advanced, with SteamVR optimizations lagging behind by half a year, and that isn't up for debate.[/QUOTE] Oculus needs a walled garden, the only interest they have in Kronos is Oculus hardware working off other people's platforms.

[QUOTE=glitchvid;52042556]Not in those exact words, but it's the tone and implication of your words. Listen I'd love to copy each relevant statement and also ones from the last time we did this, but I'm on at work on my phone, and a single quote cut and splice takes upward of a minute to do, ontop of my general slow phone typing. If Oculus wants to keep it's secret sauce secret the direct consequence is they can't make it open source. Oculus needs a walled garden, the only interest they have in Kronos is Oculus hardware working off other people's platforms.[/QUOTE] "Walled garden", really? How is selling games to Vive users and giving them to their own customers for free a walled garden? Also, nice job misrepresenting my argument about software control. It isn't about secrets, it's about [I]retaining the ability to make any software change you want without approval[/I].