Man featured in a documentary called ‘The Jihadis Next Door’ was one of London attackers - Sensationalist Headlines

Well we could go full draconian police state and basically throw people in jail for thought crimes but I don't think that's a world we want to live in

[QUOTE=loopoo;52318612]I'm calling bullshit. Only situation in which extremists would blow up other Muslims would be if they were from a different sect. And as selfish as this may sound, I'd rather they go blow themselves up somewhere else instead of in the UK. Like people have already stated in the thread, even if they have strong ties to extremist groups, it's not illegal for them to have those views, meaning they can't be preemptively locked up. It'd be a huge time and money sink having to monitor these fuckwads 24/7 to catch them in the act, or before the act. Easier to just deport them. You hate the West so much? Then fuck off out of here. You don't deserve to shop in Tesco or eat at Greggs, you cunt.[/QUOTE] Before the Charlie Hebdo attacks we had a guy called Mohammed Merah who targeted several other Muslims he considered to be "traitors" (for being in the French military) or not devout enough. He's known for shooting up a Jewish school right after but half of his kills have nonetheless been motivated solely by the fact his targets weren't "proper muslims" in his own perception. And to go back to my previous point, the guy [I]was[/I] known of French counterterrorism/intelligence agencies and was even called by them following news of the killings because they instantly suspected him. But every system has its cracks and there wasn't much they could have done short of depriving the guy of his freedoms before he had actually done anything. [editline]6th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=DeEz;52318630]Well we could go full draconian police state and basically throw people in jail for thought crimes but I don't think that's a world we want to live in[/QUOTE] France legitimately tried to do that after the Charlie Hebdo attacks and it went as well as you'd expect. People who were thrown in jail for "condoning terrorism" were accidentally introduced to the very same terrorism cells they defended on social media, because those cells have massive influence in the prison system and they wouldn't miss out on such an opportunity to recruit more disenfranchised, alienated, stupidly gullible and easily manipulated people. [editline]6th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=loopoo;52318612]Easier to just deport them. You hate the West so much? Then fuck off out of here. You don't deserve to shop in Tesco or eat at Greggs, you cunt.[/QUOTE] Most of these people are born citizens of the nation they attack, it's domestic terrorism by definition. You can't "deport" them because they're already home. What are you going to do, force some random nation in the middle east to give them citizenship ? Like sorry you don't like your own citizens broski but they kind of have a right to be around as much as you do. A crime's only a crime once you've moved towards committing it.

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52318631]Most of these people are born citizens of the nation they attack, it's domestic terrorism by definition. You can't "deport" them because they're already home. What are you going to do, force some random nation in the middle east to give them citizenship ? Like sorry you don't like your own citizens broski but they kind of have a right to be around as much as you do. A crime's only a crime once you've moved towards committing it.[/QUOTE] We're all dual nationality citizens man. Aye, we may be born and bred in the country, but I can guarantee that if one or both of your parents are from an Arabic country, you'll have said Arabic passport. They lose their right to be around as much as the rest of us the minute they start harboring those ideals.

[QUOTE=DeEz;52318630]Well we could go full draconian police state and basically throw people in jail for thought crimes but I don't think that's a world we want to live in[/QUOTE] 'Do nothing further to actively prevent terrorist attacks, or become a police state and throw people in jail for thought crimes' is a false dichotomy if I've ever heard one.

[QUOTE=loopoo;52318657]We're all dual nationality citizens man. Aye, we may be born and bred in the country, but I can guarantee that if one or both of your parents are from an Arabic country, you'll have said Arabic passport. They lose their right to be around as much as the rest of us the minute they start harboring those ideals.[/QUOTE] And you think those "arabic countries" want them around ? Fuck off with that. No one wants them around, that's why they're terrorists. To mention the same Mohammed Merah guy, you know what his dual citizenship was ? French and Algerian. You know where he fucking went to train, meet terrorist organizations and prepare (which is what got him to be known from by intelligence agencies, btw) ? Syria, Afghanistan and Pakistan, none of which he had citizenship for, and none of which would have granted him citizenship for attempting to join a terrorist cell. His plans with his travels was notably to get kidnapped as a tourist by the Taliban so he could then ask to join them. And Algeria's one boat ride away from France, so how efficient that would have been at keeping him at bay is obviously a wee bit questionable.

[QUOTE=catbarf;52318694]'Do nothing further to actively prevent terrorist attacks, or become a police state and throw people in jail for thought crimes' is a false dichotomy if I've ever heard one.[/QUOTE] Yes those are the two only options, that's exactly what I said :disappoint:

[QUOTE=catbarf;52318694]'Do nothing further to actively prevent terrorist attacks, or become a police state and throw people in jail for thought crimes' is a false dichotomy if I've ever heard one.[/QUOTE] Man he may actually be able to skip a whole meal with how many words you're putting in his mouth

[QUOTE=Ganerumo;52318727]Man he may actually be able to skip a whole meal with how many words you're putting in his mouth[/QUOTE] I'll take straw man for 100, Alex

[QUOTE=DeEz;52318721]Yes those are the two only options, that's exactly what I said :disappoint:[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Ganerumo;52318727]Man he may actually be able to skip a whole meal with how many words you're putting in his mouth[/QUOTE] I apologize DeEz, I missed that you were saying that in response to Ganerumo's statement about never being able to stop 100% of attacks, and misinterpreted your comment as a response to the general trend of the thread. My bad, you are absolutely right.

[QUOTE=Tudd;52317024]Well I sure as hell think that him being a "low-priority" was a mislabeling. Anyone intimately connected with a group like that in the documentary should easily be high-priority for domestic threats. And I mean have people investigate these groups, subvert them if you have to, or just crack down on them like Germany does and start locking up or issuing punishments/deportations/defunding for linkage to terrorist groups. "No intelligence they were planning anything." doesn't mean they didn't have evidence the guy was linked to a group supportive of terrorist groups. Watch the documentary and just look at the association he had with a group linked to ISIS fighters that they were friends with or carrying around the black flag of ISIS. I mean really, did you just ignore the quotes I put.[/QUOTE] What you're proposing isn't very realistic. Yes, I agree, anybody that has knowingly communicated with ISIS or expressed frequent support of extremist ideology needs to be carefully watched, but it's just not possible to have eyes and ears on somebody 24 hours a day. While this attack was planned, it was not something that could have been easily discovered or prevented. Anybody can pick up a knife, and anybody can rent a van. Yes, they should have been investigated, and likely were, but short of devoting around the clock surveillance, possibly for years, there is no way this could have been prevented. [editline]6th June 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=loopoo;52318576]Not as much of a threat as it poses to Britain. The whole extremist ideology is that Western culture needs to be replaced with extremist Islam. If he's in Libya, the fuck is he gonna do? Blow up Muslims in the hopes of making people even more devout Muslims? It'd hopefully make them realise how good they had it here, and how they pissed away everything they had. Give em a few years stewing in their own country and they'll realise what they thought about it all was fucked, but good luck ever getting back in.[/QUOTE] You realize that 99%+ of ISIL's victims have been other Muslims, right? They don't care if you're Muslim, they care that you're [I]the right kind of Muslim,[/I] and more importantly, they demand that you willingly submit to ISIS. Every single Muslim on the planet who doesn't willingly join the "one true Islamic State," is considered an apostate, which is punishable by death.

Wouldn't a simple solution be to outlaw extremist Islamic views, and legally have the right to jail/deport people based on proof that they are extremists?

hehe, Butt

[QUOTE=DiBBs27;52319125]Wouldn't a simple solution be to outlaw extremist Islamic views, and legally have the right to jail/deport people based on proof that they are extremists?[/QUOTE] Where do u draw the line between extremism and fundimentalism? Would it apply to extremists from other religions? Would it apply to extremists from other ideologies? What is considered extreme? Wishing death to certain individuals? Advocating for discrimination? Criticising our culture? Criticising our foreign policy? We can probably all agree that someone who says "death to infidels" is an extremist and potential thread but then all the bad guys have to do is avoid saying something obviously illegal (like that asshole Anjam Chowdry did in london did for years, blatantly a hate preacher but knew the law and played by the rules, technically. Luckily they got him.)