Google Employee's Memo: "Google's Ideological Echo Chamber", Goes Internally Viral - Sensationalist Headlines

[QUOTE=Streecer;52544573]Don't know why a 10 page screed I could find on any website comments section on the internet is suddenly an enlightened piece of truth because it came from the mouth of a google employee. Seriously, this reads like a fucking reddit comment, or a south park monologue.[/QUOTE] His paper reads like an argument, your post reads like a tumblr rant.

Am I the only one who feels the scariest part here is the crap google is trying to push? All that manipulating searches and limiting exposure of videos to suppress controversial opinions is pretty damn fucking scary.

[QUOTE=Snowmew;52544780]For example, the "national aggregate" bombshell you quote refers to the fact that women as a whole population are paid less than men, which is true, but you flat-out ignore the statement immediately behind it that women are paid just as much for the same work[/QUOTE] That's actually what I said though??? Women may be paid as much as men for the same work and position, but the wage gap still exists, and he openly states the reason behind it in his own memo before saying that it doesn't.

[QUOTE=DinoJesus;52544738]I'm pretty upset that they removed his provided evidence. It feels like Gizmodo wanted to cripple the meat of his argument.[/QUOTE] Because they do.

I mean I've never wanted to go to Google anyway. There's something... not right about the culture there. I think it's the sense of loyalty I noticed. Or needing to promote the company. All I'm going to say really about sexism in the industry is that from my college course I can tell that the females in our course are on par with the males students, but I've also noticed that the females tend to be better at the whole social connections side. I've also never noticed any differences between female workers or executives or whatever in the tech companies I've done intern stuff with.

[QUOTE]Stop alienating conservatives. Viewpoint diversity is arguably the most important type of diversity and political orientation is one of the most fundamental and significant ways in which people view things differently. In highly progressive environments, conservatives are a minority that feel like they need to stay in the closet to avoid open hostility. We should empower those with different ideologies to be able to express themselves. Alienating conservatives is both non-inclusive and generally bad business because conservatives tend to be higher in conscientiousness, which is require for much of the drudgery and maintenance work characteristic of a mature company.[/QUOTE] This memo is less "anti-diversity" but more "be diverse in a way that favors political conservatives and also me"

I didn't want to post this initially because this is a heavily controversial topic, but I see two groups, Blank Slate(ism) and scientists acknowledging some Biological Difference. Before you jump me: *Trans sex exists even with Bio Differences accounted for (Sex is not a Social Construct)-- This one is major because Conservatives are using the blank slate version to start with conversion camps. *IQ does have heritable Traits (Still not like the Neo-Nazi's Think, we still can fix things) *Race exists and isn't a social construct (please do not attack me on this point, that's it)

i didnt know google recently bought reddit

[QUOTE=DinoJesus;52544738]I'm pretty upset that they removed his provided evidence. It feels like Gizmodo wanted to cripple the meat of his argument.[/QUOTE] That's not necessarily what they did. The essay refers to several Google-internal services. It is entirely possible the removed links pointed to Google intranet.

Idk why people relate reddit to conservative thoughts so much? Most redditors I see are pretty frikkin liberal. 4chan is more conservative.

[QUOTE=kharkovus;52545026]Idk why people relate reddit to conservative thoughts so much? Most redditors I see are pretty frikkin liberal. 4chan is more conservative.[/QUOTE] Reddit's a full on echo-chamber for the most part and it's rare for there to be any actual valuable political conversation. Now that I know this is about "conservatives don't feel welcome here and that should change! Political diversity is the most important!!" I have to wonder - just what views is he expressing that's getting a cold shoulder from his workmates? :thinking:

Ah yes, Google, the second most valuable brand in existence after Amazon, is going to be brought to the ground by its... founding principles of diversity and equality, which they've operated on since conception and have proven to be highly successful strategies...? Conservatives love the free market up until it inconveniences them personally.

[QUOTE=kharkovus;52545026]Idk why people relate reddit to conservative thoughts so much? Most redditors I see are pretty frikkin liberal. 4chan is more conservative.[/QUOTE] I've heard reddit described more as brocialist, being progressive when it benefits them (e.g. drugs, poorer people) but otherwise are fairly conservative (e.g. minorities).

[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcTdlCtW2dA[/media] Jim's video on this actually goes into depth why this is a bad thing. You gotta realize that Google is pushing their ideologies onto their platforms, and is censoring any wrong-think. We have seen this already with conservative channels, firearms/hunting/fishing channels, and otherwise being hit with tons of red-flags and being demonitized. Not to mention it's also being done with the likes of account throttling, where people's comments will simply not be seen on Youtube if they are deemed to not be within Google's guidelines and beliefs. Yeah, I know you guys disagree with a lot of these people, but it's not a reason to simply deplatform them, because all this will accomplish is radicalizing them.

[QUOTE=kharkovus;52545026]Idk why people relate reddit to conservative thoughts so much? Most redditors I see are pretty frikkin liberal. 4chan is more conservative.[/QUOTE] /pol/ (and regulars from there posting elsewhere) is the mostly conservative circlejerk. Rest of it (apart from /k/ occasionally) seems more like apathetic realists

[QUOTE=RedDagger;52545121]I've heard reddit described more as brocialist, being progressive when it benefits them (e.g. drugs, poorer people) but otherwise are fairly conservative (e.g. minorities).[/QUOTE] It's a lot more complicated than that. The different subs have very, very different communities that they attract, and like I said political discussion reddit is largely pointless when the views that are seen most are just the 'popular' - but usually never well argued - view. Couple with being banned for even just having slightly different views on issues (hello r/the_donald and r/latestagecapitalism (note: yes, I am well aware r/the_donald is at-least 100 times worse on this, but that's not saying much)), to even just being banned automatically for commenting on a certain sub (some subs ban you automatically for commenting on r/the_donald without taking into account *why* you commented in that sub), it's pointless to try and dispher reddit's politik.

[QUOTE=1239the;52545095]Ah yes, Google, the second most valuable brand in existence after Amazon, is going to be brought to the ground by its... founding principles of diversity and equality, which they've operated on since conception and have proven to be highly successful strategies...? Conservatives love the free market up until it inconveniences them personally.[/QUOTE] Have you actually [I]read[/I] the essay? Particularly, the list of actionable suggestions it makes at the end? Nowhere does it suggest "end diversity" or "end equality" or anything of the sort. Its position is against forcing diversity through affirmative action and against the sort of culture where writing this sort of essay gets you bullied and possibly fired.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;52545139] Jim's video on this actually goes into depth why this is a bad thing. You gotta realize that Google is pushing their ideologies onto their platforms, and is censoring any wrong-think. We have seen this already with conservative channels, firearms/hunting/fishing channels, and otherwise being hit with tons of red-flags and being demonitized. Not to mention it's also being done with the likes of account throttling, where people's comments will simply not be seen on Youtube if they are deemed to not be within Google's guidelines and beliefs. Yeah, I know you guys disagree with a lot of these people, but it's not a reason to simply deplatform them, because all this will accomplish is radicalizing them.[/QUOTE] Fucking tons of left-wing channels have been censored/demonetized too, or even just politically neutral channels who get slapped with an automated DMCA or copyright claim. Google is notoriously shit at handling this and it affects [B]everyone[/B]. It's just that conservatives act like it only happens to them to perpetuate a (ironic) victim narrative. Nice little slice of the target audience of this conspiracy theory bullshit on those comments, too. [IMG]https://puu.sh/x3dbn/5d46112581.png[/IMG] I fucking hate all this bio-truth bullshit this manifesto is pushing. Computing was a woman's job back when computing was a new thing. Many of the founders of modern computing and programming were women. But this history has been conveniently overlooked and instead replaced with woke dumbasses doing the :thinking: emoji while pondering 'maybe women are just biologically stupid compared to men, that's why they don't work in smart jobs like us men do'. We've demonstrated over and over again with scientific experiment that this is bullshit, that blind testing on gender totally eliminates gender bias when selectors don't know the person's gender, that female IQ tests are directly correlated with their access to the education that men get. But none of this will be good enough for the types that wrote this stupid screed.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;52545139] Jim's video on this actually goes into depth why this is a bad thing. You gotta realize that Google is pushing their ideologies onto their platforms, and is censoring any wrong-think. We have seen this already with conservative channels, firearms/hunting/fishing channels, and otherwise being hit with tons of red-flags and being demonitized. [/QUOTE] Advertisers don't want to be associated with that content. It's pretty simple. Pro-LGBT and various left-wing channels for example bitch about it too. What evidence is there for comments being [B]purely for ideology[/B] besides weak conjecture and anecdotes. Yes, google filters content by many criteria. That doesn't mean it's Orwellian as you put it.

[QUOTE=1239the;52545173] We've demonstrated over and over again with scientific experiment that this is bullshit, that blind testing on gender totally eliminates gender bias when selectors don't know the person's gender, that female IQ tests are directly correlated with their access to the education that men get. But none of this will be good enough for the types that wrote this stupid screed.[/QUOTE] Actually the only "biotruths" he refers to are all very mild: [QUOTE]•Openness directed towards feelings and aesthetics rather than ideas. Women generally also have a stronger interest in people rather than things, relative to men (also interpreted as empathizing vs. systemizing). •These two differences in part explain why women relatively prefer jobs in social or artistic areas. More men may like coding because it requires systemizing and even within SWEs, comparatively more women work on front end, which deals with both people and aesthetics. •Extraversion expressed as gregariousness rather than assertiveness. Also, higher agreeableness. This leads to women generally having a harder time negotiating salary, asking for raises, speaking up, and leading. Note that these are just average differences and there’s overlap between men and women, but this is seen solely as a women’s issue. This leads to exclusory programs like Stretch and swaths of men without support. •Neuroticism (higher anxiety, lower stress tolerance).This may contribute to the higher levels of anxiety women report on Googlegeist and to the lower number of women in high stress jobs.[/QUOTE] I don't know if they are sources behind the statements about the first two points, but he is talking about preferences rather then abilities, so he doesn't claim that women are dumber or worse at programming, but that they may (statistically) enjoy them less. Even if this statement is not backed by science, it is still pretty tame and not worth an outrage of any kind. I am 99% sure that the other two claims about women being less likely to speak up and lower stress tolerance are absolutely backed by science. The one about stress especially, I had a text about it on english classes in high school once (please dont laugh).

Leaked poll for Google employees only [t]http://i.imgur.com/QGy1RTf.jpg[/t] Seems like not everybody at Google is against the document. Notice how there's more negative options than positive options also.

[QUOTE=Burnout6010;52545238]Leaked poll for Google employees only [t]http://i.imgur.com/QGy1RTf.jpg[/t] Seems like not everybody at Google is against the document. Notice how there's more negative options than positive options also.[/QUOTE] Notice how most will still defend his right to say it. So it's not the SJW regime censoring opinions my libertarian friends keep saying.

[QUOTE=Burnout6010;52545238]Leaked poll for Google employees only [t]http://i.imgur.com/QGy1RTf.jpg[/t] Seems like not everybody at Google is against the document. Notice how there's more negative options than positive options also.[/QUOTE] Guess Google isn't an echo chamber who would have thought

[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;52545248] So it's not the SJW regime censoring opinions my libertarian friends keep saying.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Lambeth;52545255]Guess Google isn't an echo chamber who would have thought[/QUOTE] Keep in mind, that's what the employees think. We will have to see how the management reacts to all this crap. If he gets punished institutionally, it will be a pretty good evidence that the kind of pressure he talks about really exists.

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52545255]Guess Google isn't an echo chamber who would have thought[/QUOTE] It's an [I]anonymous[/I] poll. This does nothing to disprove the claim that expressing these opinions gets you shunned or worse. [QUOTE=Burnout6010;52545238]Leaked poll for Google employees only [t]http://i.imgur.com/QGy1RTf.jpg[/t] Seems like not everybody at Google is against the document. Notice how there's more negative options than positive options also.[/QUOTE] [del]A poll titled "PC Considered Harmful" may not be entirely unbiased in what sort of respondents it attracts.[/del] Apparently "PC Considered Harmful" is the title of the essay.

[QUOTE=BlackMageMari;52545155]It's a lot more complicated than that. The different subs have very, very different communities that they attract, and like I said political discussion reddit is largely pointless when the views that are seen most are just the 'popular' - but usually never well argued - view. Couple with being banned for even just having slightly different views on issues (hello r/the_donald and r/latestagecapitalism (note: yes, I am well aware r/the_donald is at-least 100 times worse on this, but that's not saying much)), to even just being banned automatically for commenting on a certain sub (some subs ban you automatically for commenting on r/the_donald without taking into account *why* you commented in that sub), it's pointless to try and dispher reddit's politik.[/QUOTE] I think it's fair to go for a general feel of reddit with its most popular subreddits and the sentiments that get upvoted in their comments sections, and while it's going to be muddy with the non-political subs for the reasons you've said, a not-entirely-accepting-of-minorities worldview shines through; the kind of casual bigotry which is excused as jokes or banter, or a defence of IFLS-level traditionalist masturbatory "science" that really keeps in line with the brocialist theme. I think it's fair to slap them with a moderate centrist label, swinging left and right depending on the subject matter. Definitely not fair to paint the entirety of reddit with that brush, but for the majority or plurality of stuff that gets upvoted, there's going to be a fair amount of soft liberal and conservative viewpoints, consistent with the subject matter. Sounds vague but it's a long way of saying I don't consider reddit left/liberal at all, def seems more centrist. E: I'm sorry, this has nothing to do with the thread lmao

[QUOTE=Lambeth;52545255]Guess Google isn't an echo chamber who would have thought[/QUOTE] Companys policies may differ from employees' personal views and beliefs. What mostly makes me outright hate political correctness and """"deeeeveeersity"""" is that, mainly two points: A) the "If you do not agree, then you are wrong, get out, end of story". B) Employing people for their color / gender / whatever semi-arbitrary point is. It has been long witnessed that people will resort to "feel good" rather than "what is right" in these sort of scenarios while promoting inclusiveness and open-mindness? What is open-mindness when you literally exclude sexists/bigots/racists without even giving opportunity to explain and provide a point, prompting to outright kill-on-sight discussion and rejecting instead? How in the fuck is this open-mindedness and inclusiveness? In big and leading-the-industry spaces why is this even a thing? People must learn to accept different beliefs, work around each others expertise rather than personas. This is disgusting to hear that stating such nicely-argumented claims can literally cost you a job.

[QUOTE=DrTaxi;52545275]It's an [I]anonymous[/I] poll. This does nothing to disprove the claim that expressing these opinions gets you shunned or worse. A poll titled "PC Considered Harmful" may not be entirely unbiased in what sort of respondents it attracts.[/QUOTE] or maybe the more likely answer is that conservatives have victim complexes and want to desperately believe everyone is out to get them.

[QUOTE=DrTaxi;52545275]It's an [I]anonymous[/I] poll. This does nothing to disprove the claim that expressing these opinions gets you shunned or worse.[/QUOTE] Also has 282 responses, not really the most thorough poll

[QUOTE=CruelAddict;52545296]Companys policies may differ from employees' personal views and beliefs. What mostly makes me outright hate political correctness and """"deeeeveeersity"""" is that, mainly two points: A) the "If you do not agree, then you are wrong, get out, end of story". B) Employing people for their color / gender / whatever semi-arbitrary point is. It has been long witnessed that people will resort to "feel good" rather than "what is right" in these sort of scenarios while promoting inclusiveness and open-mindness? What is open-mindness when you literally exclude sexists/bigots/racists without even giving opportunity to explain and provide a point, prompting to outright kill-on-sight discussion and rejecting instead? How in the fuck is this open-mindedness and inclusiveness? In big and leading-the-industry spaces why is this even a thing? People must learn to accept different beliefs, work around each others expertise rather than personas. This is disgusting to hear that stating such nicely-argumented claims can literally cost you a job.[/QUOTE] excluding sexism, bigotry and racism is literally part of inclusivity you fucking bellend. would you advocate allowing active child rapists into kindergardens? no? must LGBT rights groups coddle homophobic or transphobic hate preachers? must minority racial groups allow white supremacists into their ranks? [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - Mezzokoko))[/highlight]